Re: Fedora Present and Future: a Fedora.next 2014 Update (Part I,?“Why?”)

[Max]

On 03/25/2014 02:24 PM, Chris Murphy wrote:
> On Mar 25, 2014, at 2:41 AM, lee <lee at yun.yagibdah.de> wrote:
>
>> Chris Murphy <lists at colorremedies.com> writes:
>>
>>>> Partitioning took me about three hours with the installer of F19, with a
>>>> very simple setup and not even data to preserve and neither RAID, nor
>>>> encryption, and it was only possible after I created the partitions
>>>> outside the installer.  There was no way to do it with the installer, it
>>>> kept saying there isn`t enough room despite there was plenty, and it did
>>>> what it wanted rather than what I wanted.
>>> Please post the bugzilla URL.
>> I didn`t make one, I was busy trying to install.  You need to get used
>> to that not every problem is or can be made into a bug report,
>> especially not one that would be in any way useful.
> What I ought to do is not QA Manual Partitioning anymore and just let the people who actually think they need or want it do all the testing and bug reporting for it and let it become whatever it becomes.
>
>
>>> Most of the size reporting problems like this are non-contiguous
>>> sections of free space being added up and reported as Available space;
>>> but the request is for a partition size greater than the largest
>>> contiguously available space.
>> Maybe it begins with the installer messing together all the disks in
>> some weird way rather than to treat them separately and just let you
>> partition them the way you want to.  IIRC, there wasn`t even a way to
>> tell it which partition to put where.
> It is possible although the UI isn't obvious. You click on the mount point in question, and then there is this 3rd or 4th button under the mount points section that looks like a wrench and screwdriver (?) that you click. And that brings up a dialog where you choose which drive that mount point's underlying partition appears on.
>
>
>
>>>> It was seriously awful.  It would have taken 10--15 minutes with the
>>>> Debian installer.
>>> It isn't going to get better complaining about it on this list. Do you
>>> have bugzilla IDs, and if so post them. If not, then how do you expect
>>> the behavior to get any better? Magic?
>> The makers of the installer can always look into this list and see what
>> ppl say about the installer and learn from that.
> No they will not do this, and it's inappropriate to even suggest it. That you don't get that simply means you're ignorant of how the process works.
>
>>   Bug reports are not
>> suited for this, and complaining that ppl don`t make enough of them
>> doesn`t get you anywhere.
> Filing a bug report is the process. That's it. It works this way for everything: gnome, kde, and even commercial projects do it this way. They do not have developers hanging out in user forums ever. Sometimes QA people hang out in user forums.
I believe what you want is a request for enhancement(RFE) because it 
probably works as intended. A clear succinct explanation of what the 
perceived problem is and what the suggested enhancement is or should be 
has to included. Saying you don't like it isn't going to get you 
anywhere. You have to lucidly explain why it falls short and how to 
improve it. You have to appeal to logic not emotion.

>> Or, since you keep insisting on bug reports, why don`t you go ahead and
>> put together a list of URLs to the list archive pointing to posts about
>> the installer to compile a combined bug report?
> Why don't you go ahead and send me 4-5 bitcoins and I'll think about it?
>
> This is how I know your problem isn't really serious, because it's so unimportant to you, you won't lift a finger to contribute to any improvement. Why should I help you since you won't even help yourself?
>
>
>
>> How much attention and fixing do you think that would get?  It`ll
>> probably be closed with WONTFIX, one reason being that what is said here
>> doesn`t refers much more to installers from F17 to F19.
>>
>> Perhaps the installer of F20 has be re-designed from scratch, at least
>> when it comes to partitioning, and now works fine.
> The installer is redesigned as of Fedora 18.
>
>
>>>> you just do country and keyboard setup --- which is missing in Fedoras
>>>> installer, there was no way to tell it that I have a German keyboard ---
>>> Fedora 18, 19 and 20 have a keyboard spoke in the installer which is
>>> how you tell it you want to use a German keyboard layout.
>> Whatever they might have, I tried several times (because I had to start
>> over many times because it refused to do the partitioning) to tell the
>> installer of F19 that I have a German keyboard, and there was no way.
> OK well I just tried it on Fedora 19 Netinstall  and Fedora 20 Live Desktop and I could easily choose a German keyboard, so I don't know what you're doing wrong. It's right there under Localization in the Keyboard option on the main menu right after choosing language.
>
>>   I
>> don`t even know what you mean by "spoke".  You boot the life system,
>> search for "install" to find the installer, then you get an icon and
>> start the installer, and pretty soon you get stuck with trying to do the
>> partitioning.
> Hub = the main menu that comes after language selection. On the hub are "spokes" which are paths for various things like "Time & Date" and "Keyboard" and "Installation Destination".
>
>
>
>
> Chris Murphy
>


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