How can we improve the spin?

Miro Hrončok miro at hroncok.cz
Thu Jun 28 15:05:51 UTC 2012


Hi,
I like this a lot:
http://jaysonr.fedorapeople.org/pictures/xfce_screenshots/f17_alt_d.png

It reminds me Fedora 14:
http://www.linuxexpres.cz/uploads/gallery/original/4846.jpg

Miro Hrončok

Jabber: miro at hroncok.cz
Telefon: +420777974800


2012/6/28 Jayson Rowe <jayson.rowe at gmail.com>:
> What's up everybody.
>
> I've debated this mail for a while - I'm the 'new kid' around these
> parts, but in a short time I've developed quite a passion around
> Fedora, and especially the Xfce spin. I've put some thought and
> research into this, so thanks for humoring me and reading.
>
> As great as our spin is, I know it can be better. In reality anything
> can be better - there should be a constant evolution of improvements.
> I know as Xfce users, we are a smaller niche group from what would use
> the default Desktop spin, or perhaps even the KDE spin. It is true,
> however that Xfce is experiencing a spike in popularity lately.
>
> Now, although I've only recently finally made the full switch back to
> Fedora (I used RHL and Fedora through Core2 before switching) I only
> regret not coming back sooner.
>
> Now to the point at hand, how can we make Fedora's Xfce spin
> first-class. I guess first, we have to define what *is* first class. I
> loaded up different distros with Xfce in VM's and poked around, just
> to see how they looked and felt, and my only real impressions were:
>
> a) many aspects of panel layout/themes are very much personal preference
>
> ---and---
>
> b) sadly, every Xfce 'spin' I tried felt at least somewhat more
> polished than Fedora's out-of-the box presentation in one way or
> another...
>
> There are tons of screenshots on the web, but here are mine from my
> VMs (with my thoughts for each).
>
> Xubuntu: http://jaysonr.fedorapeople.org/pictures/xfce_screenshots/xubuntu_12_04.png
>
> So - looks nice. Greybird is my favorite theme. The wallpaper has been
> the same for at least 2, maybe 3 releases (I think, Charlie Kraviez
> can correct me on this I'm sure as he was one the Xubuntu Project
> Leader).
> I never liked the 'auto-hide' dock...in fact, I generally hate the
> 'extra' Xfce panel anyway. The Icons look nice, all of the icons in
> the system tray match, everything looks smooth, integrated and blends
> together.
>
> Sabayon 9: http://jaysonr.fedorapeople.org/pictures/xfce_screenshots/sabayon_9.png
> Although not really a 'mainstream' distro, I really only loaded it up
> out of curiosity to see what they had done w/ Xfce since most of the
> reviews and stuff online focus on the GNOME and KDE spins of this
> distro. I actually kinda like what they did. A 2 panel layout that
> could easily appeal to GNOME2 refugees, but still different from a
> GNOME2 layout. Again, nice icons, although everything doesn't match as
> nicely as in Xubuntu, still looks pretty polished. The default theme
> is nice (looks to be custom to the distro, perhaps) and the use the
> default Xfce window decorations.
>
> openSUSE 12.2 (Beta):
> In terms of competition for similar user-bases, I would think of
> openSUSE and Fedora to have the two most similar potential user bases.
> I like the single panel layout, although the icons seems stock Xfce,
> they look nicely integrated. The mixer applet on the panel (Gmixer)
> doesn't seem to be in our repos, but the icon for it looks nicer than
> the faded icon w/ the blue half-circles we have w/ the default Xfce
> mixer applet. They are using Adwaita for a GTK theme, and a custom
> window decoration (that seems closely based on the default Xfce
> decorations).
>
> Linux Mint Debian Edition:
> http://jaysonr.fedorapeople.org/pictures/xfce_screenshots/linux_mint_debian_edition.png
> I find the GTK theme a little too 'white' (along w/ the default
> wallpaper), but both the theme and window decorations seem to be
> modified versions of Greybird. Green (aka Mint) icons, but all of the
> icons match, look nicely integrated, and the system tray icons match,
> except for using the same mixer icon we use.\
>
> And now, we all know the default Fedora 17 look:
> http://jaysonr.fedorapeople.org/pictures/xfce_screenshots/f17_default.png
> Here I will point out mainly what I don't like: First, I don't like
> the borders around the clock and notification area...just looks
> unfinished to me. I also wish the Applications Menu icon were the
> Fedora logo. I think the Adwaita theme works well (supports GTK3), but
> the Nodoka window decorations look dated. I hate the mixer icon, but
> like the rest of the 'Fedora' icon set.
>
> This next screenshot is how *I* would improve the look we have now,
> sticking with a same/similar layout:
> http://jaysonr.fedorapeople.org/pictures/xfce_screenshots/f17_alt_a.png
> Changes? The Fedora logo for the Applications Menu, no borders around
> the clock and notification area, and the default Xfce window
> decoration. Before I took this screenshot, I also ugraded to 4.10, and
> added the 'Action Buttons' plugin to the panel.
>
> Next, I simply eliminate a *personal* pet peeve - the second, bigger
> panel that doesn't take up the entire width of the screen. It seems
> wasteful to me (especially with maximized windows). I also reduced the
> top panel to 24px.:
> http://jaysonr.fedorapeople.org/pictures/xfce_screenshots/f17_alt_b.png
>
> The next layout would appeal to GNOME 2 refugees:
> http://jaysonr.fedorapeople.org/pictures/xfce_screenshots/f17_alt_c.png
> A second (24px) panel is added back, and a places applet displaying
> label only is added to the top panel. Reduced the text of the App menu
> button to just display 'Applications'. This layout looks very much
> like GNOME2 (to me anyway).
>
> Next, is a layout similar to what openSUSE had:
> http://jaysonr.fedorapeople.org/pictures/xfce_screenshots/f17_alt_d.png
> A single bottom panel, 24px.
>
> Finally, is basically what I'm using:
> http://jaysonr.fedorapeople.org/pictures/xfce_screenshots/f17_alt_e.png
> It's the same as the last layout, but using Greybird and the
> Elementary icon theme. For my personal use, I'm still a little torn
> between this and Adwaita, however I think the Elementary icon theme
> looks SO much nicer, even that ugly mixer icon is fixed ;-) It just
> looks more polished and integrated. I know everyone doesn't like the
> darker grey panel look/menus etc...
>
> So...now that I've said all of that what do you think? Like I said, I
> was torn about jumping in as a new guy with suggestions, but I figured
> why not...the worst y'all could do is say 'go away, your bothering
> me'...so I did it.
> Other thoughts I've had is, what other things do we do as a 'SIG'. I
> noticed an e-mail from Rex Dieter to fedora-devel speaking of a KDE
> SIG meeting - have we as a SIG ever had IRC meetings? Would there be
> any value? Would anyone attend? Since I'm just now jumping in, has
> there been other recent discussion I've missed about plans for F18? I
> know Kevin has spoken of moving to LightDM, and has included Greybird
> as being installed by default in the spin for F18.
>
> I'm not looking to ruffle feathers, just get discussion going and make
> Fedora 18's Xfce spin even more awesome.
>
> Thanks for reading!
> Jayson
> --
> -jayson
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