9:33 p.m.
Having a formal role description is preferable as it helps set the level of
expectation for anyone, wether it is,a volunteering or paid position. It
also create boundaries and healthy relationship between teams.
In my role as the IBM chair for our diversity council it was more like a
passion that was ignited by our purpose of humanity aligned with our
conpany's goals.
Thoughts?
Tsegga Siyoum Medhin
On Jul 3, 2015 8:00 AM, <diversity-request(a)lists.fedoraproject.org> wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: First complaint (Spencer Hunley)
2. Re: First complaint (María Leandro)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2015 12:59:07 -0500
From: Spencer Hunley <spencer.hunley(a)gmail.com>
To: diversity(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
Subject: Re: First complaint
Message-ID:
<
CAAP4PmqZe08KGbwKpUVZo-+fw-c124iwnko0vXgiccX3BLzw_Q(a)mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I disagree. Just because it's an unpaid volunteer position doesn't mean
expectations should be low. Diversity is a problem in the tech world in
general, and despite recent efforts, is still one in the Linux community -
regardless of distribution.
Bringing someone on board for this position who would be ineffective,
unfamiliar with the duties of the role, and unable to meet the requirements
listed would make the role irrelevant and hamper efforts to increase
diversity and equality to the community.
By pushing such formality, it gets rid of the cruft - those who would
merely use the position as a title, those who would use the position for
their own gain, etc. - and sets a tone of professional understanding,
putting anyone who applies on notice that there is serious efforts behind
the creation of this opening.
I know it limits prospects; I am aware that it might be confusing. But
anyone who is confused may not be familiar with Fedora, and that lack of
understanding and knowledge would be a problem The Diversity Advisor would
be working with very sensitive, sometimes hot-button issues with a wide
variety of people whose sexual orientations, racial/cultural backgrounds,
abilities/disabilities, self-identification, etc. must be respected and
recognized in a professional manner. Fedora needs someone who can do that,
and hopefully someone who has proven that as well.
My apologies for the rant - TL;DR I think the professional look and process
is definitely worth it, and will lead to better candidates and a more
progressive and diverse community, and could hopefully be a template for
other distributions and companies as well.
- Spencer
Spencer Hunley <http://about.me/spencerhunley>
(816) 866-0847
On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 12:37 PM, María Leandro <tatica(a)fedoraproject.org>
wrote:
> As I mention at some of the meetings I went when talking about the role,
> creating a position with so much formality is why people will consider
it
> a job, when it's clearly not. Don't want to say that formality is bad,
just
> that it's out of scope to post a job description for what is just a
> communitary roll.
>
> Do we have a job description for FAmSCo, FESCo or the Board? Sometimes,
> keeping things simple can be less confusing.
>
> Easy way to go with is just to appoint someone and start working, and in
a
> year or two make an election to select someone else or go with the same
> person again. Posting formal request like this create hiring expectations
> between the community members.
>
>
> 2015-07-02 11:43 GMT-04:30 Máirín Duffy <duffy(a)redhat.com>:
>
>>
>>
>> On 07/02/2015 11:45 AM, Marina Zhurakhinskaya wrote:
>>
>>> I would underscore that this is a position on the Fedora Council, which
>>> is part of Fedora community governance.
>>>
>>> Reliance on volunteering or unpaid work is one of the reasons there are
>>> fewer people from minority backgrounds, who have less leisure time, in
open
>>> source, so I wouldn't offer the value of volunteering as an
explanation in
>>> this context.
>>>
>>
>> The argument implicitly being posed here, whether intended by anyone
>> involved or not, is this:
>>
>> Is it better to have no role at all than an unpaid one?
>>
>> Those are the two options right now.
>>
>>
>>
>> ~m
>> _______________________________________________
>> diversity mailing list
>> diversity(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity
>>
>
>
>
> --
> tatica
> Maria Gracia Leandro
> http://www.tatica.org
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:tatica
> LinuxUser= 440285 GPG Public Key: E1CDCC56
>
> _______________________________________________
> diversity mailing list
> diversity(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity
>
>
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2015 13:38:54 -0430
From: María Leandro <tatica(a)fedoraproject.org>
To: diversity(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
Subject: Re: First complaint
Message-ID:
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e34R3NU1gefQ6NivEgGNFWJyQ(a)mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I didn't said expectations to be low, at all... I just said that other
groups such as FAmSCo and FESCo don't require such formality and yet, the
job is done and with high quality.
We already have people who work with those groups, they are called
"Ambassadors". What should be seek is someone who can bring those groups
together and make them coexist with their differences without starting a
flame.
2015-07-02 13:29 GMT-04:30 Spencer Hunley <spencer.hunley(a)gmail.com>:
> I disagree. Just because it's an unpaid volunteer position doesn't mean
> expectations should be low. Diversity is a problem in the tech world in
> general, and despite recent efforts, is still one in the Linux community
-
> regardless of distribution.
> Bringing someone on board for this position who would be ineffective,
> unfamiliar with the duties of the role, and unable to meet the
requirements
> listed would make the role irrelevant and hamper efforts to increase
> diversity and equality to the community.
> By pushing such formality, it gets rid of the cruft - those who would
> merely use the position as a title, those who would use the position for
> their own gain, etc. - and sets a tone of professional understanding,
> putting anyone who applies on notice that there is serious efforts behind
> the creation of this opening.
>
> I know it limits prospects; I am aware that it might be confusing. But
> anyone who is confused may not be familiar with Fedora, and that lack of
> understanding and knowledge would be a problem The Diversity Advisor
would
> be working with very sensitive, sometimes hot-button issues with a wide
> variety of people whose sexual orientations, racial/cultural backgrounds,
> abilities/disabilities, self-identification, etc. must be respected and
> recognized in a professional manner. Fedora needs someone who can do
that,
> and hopefully someone who has proven that as well.
>
> My apologies for the rant - TL;DR I think the professional look and
> process is definitely worth it, and will lead to better candidates and a
> more progressive and diverse community, and could hopefully be a template
> for other distributions and companies as well.
>
> - Spencer
>
>
> Spencer Hunley <http://about.me/spencerhunley>
> (816) 866-0847
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 12:37 PM, María Leandro <tatica(a)fedoraproject.org
>
> wrote:
>
>> As I mention at some of the meetings I went when talking about the role,
>> creating a position with so much formality is why people will consider
it
>> a job, when it's clearly not. Don't want to say that formality is bad,
just
>> that it's out of scope to post a job description for what is just a
>> communitary roll.
>>
>> Do we have a job description for FAmSCo, FESCo or the Board? Sometimes,
>> keeping things simple can be less confusing.
>>
>> Easy way to go with is just to appoint someone and start working, and in
>> a year or two make an election to select someone else or go with the
same
>> person again. Posting formal request like this create hiring
expectations
>> between the community members.
>>
>>
>> 2015-07-02 11:43 GMT-04:30 Máirín Duffy <duffy(a)redhat.com>:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 07/02/2015 11:45 AM, Marina Zhurakhinskaya wrote:
>>>
>>>> I would underscore that this is a position on the Fedora Council,
which
>>>> is part of Fedora community governance.
>>>>
>>>> Reliance on volunteering or unpaid work is one of the reasons there
are
>>>> fewer people from minority backgrounds, who have less leisure time,
in open
>>>> source, so I wouldn't offer the value of volunteering as an
explanation in
>>>> this context.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The argument implicitly being posed here, whether intended by anyone
>>> involved or not, is this:
>>>
>>> Is it better to have no role at all than an unpaid one?
>>>
>>> Those are the two options right now.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ~m
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> diversity mailing list
>>> diversity(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>>> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> tatica
>> Maria Gracia Leandro
>> http://www.tatica.org
>> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:tatica
>> LinuxUser= 440285 GPG Public Key: E1CDCC56
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> diversity mailing list
>> diversity(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> diversity mailing list
> diversity(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/diversity
>
>
--
tatica
Maria Gracia Leandro
http://www.tatica.org
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:tatica
LinuxUser= 440285 GPG Public Key: E1CDCC56
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