why do we use systemd?

[lee]

Kevin Fenzi <kevin at scrye.com> writes:

> On Sun, 06 Jul 2014 18:18:46 +0200
> lee <lee at yun.yagibdah.de> wrote:
>
>> Kevin Fenzi <kevin at scrye.com> writes:
>> 
>> > On Sun, 06 Jul 2014 09:52:24 +0200
>> > lee <lee at yun.yagibdah.de> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Kevin Fenzi <kevin at scrye.com> writes:
>> >> 
>> >> > output. With systemd/journald, ALL output is saved and easy to
>> >> > query. 
>> >> 
>> >> How do you query this output?  I just look at the logfile, and when
>> >> it's not there, I never see it.  What's the advantage of hiding
>> >> output like that?
>> >
>> > journalctl -u servicename
>> >
>> > (I usually add -b which gives you messages only since last boot). 
>> 
>> That doesn't make sense.  What if you're trying to solve a problem,
>> suspecting a particular service, and the problem is somewhere else?
>> You'd never see the relevant messages because they remain hidden.
>
> journalctl | grep whatever
>
> or 
>
> journalctl | less
>
> and page though things?

You can probably do that, but 'less /var/log/syslog' is easier.

>> You'd have to browse all messages, and an ordinary logfile is
>> perfectly suited for that.  What's the advantage of using an
>> unreadable format and added complexity supposed to be?
>
> It lets you do things like easily grep the messages from just the last
> boot, or isolate things from particular services, export it in other
> formats, lets you easily log from containers or user space items. 

I've never had trouble looking at the logs.  Now I do because I might
only see part of the messages.

> Anyhow, it sounds like you are pretty firmly set in your dislike for
> systemd/journald. Not sure continued discussion will change your mind
> any... 

What I don't like is when things are made more complicated than they
need to be.  Where is the advantage of systemd to me, and why would it
be needed?  Then read the links the OP provided ...

It's like pulseaudio.  It has no advantages for me and only
disadvantages.  It's awfully complicated and cryptic.  If you do need
features it offers, it's nice to have, yet that doesn't mean that
everyone should be forced to use it.  It took until F19 until it
worked. It took several times asking on this list since F17 to finally
get rid of it.  That may show you how "simple" it is.


-- 
Fedora release 20 (Heisenbug)