initscripts

[Dan Williams]

On Tue, 2015-01-27 at 20:56 +0100, Reindl Harald wrote:
> 
> Am 27.01.2015 um 20:50 schrieb Nico Kadel-Garcia:
> > On Sun, Jan 25, 2015 at 12:40 PM, Adam Williamson
> > <adamwill at fedoraproject.org> wrote:
> >> On Sun, 2015-01-25 at 08:49 -0500, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
> >>
> >>> * KVM bridge configuration
> >>
> >> Works fine in F21+, I'm using NM on both my main desktop/test box and
> >> my server VM host.
> >
> > Testing now on a VM, with the Fedora 21 Workstation. Getting the gui's
> > to work after installation with the "Server" installation ISO than I
> > could spend, even after I brought in enough debris to get a GUI
> > screen.
> >
> > I'll also point out that with either installation, it's unusably slow,
> > it's unusably slow as a VM on a 2 GHz server with a pretty good ATI
> > video card and 2 Gig of RAM allocated, so that makes testing awkward
> > for me. I can switch window managers to something remotely sane, but
> > then I lose the complex integration that makes the NetworkManager
> > configuration utilities available.
> >
> > The modern anaconda tools and NetworkManager do indeed have access to
> > installation time configuration of tagged VLAN's and pair bonding,
> > although the interface is quite poor. Please refer to Eric Raymond's
> > old essay on "The Luxury of Ignorance" for guidelines on why it is so
> > poor, the lack of display of "what am I going to change from the
> > current status" is merely one of its many issues, and the lack of a
> > usable 'Help' key is pretty serious.
> >
> > Bridges for KVM are not supported. What is apparent is that
> > NetworkManager supports 'DCB', data center bridging. That's a
> > different technology. And that puts us right into one of the
> > guidelines Eric added to his essay as a postscript:
> >
> >           Are there settings you can do from the command line or
> > hand-editing config files that cannot be done from the GUI? Are they
> > documented anywhere? Does using the GUI erase these settings?
> >
> > I have to admit that I remain pretty unhappy with NetworkManager. It's
> > a complex GUI on top of the underlying actual iinit scrupts, it
> > doesn't do a good job of exposing the available options and there's no
> > usable 'help' interface. Altogether, I'm afraid I have to classify it
> > as a "bad tool" and recommend strongly against it for producton use.
> > It's also partly why I try to put 'NM_CONTROLLED=no' in every
> > /etc/sysconfig/network for servers that I work with
> 
> signed!
> 
> and the main point is: there is no need to replace network.service on 
> *any* static configured machine and nobody with responsibility for 
> complex networks right in his mind is playing games if he is running a 
> magnitude of machines, all similar configured, all with differnt jobs 
> and a mix of Fedora/RHEL5,6,7
> 
> that won't change for many years
> 
> there is a usecase for NM, surely, but not for me and not for a lot of 
> other people working professional in serious setups and tend to 
> configure personal workstations left and right as much as possible ike 
> the production environment
> 
> frankly i have enough of "change for the sake of change" as well i won't 
> use notebooks or other "mobile devices" for serious tasks for the rest 
> of my life - period

NetworkManager is not intended only for mobile devices or notebooks,
because that's a small part of the networking story.  Plus, more than
just notebooks have needs for the things that NetworkManager brings to
the table.

If it's useful for you, that's great.  If you do not find it useful,
that's also fine, and it can be masked.  However, we have put great
effort into NM so that even if it *is* enabled, it can coexist
peacefully with whatever you do on the system outside of NM, and we are
constantly improving this.

We hope that NM can be installed on most systems, and will be there when
required and useful, but will get out of the way when not required.

Dan