gvfs-smb

[DL Neil]

Jayson,


> My company was previously 100% Microsoft, and I'm trying to educate
> folks on the beauty of open source. I'm new back to Fedora myself, but
> I chose to come back for many of these same reasons. We started
> implementing Linux servers over time, and now I'm finally showing
> folks that we can use Linux on the desktop. I would hate to shun a new
> or potential new Fedora use because it isn't for "First time users",
> because there is no reason it shouldn't be.
>
> I see the ability to hit samba shares as basic functionality that
> every other Linux distro I've ever used has had out of the box
> (including the Fedora GNOME and KDE spins).
>
> Sorry if I'm missing something here.

The key point Sergio made but you may have missed was "Because some 
people use it and some don't". We don't all have a MSFT shop to support 
(per your "I literally couldn't do my job if I couldn't hit windows 
shares") I know people who work in Unix shops and they prattle-on about 
ZFS. What about mainframers, can they work without SNADS, DB2/Oracle 
interfaces...?

Sorry, but we all have slightly different requirements. Don't forget 
that if your friend had a brand new MS-Windows system (s)he would still 
have to install optional systems components as well as particular 
applications.

"With great power comes great responsibility" -> Having wide choice 
necessitates (?thoughtful) selection!


>> That's why Fedora isn't for first-time users. If he had a minimal experience
>> he would search for samba and could install and run even from the live-CD.

I agree, few Windows users would know that they use "SMB" and 
translating that to "Samba" is a learned behavior.


> Fedora isn't for first time users? I strongly disagree here. Fedora
> surely *can* be for first time users!
> He started with Mint, but wants to use Fedora for some of these reasons:
>
> I use it (I'm the "Linux guy")
> We use CentOS on all of our (growing number of) Linux servers
> I've explained to him how Red Hat (and as a result Fedora) contribute
> heavily upstream and innovate technologies that go into other Linux
> distros.

Like you, my (professional) start in Linux was with RHEL and CentOS 
servers, having earlier experimented with a well-presented boxed-set of 
SuSE Linux (s/w and printed manuals) at home. (showing my age?)

Naturally(?) I moved into CentOS on a desktop and even on a laptop! 
However when I needed more recently-released s/w versions (PHP and MySQL 
IIRC) it seemed the most natural progression was to Fedora rather than 
having to learn the differences with the Debian et-al APT system and DIR 
structure (etc).


I have heard this "not for first-time users" bandied-about. Indeed 
moving between cities one of my first observations about my 'new' LUG is 
that they are a bunch of Ubuntu users. Interestingly (or arrogantly?) it 
made me wonder if they were more a group of enthusiastic amateurs than a 
collection of experienced professionals.


Anyway, you've provoked me to do a bit of reading-around, starting with 
the world's ?authority? Wikipedia 
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fedora_Linux) - nothing said.

'Zonker' has his biases but after moaning about the lack of multimedia 
software installed by default (substitute "SMB" for "multimedia" and 
"Jayson" for "Zonker"?) he did write:

<<<After using the final Fedora 15 for a few days, I've gotten used to 
its quirks and been able to tame it to my liking. So it's suitable for 
use, if you know what you're doing. But it's not perfect or close to 
perfect out of the box for my use, like Linux Mint...

A big problem for Fedora, and for just about any Linux distribution, is 
trying to figure out who the audience is. The design philosophy for the 
default desktop, GNOME 3, seems to focus on new users. The rest of the 
Fedora distribution is aimed at power users and developers. I feel a bit 
of a disconnect there...

Should you try Fedora 15? If you're a power user, definitely. If you're 
a less experienced user, then you might want to try Fedora 15, but not 
on your main computer. I would not recommend using Fedora as a go-to 
Linux distro for friends or family that haven't tried Linux before."
https://www.linux.com/learn/tutorials/450591:fedora-15-and-the-desktop-is-it-ready
 >>>

I have noted that movement to recommend Mint to first-timers or 
MSFT-converts. Sadly my Debian-Mint VM has been downloaded but (like an 
Xubuntu VM) is still on my list of good-intentions...

However, enough of 'some hack's' personal opinions let's go to the 
horse's-mouth - The Fedora 17 Installation Guide says:
<<<
2.2. Audience
This guide is intended for Fedora users of all levels of experience. 
However, it treats the installation process and its many options in far 
greater detail than most novice users are likely to require. You do not 
need to read and understand this entire document to install Fedora on a 
computer. This document is most likely to help experienced users perform 
advanced and unusual installations.
 >>>
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/17/html/Installation_Guide/sn-audience.html

Yes, they support your contention (Jayson) of "all levels". However 
'intention' and 'delivery' can be two quite different things.


Accordingly I kept going and had a quick flip through FedoraProject.org. 
There's a heap of stuff that may be worth your while reading in the 
wiki's Overview (of the Fedora Project) 
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Overview

To me there is a lot of pride in having "the latest". Perhaps other 
distros place their pride in being less inclusive and 'bleeding edge' 
but more on being easy-to-use, looking like the incumbent's desktop, 
installing all the 'bells and whistles', being pretty...

Trouble is, would you say "innovation" is completely, mostly, partly, or 
rarely consistent with "easy" or "first-time user"?


Another point hinted-at there, which you will have followed-up in your 
reading about Xfce, is that there are "spins" of Fedora - some of which 
attempt to reduce the 'weight' of all that ?optional? software that 
*could* be installed by asking *should* it be? Key in there is the idea 
of producing a version of the distro which is a conservative consumer of 
system resources and thus runs more efficiently on all, but specifically 
smaller/older/slower machines, etc...


So to finish, the "Foundations" of Fedora 
(https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Foundations) namely "Freedom", 
"Friends", "Features", "First" do not exclude newcomers, but recognise 
that we are all 'learners' (and perhaps that we are keen to learn 'more'?).


So I haven't found a definitive answer - at least not one with which I 
am happy is both correct and consistent at the 'delivery' end of things. 
Perhaps a better mind than mine?


Back to my observations of my new LUG and Fedora's foundational aspect 
of "Friends": when someone tells me they are ready to try Linux and 
which is "the best distro" (or asks that question on behalf of a friend 
- such as you are doing) my answer is the philosophical but depressing 
"there is no one 'best' distro"!

The 'best' distro is the one your (more Linux-experienced) friends are 
using because when you go wrong (and you will) you will turn to them for 
help - so 'best' to go with what they use!
(until you can stand on your own two feet and make the decision for 
yourself - and thereafter you will realise that it is a moving-target 
and VMs are a really great way of experimenting with 'different distros' 
so as to be able to take the best from the best... blah, blah, blah)


Back to "learned behavior" and 'how am I supposed to know to ask about 
Samba?', etc: if we REALLY wanted to be a distro/Xfce-distro of choice 
for first-time users, surely we would have better low-presumption 
instructions and more 'conversion' documentation?

  --
Regards,
=dn