[GW-C] [ECOTONE] Re: rant of the day: installing fedora

[Richard Vickery]

On Fri, Jul 12, 2013 at 1:45 PM, lee <lee at yun.yagibdah.de> wrote:
> "D. Hugh Redelmeier" <hugh at mimosa.com> writes:
>
>> | From: Tom Horsley <horsley1953 at gmail.com>
>>
>> | How did you get past the screen that only lets you pick a whole disk
>> | drive then, as the only possible option after that, click "Done"?
>> | (Or, as I did the first time I saw it, push the reset button :-).
>> |
>> | No power on earth could get me to click "Done" under those circumstances
>> | when installing on a system that contains data I want to preserve.
>> | Only after trying the install on a totally trashable test system
>> | did I find that "Done" actually means, "OK, now you get to pick
>> | partitions."
>> |
>> | I don't have enough trust available to believe that they surely
>> | won't actually wipe out the whole disk (especially when every
>> | other part of the redesign has been to reduce or eliminate options).
>>
>> I find the installer confusing.  I would need to take a movie of using
>> it so I can actually accurately report the confusion.  But here goes
>> an unreliable report:
>>
>> When you are selecting the disk(s) for the installer, you are NOT
>> selecting the partitions.  I think that Tom didn't know this and hence
>> was scared by this screen.  With good reason: I don't remember that
>> this was explained clearly on the screen.
>
> Yes, it tells you that your disks won't be touched before you click on
> the Done button, and the obvious conclusion is that it may touch them
> once you click it, possibly overwriting your data.
>
> When you're finished partitioning, it tells you it won't touch anything
> before you click the Finish button.  Apparently they have taken care not
> to overwrite your data, but this part of the installer needs a thorough
> redesign.  Even after trying it, I would not trust the installer not to
> overwrite data when I click on the Done button.
>
> If I had had disks with data on them when I tried out the installer, I
> wouldn't have clicked on that Done button, either.  Not clicking that
> button means no install.  That means no install when you have data on
> disks you cannot physically disconnect before trying to install.
>
>> Everything is obvious in retrospect.  Too bad we don't travel the
>> right way in time for that to be good enough.
>
> Nothing is obvious, imho.  I almost gave up trying to install Fedora
> because it didn't seem possible to get the partitioning I wanted.
>
> The installer tries to do the partitioning for you.  It totally ignores
> that you may want to have your partitions in a particular order, like
> swap partitions first because that may be faster.  It totally ignores
> that you may want a particular partition --- like for /home --- on a
> different disk.
>
> What you need to do is run cfdisk or the like and create your partitions
> before running the installer.  Then you need to get the installer to use
> the partitioning you created, and it is kinda the opposite of obvious
> how to that.  I only found out by chance when looking at the screen,
> asking myself which distribution to try out instead.
>
> There also needs to be a way to go back once you started partitioning.
> You have to quit the installer and start over every time you're not
> happy with the partitioning it tries to do.
>
> You're probably screwed when you need LVM or software raid or encryption
> with the partitioning you need.  Is there any way to get that?  Can you
> install Fedora on software raid with the partitioning you need?  And can
> you do that with encrypted partitions?
>
>> Anaconda(?) really needs to cue the user about its state: the user
>> needs to know when it is busy and the screen doesn't yet reflect
>> the user's last action.  This comes up in more than one situation so I
>> infer that it is a general Anaconda problem.
>
> I didn't have the waiting time you experienced, and at no time I felt
> that the progress wasn't shown.  The installation went fast (from an USB
> stick) and flawless and everything worked out of the box.
>
> Other than the partitioning and the installer not using the keyboard
> layout I specified, I'm really impressed.
>
>> Anaconda's screens need to be more wordy to make things clearer
>> and less scary to the user.
>
> Yes, it is not at all clear in any way at which point your disks might
> be touched.
>
> And there needs to be something like an option for extended partitioning
> that allows you to do whatever you want.  Having the installer do it for
> you is a nice option to have and it's not enough.
>
> On a side note, you can now put /usr onto its own partition like it
> should be.
>
>
> --
> Fedora 18
> --


Why not install it and make partitions at a later time?