[Fedora-music-list] music Digest, Vol 48, Issue 17
William Blackburn
bill_- at hotmail.com
Thu Apr 28 12:24:01 UTC 2011
> From: music-request at lists.fedoraproject.org
> Subject: music Digest, Vol 48, Issue 17
> To: music at lists.fedoraproject.org
> Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 12:00:17 +0000
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: kernel I use for music production (David Timms)
> 2. Looking to get involved (William Blackburn)
> 3. Re: Looking to get involved (David Timms)
> 4. Re: Looking to get involved (adam at linkedlistcorruption.com)
> 5. Re: Looking to get involved (Fernando Lopez-Lezcano)
> 6. Re: kernel I use for music production (Fernando Lopez-Lezcano)
> 7. Re: Looking to get involved (Orcan Ogetbil)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 22:54:45 +1000
> From: David Timms <dtimms at iinet.net.au>
> Subject: Re: [Fedora-music-list] kernel I use for music production
> To: music at lists.fedoraproject.org
> Message-ID: <4DB81215.9040807 at iinet.net.au>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 27/04/11 01:53, William Blackburn wrote:
> >
> > Hello, I want to share something with the music community. I have
> > been using the stock 2.6.38.4 kernel with the "ck" patch and have had
> > nothing but great results with it. No X-runs or anything. If anyone
> > is interested, feel free to ask me some questions about it.
>
> Are you saying patch and build ?
>
> What problems were you having with standard Fedora 15 kernel ?
>
> Is this with a slower or single core machine ?
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 14:08:28 +0000
> From: William Blackburn <bill_- at hotmail.com>
> Subject: [Fedora-music-list] Looking to get involved
> To: <music at lists.fedoraproject.org>
> Message-ID: <SNT133-w2589D123B7F372F49C9D39B6980 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> Hello, you guys have most likely seen me on this before when I was
> asking questions about something. However, I have been using Fedora
> for a while now and I would like begin to get involved with the music
> community. I am looking to maybe learn how to package things or to do
> anything that would help out. Basically, I want to be part of the
> team.
>
> I wrote a wiki in the past but it has since been obsoleted.
> This is the link.
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Tertl3/real-time
>
> What could I do to help out?
>
> Thanks a lot everyone!
>
> Bill Blackburn (tertl3 on IRC)
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 07:54:13 +1000
> From: David Timms <dtimms at iinet.net.au>
> Subject: Re: [Fedora-music-list] Looking to get involved
> To: music at lists.fedoraproject.org
> Message-ID: <4DB89085.9080205 at iinet.net.au>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 28/04/11 00:08, William Blackburn wrote:
> > What could I do to help out?
> 1. Testing of new or updated packages:
> eg: audacity - building at the moment for f14,15, available for rawhide:
> http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/packageinfo?packageID=1352
>
> Specifically, note which functions of the app you have taken for a spin,
> and had success with. This makes it easier for others to try something
> that you haven't.
>
> 2. take a CCRMA (or other upstream application) package, update to
> fedora guidelines and current version, and submit for fedora review:
> http://ccrma.stanford.edu/planetccrma/mirror/fedora/linux/planetccrma/14/SRPMS/
>
> Choose especially apps that you might actually use, since you will be
> long term primary maintainer.
>
> 3. work on Music Spin
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Music_Creation_Lite_Spin
> see the discussion section for an initial review, and hence work to be done.
>
> 4. As a group, we probably also need a goals list. The wiki is a good
> place to put ideas, and a bit of mail list or IRC discussion could help
> to determine priorities, and be able to indicate that you would like to
> work on a specific item.
>
> David.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 18:29:28 -0400 (EDT)
> From: adam at linkedlistcorruption.com
> Subject: Re: [Fedora-music-list] Looking to get involved
> To: "David Timms" <dtimms at iinet.net.au>
> Cc: music at lists.fedoraproject.org
> Message-ID: <1303943368.308523673 at webmail.linkedlistcorruption.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=UTF-8
>
> The single biggest thing that Fedora needs is a realtime kernel in the base repo. All the music packages in the world wont matter if running JACK at lowest latency requires building your own kernel. When I use Fedora for audio that's what I have to do - build my own kernel from upstream source.
>
> Building the real time kernel is the easy part. Navigating the Fedora project's labyrinthine structure and packaging requirements are the hard part.
>
> If you know anything about RPM packaging and/or getting packages into Fedora I would highly encourage you to look into this. Fedora has plenty of nice packages, but it has no kernel capable of running them at ultra low latency. I will do anything I can to help you. Without an easy to install realtime kernel built from upstream (not a patched version of the Fedora kernel) I can't recommend Fedora to people for audio work. If Fedora did have a realtime kernel in the base repos it would make it one of the most attractive distros for audio work.
>
> A
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "David Timms" <dtimms at iinet.net.au>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 5:54pm
> To: music at lists.fedoraproject.org
> Subject: Re: [Fedora-music-list] Looking to get involved
>
> On 28/04/11 00:08, William Blackburn wrote:
> > What could I do to help out?
> 1. Testing of new or updated packages:
> eg: audacity - building at the moment for f14,15, available for rawhide:
> http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/packageinfo?packageID=1352
>
> Specifically, note which functions of the app you have taken for a spin,
> and had success with. This makes it easier for others to try something
> that you haven't.
>
> 2. take a CCRMA (or other upstream application) package, update to
> fedora guidelines and current version, and submit for fedora review:
> http://ccrma.stanford.edu/planetccrma/mirror/fedora/linux/planetccrma/14/SRPMS/
>
> Choose especially apps that you might actually use, since you will be
> long term primary maintainer.
>
> 3. work on Music Spin
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Music_Creation_Lite_Spin
> see the discussion section for an initial review, and hence work to be done.
>
> 4. As a group, we probably also need a goals list. The wiki is a good
> place to put ideas, and a bit of mail list or IRC discussion could help
> to determine priorities, and be able to indicate that you would like to
> work on a specific item.
>
> David.
> _______________________________________________
> music mailing list
> music at lists.fedoraproject.org
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/music
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 16:09:31 -0700
> From: Fernando Lopez-Lezcano <nando at ccrma.Stanford.EDU>
> Subject: Re: [Fedora-music-list] Looking to get involved
> To: adam at linkedlistcorruption.com
> Cc: music at lists.fedoraproject.org
> Message-ID: <4DB8A22B.70003 at localhost>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 04/27/2011 03:29 PM, adam at linkedlistcorruption.com wrote:
> > The single biggest thing that Fedora needs is a realtime kernel in the base repo.
>
> Oh yeah.... I would love that!
>
> > All the music packages in the world wont matter if running JACK at
> lowest latency requires building your own kernel. When I use Fedora for
> audio that's what I have to do - build my own kernel from upstream source.
>
> Any particular reason you don't use the rt patched kernels I build for
> Planet CCRMA? (apart from not wanting to use a non-Fedora repository, of
> course). Just curious...
>
> > Building the real time kernel is the easy part. Navigating the Fedora project's labyrinthine structure and packaging requirements are the hard part.
>
> Yes, packaging an rt kernel is not easy, at least when you start... I've
> been doing that since 2001 (sigh!).
>
> Last time the subject of "rt kernels into Fedora" came up (2008 I
> believe), there was no interest from Fedora or RedHat into getting a
> second kernel into their repositories - and the question had already
> been asked two years or so before _that_. I could try to dig up the
> thread. Maybe things have changed, but I don't hold much hope till the
> issue is forced by rt getting into upstream (real soon now? :-). And
> then the big discussion will be "should we enable this in the build - it
> will break things!"?
>
> I don't see how Fedora would manage two kernels with the support issues
> that would surface specially since today the latest "official" rt
> patches are for 2.6.33 (I'm testing a forward port to 2.6.34 that
> appeared in the rt mailing list, but that is still old).
>
> -- Fernando
>
>
> > If you know anything about RPM packaging and/or getting packages into Fedora I would highly encourage you to look into this. Fedora has plenty of nice packages, but it has no kernel capable of running them at ultra low latency. I will do anything I can to help you. Without an easy to install realtime kernel built from upstream (not a patched version of the Fedora kernel) I can't recommend Fedora to people for audio work. If Fedora did have a realtime kernel in the base repos it would make it one of the most attractive distros for audio work.
> >
> > A
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: "David Timms"<dtimms at iinet.net.au>
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 5:54pm
> > To: music at lists.fedoraproject.org
> > Subject: Re: [Fedora-music-list] Looking to get involved
> >
> > On 28/04/11 00:08, William Blackburn wrote:
> >> What could I do to help out?
> > 1. Testing of new or updated packages:
> > eg: audacity - building at the moment for f14,15, available for rawhide:
> > http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/packageinfo?packageID=1352
> >
> > Specifically, note which functions of the app you have taken for a spin,
> > and had success with. This makes it easier for others to try something
> > that you haven't.
> >
> > 2. take a CCRMA (or other upstream application) package, update to
> > fedora guidelines and current version, and submit for fedora review:
> > http://ccrma.stanford.edu/planetccrma/mirror/fedora/linux/planetccrma/14/SRPMS/
> >
> > Choose especially apps that you might actually use, since you will be
> > long term primary maintainer.
> >
> > 3. work on Music Spin
> > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Music_Creation_Lite_Spin
> > see the discussion section for an initial review, and hence work to be done.
> >
> > 4. As a group, we probably also need a goals list. The wiki is a good
> > place to put ideas, and a bit of mail list or IRC discussion could help
> > to determine priorities, and be able to indicate that you would like to
> > work on a specific item.
> >
> > David.
> > _______________________________________________
> > music mailing list
> > music at lists.fedoraproject.org
> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/music
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > music mailing list
> > music at lists.fedoraproject.org
> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/music
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 18:46:07 -0700
> From: Fernando Lopez-Lezcano <nando at ccrma.Stanford.EDU>
> Subject: Re: [Fedora-music-list] kernel I use for music production
> To: William Blackburn <bill_- at hotmail.com>
> Cc: music at lists.fedoraproject.org
> Message-ID: <4DB8C6DF.3060100 at localhost>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 04/26/2011 08:53 AM, William Blackburn wrote:
> > Hello, I want to share something with the music community. I have been
> > using the stock 2.6.38.4 kernel with the "ck" patch and have had nothing
> > but great results with it. No X-runs or anything. If anyone is
> > interested, feel free to ask me some questions about it. If you are on
> > Fedora 15 it might be a good options since I don't think CCRMA has a
> > rt-kernel for Fedora 15 yet.
>
> As Fedora 15 does not exist yet...
>
> > I can tell you how I went about installing
> > the patched kernel if you need. The patch also is said to speed up basic
> > responsiveness, but this subject is up for debate.
>
> A little bit more information would be great. What applications do you
> use? Are you running jack for them? With what parameters? (ie: frames
> per period, periods per buffer, sampling rate, etc). What soundcard do
> you use? Are you really loading the machine when testing?
>
> And with the same conditions what kind of problem did you see in the
> regular Fedora 15 kernel?
>
> -- Fernando
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 22:05:09 -0400
> From: Orcan Ogetbil <oget.fedora at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Fedora-music-list] Looking to get involved
> To: music at lists.fedoraproject.org
> Message-ID: <BANLkTikhFrB1w_Udu9DseZEZE4TK9P4M1w at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 5:54 PM, David Timms wrote:
> > On 28/04/11 00:08, William Blackburn wrote:
> >> What could I do to help out?
> >
> > 2. take a CCRMA (or other upstream application) package, update to
> > fedora guidelines and current version, and submit for fedora review:
> > http://ccrma.stanford.edu/planetccrma/mirror/fedora/linux/planetccrma/14/SRPMS/
> >
> > Choose especially apps that you might actually use, since you will be
> > long term primary maintainer.
> >
>
> If you happen to choose this path, this is where you start:
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackageMaintainers/Join
>
> You may want to build up some bash skills if you don't feel absolutely
> comfortable with it. I recommend the following tutorial:
> http://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashGuide
>
> In addition to adding new packages to our repertoire, we also need
> help with the existing packages.
>
> If you follow the instructions to become a packager, you will come to
> a stage where you need to find a sponsor. Let me know if/when that
> happens.
>
> Cheers,
> Orcan
> > > A little bit more information would be great. What applications do you > use? Are you running jack for them? With what parameters? (ie: frames > per period, periods per buffer, sampling rate, etc). What soundcard do > you use? Are you really loading the machine when testing?> > And with the same conditions what kind of problem did you see in the > regular Fedora 15 kernel?> > -- Fernando
Fernando,
I usually try to get 5ms or less of latency with 41000 smaple rate and 64 frames/period and 2 periods/buffer.I do use JACK and I usually limit my self to use JACK as a guitar effects processor. I think it will also work fine with a recording app like qtractor as well. Actaully I was getting super low latency with the liunxDSP reverb effect. About 1.667ms believe it or not :) Here is a link to the patch and the kernel to patch against http://users.on.net/~ckolivas/kernel/. I think this is a better alternative b/c it does not require any c group privileges. Please feel free to try it and let me know what you thought. The maintainer of the patch can be found on OFTC at #ck. Btw I get freezes with the ccrma F14 kerenel-rt. Is this normal?
Cheers guys,
Bill
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> music mailing list
> music at lists.fedoraproject.org
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/music
>
> End of music Digest, Vol 48, Issue 17
> *************************************
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