Task::Kensho from Enlightened Perl

[Gabor Szabo]

Hi,

you might know that there is a relatively new organization called
Enlightened Perl
http://www.enlightenedperl.org/
One of their projects is to create a CPAN module called Task::Kensho
http://search.cpan.org/dist/Task-Kensho/ with the sole purpose of setting the
dependencies to a list of highly recommended modules.

After seeing the post of Dave Cross http://use.perl.org/~davorg/journal/38730
about building rpms from all the modules I thought it might be a good
target for the Fedora Perl maintainers as well to turn those packages to be
official Fedora and then maybe Red Hat packages.

So I'd like to ask you to add Task::Kensho to the list of perl
packages you include in Fedora. Satisfying all of the dependencies
will bring a nice subset of CPAN to the Fedora users.

regards
  Gabor

[Dave Cross]

Gabor Szabo wrote:
>  Hi,
>  
>  you might know that there is a relatively new organization called
>  Enlightened Perl
>  http://www.enlightenedperl.org/
>  One of their projects is to create a CPAN module called Task::Kensho
>  http://search.cpan.org/dist/Task-Kensho/ with the sole purpose of setting the
>  dependencies to a list of highly recommended modules.
>  
>  After seeing the post of Dave Cross http://use.perl.org/~davorg/journal/38730
>  about building rpms from all the modules I thought it might be a good
>  target for the Fedora Perl maintainers as well to turn those packages to be
>  official Fedora and then maybe Red Hat packages.
>  
>  So I'd like to ask you to add Task::Kensho to the list of perl
>  packages you include in Fedora. Satisfying all of the dependencies
>  will bring a nice subset of CPAN to the Fedora users. 
One of the points I made in my post was that I've already build RPMs for 
all of the Kensho modules (or, at least, the ones that aren't already in 
the Fedora repositories). So if you wanted to move them into the Fedora 
project you could grab them from http://rpm.mag-sol.com/.

One interesting point that was thrown up by this little project. I built 
the spec file for perl-Task-Kensho using cpanspec. But cpanspec doesn't 
seem to recognise the Module::Install syntax for declaring dependencies 
(see, for example [1]) so I had to add the 'Requires' statements 
manually. With more and more CPAN authors moving to Module::Install, it 
would be good if cpanspec could be enhanced to support this syntax.

Cheers,

Dave...

[1] http://cpansearch.perl.org/src/PERIGRIN/Task-Kensho-0.0.8/Makefile.PL

[Chris Weyl]

On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 4:37 AM, Dave Cross <dave(a)dave.org.uk&gt; wrote:

>  Gabor Szabo wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > you might know that there is a relatively new organization called
> > Enlightened Perl
> > http://www.enlightenedperl.org/
> > One of their projects is to create a CPAN module called Task::Kensho
> > http://search.cpan.org/dist/Task-Kensho/ with the sole purpose of setting
> > the
> > dependencies to a list of highly recommended modules.
> >
> > After seeing the post of Dave Cross
> >
> http://use.perl.org/~davorg/journal/38730<http://use.perl.org/%7Edavor...
> > about building rpms from all the modules I thought it might be a good
> > target for the Fedora Perl maintainers as well to turn those packages to
> > be
> > official Fedora and then maybe Red Hat packages.
> >
> > So I'd like to ask you to add Task::Kensho to the list of perl
> > packages you include in Fedora. Satisfying all of the dependencies
> > will bring a nice subset of CPAN to the Fedora users.
> >
>
>  One of the points I made in my post was that I've already build RPMs for
>  all of the Kensho modules (or, at least, the ones that aren't already in the
>  Fedora repositories). So if you wanted to move them into the Fedora project
>  you could grab them from http://rpm.mag-sol.com/.
>
>  One interesting point that was thrown up by this little project. I built
>  the spec file for perl-Task-Kensho using cpanspec. But cpanspec doesn't seem
>  to recognise the Module::Install syntax for declaring dependencies (see, for
>  example [1]) so I had to add the 'Requires' statements manually. With more
>  and more CPAN authors moving to Module::Install, it would be good if
>  cpanspec could be enhanced to support this syntax.
>  
I'm actually working on CPANPLUS::Dist::RPM to handle some of that...  Turns
out the way CPANPLUS::Dist works it tends to hurt my head, so between that
and the Real Job lately it hasn't been going as quickly as I'd like.  Also,
the rpm autoprov/req scripts in Fedora won't pick up deps declared in
Makefile.PL/META.yml; you've probably seen the specfile for Task::Catalyst
already but I ended up just dual-declaring the deps in there.

One of the things I want to do is start leveraging META.yml wherever
possible.  While this is still relatively new, most of the build systems
(EU::MM, M::I, etc) seem to have decent, if varying, support for it.
Leveraging META.yml would make life alot easier, both for creating
specs/rpms, as well as for updating existing spec files....  Especially for
most of the more active modules out there (I'm thinking Catalyst/Mo*se
here), which all tend to leverage Module::Install.

                              -Chris
-- 
Chris Weyl
Ex astris, scientia

[Chris Weyl]

On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 4:37 AM, Dave Cross <dave(a)dave.org.uk&gt; wrote:

>  Gabor Szabo wrote:
>
> > So I'd like to ask you to add Task::Kensho to the list of perl
> > packages you include in Fedora. Satisfying all of the dependencies
> > will bring a nice subset of CPAN to the Fedora users.
> >
>
>  One of the points I made in my post was that I've already build RPMs for
>  all of the Kensho modules (or, at least, the ones that aren't already in the
>  Fedora repositories). So if you wanted to move them into the Fedora project
>  you could grab them from http://rpm.mag-sol.com/.
>  
Another thing I didn't mention...  If you (or anyone, really) wants to
submit these packages, I'll help review them.

                                      -Chris
-- 
Chris Weyl
Ex astris, scientia

[Dave Cross]

Chris Weyl wrote:
>  On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 4:37 AM, Dave Cross <dave(a)dave.org.uk&gt;
> wrote:
>  
> > Gabor Szabo wrote:
> >
> >> So I'd like to ask you to add Task::Kensho to the list of perl
> >> packages you include in Fedora. Satisfying all of the dependencies
> >> will bring a nice subset of CPAN to the Fedora users.
> >>
> > One of the points I made in my post was that I've already build RPMs for
> > all of the Kensho modules (or, at least, the ones that aren't already in the
> > Fedora repositories). So if you wanted to move them into the Fedora project
> > you could grab them from http://rpm.mag-sol.com/.
> >
>  
>  Another thing I didn't mention...  If you (or anyone, really) wants to
>  submit these packages, I'll help review them. 
What advantage would that give? The RPMs are are already available for
anyone who wants them. I'm not sure why they need another level of
validation.

Eventually, my plan is to monitor CPAN and to automatically rebuild
modules as they are uploaded. I'm also going to make them available at
http://rpm.pkgs.cpan.org/. I don't really see any need for this to be
part of the Fedora project (particularly as I build RPMs for Centos too).

Cheers,

Dave...

[Chris Weyl]

On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 1:13 AM, Dave Cross <dave(a)dave.org.uk&gt; wrote:

>  Chris Weyl wrote:
>  > On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 4:37 AM, Dave Cross <dave(a)dave.org.uk&gt; wrote:
>  >
>  >> Gabor Szabo wrote:
>  >>
>  >>> So I'd like to ask you to add Task::Kensho to the list of perl
>  >>> packages you include in Fedora. Satisfying all of the dependencies
>  >>> will bring a nice subset of CPAN to the Fedora users.
>  >>>
>  >> One of the points I made in my post was that I've already build RPMs for
>  >> all of the Kensho modules (or, at least, the ones that aren't already in
>  the
>  >> Fedora repositories). So if you wanted to move them into the Fedora
>  project
>  >> you could grab them from http://rpm.mag-sol.com/.
>  >>
>  >
>  > Another thing I didn't mention...  If you (or anyone, really) wants to
>  > submit these packages, I'll help review them.
>
>  What advantage would that give? The RPMs are are already available for
>  anyone who wants them. I'm not sure why they need another level of
>  validation. 


>  Eventually, my plan is to monitor CPAN and to automatically rebuild
>  modules as they are uploaded. I'm also going to make them available at
>  http://rpm.pkgs.cpan.org/. I don't really see any need for this to be
>  part of the Fedora project (particularly as I build RPMs for Centos too).
>  
Well, to me, the reason to submit packages to Fedora is to have the bits I'm
interested in widely and easily available, without having to set up my own
3rd party repository (VCS, bug tracker, buildsystem, hosting, etc, etc).
It's a little extra work for a lot of extra gain; and I have scripts that
automate the more tedious/routine bits.  A review is mandated as part of the
submission process...  It's pretty straight forward, and for packages
created with cpanspec or the like, essentially pro forma at this point.

There's also a larger group of people than "just me" interested in Perl in
Fedora, which has its advantages.

But, TMTOWTDI :-)  I know I'd like to see a more up-to-date set of Perl
packages for RHEL/Centos, as we use that in places at $work and the
restrictions around EPEL make it pretty unworkable for me.

                                              -Chris
-- 
Chris Weyl
Ex astris, scientia

[Gabor Szabo]

On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 8:56 PM, Chris Weyl <cweyl(a)alumni.drew.edu&gt; wrote:
>  On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 1:13 AM, Dave Cross <dave(a)dave.org.uk&gt; wrote:
> >
> > Chris Weyl wrote:
> > > On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 4:37 AM, Dave Cross <dave(a)dave.org.uk&gt; wrote:
> > >
> > >> Gabor Szabo wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> So I'd like to ask you to add Task::Kensho to the list of perl
> > >>> packages you include in Fedora. Satisfying all of the dependencies
> > >>> will bring a nice subset of CPAN to the Fedora users.
> > >>>
> > >> One of the points I made in my post was that I've already build RPMs
> > >> for
> > >> all of the Kensho modules (or, at least, the ones that aren't already
> > >> in the
> > >> Fedora repositories). So if you wanted to move them into the Fedora
> > >> project
> > >> you could grab them from http://rpm.mag-sol.com/.
> > >>
> > >
> > > Another thing I didn't mention...  If you (or anyone, really) wants to
> > > submit these packages, I'll help review them.
> >
> > What advantage would that give? The RPMs are are already available for
> > anyone who wants them. I'm not sure why they need another level of
> > validation.
>
>
> >
> > Eventually, my plan is to monitor CPAN and to automatically rebuild
> > modules as they are uploaded. I'm also going to make them available at
> > http://rpm.pkgs.cpan.org/. I don't really see any need for this to be
> > part of the Fedora project (particularly as I build RPMs for Centos too).
>
>  Well, to me, the reason to submit packages to Fedora is to have the bits I'm
>  interested in widely and easily available, without having to set up my own
>  3rd party repository (VCS, bug tracker, buildsystem, hosting, etc, etc).
>  It's a little extra work for a lot of extra gain; and I have scripts that
>  automate the more tedious/routine bits.  A review is mandated as part of the
>  submission process...  It's pretty straight forward, and for packages
>  created with cpanspec or the like, essentially pro forma at this point.
>
>  There's also a larger group of people than "just me" interested in Perl in
>  Fedora, which has its advantages.
>
>  But, TMTOWTDI :-)  I know I'd like to see a more up-to-date set of Perl
>  packages for RHEL/Centos, as we use that in places at $work and the
>  restrictions around EPEL make it pretty unworkable for me. 
Let me give my own view as someone who does not currently use Fedora
but who seas many companies using Fedora or Red Hat.

It seems to be much easier to convince a sysadmin or a manager to install
another package supplied by the same vendor than to go to CPAN and
install from there.
Having a separate rpm repository might work for some people but many won't get
the approval of whoever needs to give this approval.

We might or might not agree with the value of this practice but if we
would like
them to use more of CPAN we need to play that game.

In addition there is a certain added value in the fact that module
versions are frozen at a certain
hopefully stable point in time, when the distro was released.

In many cases it is better to use the boring but stable than the
cuting edge from CPAN or from a
CPAN2rpm mirror site.

Gabor