governance, fesco, board, etc.

[Luke Macken]

On Tue, Jun 12, 2007 at 01:42:50PM +0200, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
> On Tue, 2007-06-12 at 14:43 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> > Ralf Corsepius wrote:
> > 
> > > 
> > > RH "dark chamber" decisions in many cases first take effect, and are
> > > never discussed nor voted on. They are "divine", except for some rare
> > > occasions when one or more of these "divine creatures" has the grace to
> > > listen.
> > > 
> > > ATM, I am seeing @RH's (esp. rel-eng) drawing arguable RH-centric
> > > decisions, which I consider to be spoiling large parts of the basis the
> > > former FE's success was based on.
> > 
> > If you want things to improve you can't be throwing vague accusations. 
> > Rel Eng has non-RH members in it and can potentially accommodate more if 
> > they volunteer.
> OK, in verbose: 
> 
> rel-eng has broken FE's workflow model into something I consider
> counter-productive and unusable to community contributors. 

Over 400 package updates have been pushed out with our new
infrastructure in the past couple of weeks since F7.  That's fairly
impressive for something that you consider to be 'unusable'.

I'm not saying bodhi is perfect, by any stretch of the imagination.
Hell, it hasn't even reached 1.0 yet, which is what I defined as
'Minimal functionality for Fedora 7'.  When it came down to the home
stretch, we made a ballsy choice to completely change the way bodhi
pushes out updates, 1 week before the release.  A few all-nighters
later, and I was able to crank that code out and get it deployed
before F7 was released.  So now we have a working updates system
deployed, that is getting better every day.

The moral of the story is: workflows change.  competent developers
change with them.  through rational discourse and development (neither
of which you seem to be acquainted with), workflows become optimized.
Things improve.  (repeat)

> rel-eng's deeds are throwing away all the points having made FE
> attractive.

By attractive, you mean that with a single command you can push out any
changes to any package in FE to all Fedora users without even testing
that the program even runs?  I hate to tell you, but even Gentoo does
more QA on packages than we ever did with FE.

luke