fedora-list Digest, Vol 2, Issue 17

Brian Bober netdemonz at yahoo.com
Sat Apr 3 00:07:19 UTC 2004

> Alexander certainly isn't ignorant.  

I can guarantee that I am not ignorant either. Yet he questioned whether I am
ignorant or not.

> In my opinion he adds more value
> than anyone else, with his knowledge, helpfullness and his contant
> battle to try and encourage netiquette.

How can he battle to encourage netiquette when he doesn't display it on his
own? That seems hypocritical to me. I am not intending to wander into a nest of
people that will band together and hurt outsiders that aren't part of their
little clique.

Lemme quote something from the Fedora site:

"The goal of The Fedora Project is to work with the Linux community to build a
complete, general purpose operating system exclusively from free software.
Development will be done in a public forum [snip] By using this more open
process, we hope to provide an operating system that uses free software
development practices and is more appealing to the open source community."

Is flaming people the way towards community? I'm sure it was just frustration
boiling out, but whereas some people are just going to keep their mouth shut,
leave and start spreading information that the Fedora people are aggressive and
unkind to outsiders (which does spread, and I'm sure you know of plenty
examples), I don't operate that way. I tell it how it is. I'm bringing this to
your attention so you can work better to develop community instead of a group
of list regulars that attack people who haven't read every single post.

Well, perhaps the ones most active with Redhat Linux need some adjustment to
the idea of community, also. Do you think you are going to develop community
flaming new members of the mailing list?

We are all here for the same reason. I have used Redhat for years, and want
Fedora to be stable enough and feature-rich enough in not only current things
it handles, but future. That's because I don't like Microsoft and want Linux to
be the platform of choice for both novice users and power users of computers.
I'm sure you want the same thing. I am impressed about Fedora because it is
likely to be more up-to-date than the Redhat <= 9 distributions. I'm sure you
have a lot of similiarities in your own views to what I just said. 

Do you think I'd be running a test release if I didn't want to make sure that
other people would not run into the same bugs I run into and that things can
move faster? 

To go flaming people that are trying to help and that are trying to find out
about certain bugs is not going to make anything run smoother. Just because
someone has been assisting for a long time doesn't give them the right to go
around flaming people.

Let's give an analogy of what you are saying, here:

There are two lines for getting into an amusement park, one for people with
season tickets, and one for people without them. Some people without season
tickets occasionally go in the wrong line because they didn't know which to go
into... Maybe they are new to the park, whatever.

Ok, so after maybe 50 days of park attendants having this happen a few times a
day, they yell at the next person who does this by accident. Basically, they
are taking out all their frustration about people making honest mistakes on one

I am not focused on one aspect of computing, and perhaps some of you are. I'm a
jack of all trades, while some people spend their lives in one community.. You
really need to have some tolerance for people that wander into a new community.
You really have no clue the diversity that exists between them. Its like you
killing some ETs for not following laws they didn't know about when they came
to your world. Would that be fair? No.

You might say that people are buying a service at a park, while at Fedora, they
are just testers. Well, testing is sort of a payment to the developers, so I
don't see much of a difference between the payment being in money or time. Time
is money. Its also payment towards the Linux community. Treat your testers with

If you can't handle this kind of thing, maybe you should take a time out and go
for a jog, or just let people who are more tolerant respond. Put it in
perspective, its not like WWIII was caused or anything. If a LOT of people are
doing it, then you need to realize perhaps the problem lies not in the people
that do it, but the fact its not more obvious to them. When you guys go into
another community, I hope you aren't flamed when you make a mistake.

> Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 00:17:58 +0100
> From: Steve Searle <mail at stevesearle.com>
> Subject: Re: fedora-list Digest, Vol 2, Issue 17
> To: For users of Fedora Core releases <fedora-list at redhat.com>
> Message-ID: <20040402231758.GA5302 at candy.10forbes.close>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> Around 12:02am on Saturday, April 03, 2004 (UK time), Brian Bober scrawled:
> > Alexander: You have really pissed me off. That kind of response was not
> > professional, kind, or even intelligent. Do YOU realize that people
> subscribe
> > through digest? I wrote that email LONG before I saw your responses. Now
> who is
> > the ignorant one?
> Alexander certainly isn't ignorant.  In my opinion he adds more value
> than anyone else, with his knowledge, helpfullness and his contant
> battle to try and encourage netiquette.
> He shouldn't have to tell people constantly that FC2 questions don't
> belong here, you and others should read what the list is about before
> posting, and post relevant items.
> Steve
> -- 
> (o<     www.stevesearle.com
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