Response to "Getting Fedora Out of the If-Then Loop"

Adam Miller maxamillion at
Fri Feb 19 06:32:06 UTC 2010

2010/2/18 Máirín Duffy <duffy at>:
> On Thu, 2010-02-18 at 16:17 -0600, Adam Miller wrote:
>> 2010/2/18 Máirín Duffy <duffy at>:
>> > On Thu, 2010-02-18 at 12:17 -0600, Adam Miller wrote:
>> >> I'm just going to be straight with it, would the Board be happier if
>> >> the entire Spins SIG closed up shop and we got KDE, Xfce, LXDE, or
>> >> anything else that were to pop up completely out of the repositories
>> >> so that we can focus on the golden child? Is that what this is about?
>> >> Because at this point I'm just tired of the ambiguity and if that is
>> >> what's desired, then lets just say it and move on.
>> >
>> > Can I ask you a question:
>> >
>> > Do you work on non-default spins with the expectation/hope that someday
>> > it will be crowned prom queen / I mean be the default spin?
>> Nope, not at all. I work on it because it interests me and I do have
>> hopes that others will enjoy the results just as those who put in the
>> effort to make it happen, but I don't have the unrealistic expectation
>> for the Spin(s) that I work on to take over the market share of the
>> prom queen.
> Cool I think at least you and me are on the same page then. I think
> spins are a cool place for folks to experiment and try things out
> without the pressure / overhead of a Process (with a capital 'P') but
> the default spin should be more rigorous in the user experience planning
> we should be doing for it as it's serving as a vehicle to spread FOSS.

I completely agree with you and I do apologize if I made it seem as
though I were trying to fight the fight in order to "over throw" the
current default because that is not at all a thought that has ever
crossed my mind.

I think Gnome is a solid place to be the default, the environment is
clearly the leader in supporting next generation technology as we have
already seen in some cases with Xfce still depending on legacy bits
and needing parts rewritten to use such things as DeviceKit (just one
example). I have actually in the past supported arguments for the
Default spin taking priority or "winning" in cases of conflict. So I
do definitely think that we are on the same page. :)

> I don't see how (and I hope you don't either) refining the process for
> putting together the default spin as a polished product impedes upon
> your ability to work on what you want to work on. If you'd rather hack
> on the XFCE spin, for example, that's totally cool. Nobody is saying we
> all must drop what we're doing and focus solely on the default spin. (At
> least I hope not!)

This is the part I was attempting to get clarification on because I've
often heard statements such as "the Spins are hurting Fedora" or "they
do more bad than good" (these are not exact quotes and I don't really
remember who said them but I'm sure if we searched all the mailing
lists and irc logs they would show up somewhere). While I disagree
with these sentiments, I just wanted to know if this was the intent of
the Board, do they want to get rid of the Spins or not? If not,
awesome. If so, well then I will relocate the kickstart file for the
Xfce Spin, remove the Fedora TM stuff and call it a Remix ... Ideal?
no, but I wouldn't lose sleep over it.

>> This is honestly part of why I asked the question you
>> quoted because if the end goal is to stop the Spins in their tracks
>> then I will simply move from "Spin" to "Remix" with a different logo
>> set as to not walk on the lines of TM issues. It makes no difference
>> to me, I think it would be a bit of a slap in the face to some but it
>> bothers me absolutely zero. I get to do what I want, contribute to
>> Fedora and my over all desktop experience doesn't change (I would just
>> miss the pretty Fedora logo).
> I think the end goal is to spread Fedora far and wide, and I'd like to
> use the default spin as the main vehicle for doing that. I don't think
> that should have any impact on the spins at all, though - and I don't
> think it means they are any less Fedora.
> ~m

I think this is a great stance to have on it, I agree that we need
something to go to conferences and hand out and say "This is Fedora"
but we have that now (and we also have spins to say "If you're looking
for something different, look at all these choices you have!"). If the
intent is to simply enhance upon this notion of the "This is Fedora"
<hand person physical media> aspect then that's great, more power to
the Board.


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