fedup f20->f21 kde broken deps

[Adam Williamson]

On Fri, 2014-12-05 at 00:09 +0100, Michael Schwendt wrote:

> > It happens. Building software is hard.
> 
> That's all you add here? Seriously?

Yes, because I don't really think this is going anywhere. If you really
want to see a change here, draft up a comprehensive proposal to change
the updates policy, with consideration of *all* its impacts, and run it
by devel@ and FESCo (who are in charge of that policy).

Example: docker-io-1.3.2-2.fc20, a CVE fix, is broken, DOA. Any earlier
build is insecure. docker-io-1.3.2-4.fc20 works fine. However, we have
docker-io-1.3.2-2.fc21 in F21 stable (as far as I've been able to tell
it works fine on F21, but it's really irrelevant as F21 is hard frozen),
which is frozen for release. Do we not ship docker-io-1.3.2-4.fc20 to
F20 now? And if you want to allow exceptions for CVEs, how do we do that
without excessive bureaucracy and without just allowing packagers to use
their discretion, which is what we do already anyway?

> > The updates policy places a degree of trust in maintainers to know what
> > an appropriate update policy for their packages is.
> 
> For mass-updates to multiple dist releases, you need help from an updates
> system and an enforced upgradepath check. Or else you could never enable
> karma based automatic pushes.

It's this kind of 'never' thing that is tiring me out and maybe making
me snippy. Yes, you can. We do. It works. People use Fedora. It works.
Nothing explodes. I've got a dozen systems on the damn thing, and no, I
don't tend them obsessively. My servers all run Fedora and update with
cron scripts. They work. I've upgraded them all from F15 or so up to
F19-F20, with yum and fedup. They work.

So I tend to be just inherently cynical about proposals which seem to be
a) based on the idea that everything is terrible, terribly, utterly
broken right now and b) don't seem to consider the *good* things about
the current situation as well as the *bad* ones. If you consider both
the good and bad things about a change proposal, but only the bad things
about the current situation, almost any change is going to look good,
but it's a bad way of considering things.
-- 
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net
http://www.happyassassin.net