Google Adwords - not sure if off-topic

inode0 inode0 at
Sat Apr 17 18:12:35 UTC 2010

On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 11:55 AM, Nelson Marques <07721 at> wrote:
> On Fri, 2010-04-16 at 18:05 -0500, inode0 wrote:
>> On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 5:46 PM, Nelson Marques <07721 at> wrote:
>> >
>> > ... snip lots of interesting stuff ...
>> >
>> > * About Marketing itself:
>> >
>> > "Marketing is the social process by which individuals and groups obtain
>> > what they need and want through creating and exchanging products and
>> > value with others" - Philip Kotler
>> >
>> >  The process of exchanging products and value has nothing to do with
>> > "monetary units". I'm not quite sure why everyone tries to place $stash
>> > there.
>> >
>> >  Applying that to Fedora, Marketing should realize on what Fedora users
>> > want and provide them a product (Fedora Linux) that meets their needs.
>> > This will conduct to a recognition of Value on Fedora Linux (product) by
>> > our users.
>> I'm really not sure that is how I would do the translation to Fedora
>> in this case. For most Fedora users the "product" is largely a gift
>> where nothing is exchanged..
> Nothing is exchanged? Robyn's contribution to Fedora 13 slogan: "Rock
> it":

My comment was modified and was not absolute. I said it is *largely* a
gift where nothing is exchanged.

> * We provide a zero cost (lets assume it that way) free operating
> system;
> * Rock it; We provide a experience;
> * We provide an alternative;

Yes, *we* provide something of value.

> - We get revenue? No. We get something back? Off course we do; users
> recognition for prime engineering software. A contact between the user
> and our philosophy. He might not get enrolled with the Fedora Community,
> but he is already enrolled with FOSS (and eventually at the very low
> level with FEdora) by moment he downloads the software.

Sometimes the recognition is lovely. Sometimes we are told we are
producing a pile of steaming something or other and we either grow
thick skin or we have hurt feelings. Not all recognition is motivating
in a positive way.

I agree and did not dispute the obvious that spreading a message is a
part of what we do. When that message is received and acted on I think
the world is a better place whether that action directly affects the
Fedora Project or not.

Let's think about the quote again. "Marketing is the social process by
which individuals and groups obtain what they need and want through
creating and exchanging products and value with others." I'll just say
that we get far more of what we need (value that sustains the project
and allows it to grow) from exchanges with contributors than we ever
can from exchanges with users and I think marketing should focus a lot
more energy in that direction.

One of the things that somewhat distresses me about the work of
ambassadors is that I have a feeling that a lot of resources might be
going in directions that aren't the most fruitful. I'm sure we have
contributors who come to the project in just about every way that one
can imagine. But I see very few who enter from the places we seem to
focus our energies most (handing out media at events and having random
people download media). That is not to suggest that doing those things
isn't of value, it is just to suggest that I'm not sure it is the best
way to draw contributors into the project. I see a very large number
of contributors join the project from working in related communities
where Fedora contributors are also present. Fedora contributors "rub
off" on others in common communities and with encouragement of the
right people we increase the contributor base.

> I've said this more than once: profit doesn't need to be based on
> monetary units (€'s, $US, etc etc). It can be also translated in social
> profit (easy to associate with our Foundations).

You don't need to keep saying it because no one else has been talking
about money.

> This is mainly how I see it. There was once a workshop with Nicklodeon's
> Marketing Director. He was explaining how he got kidnapped by alliens
> and how he learned their numbers. He was making the symbols and telling
> us what those numbers where. No one made a damn clue about it and
> everyone was thinking that he was a looney. Eventually he pops out with
> "out of the box" and soon enough everyone was enlightened. This was a
> very amusing experience. This to say, that sometimes we need to think
> "out of the box". But most of us are just twisted by our day to day
> life. For example, a kid you know around 10 years or a bit older. Give
> him a Fedora DVD, explain him what it is (in words he can understand)
> and try to get him to say what if he got something that you can consider
> as a trade (at 10 he will never become a fedora contributor). But it is
> a trade.

Don't underestimate a 10 year old. There is an 11 year old Red Hat
Certified Engineer.

>>  To see a real exchange we need to look at
>> Fedora contributors, not Fedora users. When we give the contributors
>> what they want they give back to the project.
> Those keep the project alive, for sure. Totally agree, but that doesn't
> mean that all the others who don't and only use fedora don't recognize
> value in a trade (by downloading our software for instance). Today's
> user might be tomorrow's potential contributor. It's up to us Marketing
> twisted monkeys to make it happen. My interview with Dan tried to
> explore that gap and make an approach to why possible contributors
> sometimes don't enroll.
> ... snipped wall of text ...
> My personal view and once more, sorry for the wall of text.
> Mostly I agree with you, but I see a value recognition in those "trades"
> even if the users don't directly contribute to us.

I see value in them too, I just see a lot more value in other "trades."


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