----- Original Message -----
From: "Neal Gompa" <ngompa13(a)gmail.com>
To: "Radka Janekova" <radka.janek(a)redhat.com>
Cc: "Pavel Valena" <pvalena(a)redhat.com>, "Brian Exelbierd"
<bexelbie(a)redhat.com>, "Justin W. Flory"
<jflory7(a)gmail.com>, developer-portal(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
Sent: Sunday, November 5, 2017 12:46:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Developer-portal] Re: FDP release and statistics 10/2017: C# IDEs and Mono
updates; Python, Docker and
Haskell fixes
On Sun, Nov 5, 2017 at 6:40 AM, Neal Gompa <ngompa13(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 5, 2017 at 5:22 AM, Radka Janekova <radka.janek(a)redhat.com>
> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I will *not* give in to FLOSS-Extremism[1] and I will *not* censor any
>> information from the user. If JetBrains Rider is the best IDE, I will tell
>> the whole world about it without any bias, while merely pointing out that
>> it's not open source. The developer portal page was well written pointing
>> out that fact, while ordering the IDE's by unbiased usefulness score.
>> Removing Rider from the developer page is effectively undoing months of my
>> work in the bigger picture of the whole
fedoraloves.net effort.
>>
>
> What? I'm not telling you to shut up about Rider. I'm sure Rider is a nice
> IDE. I personally use CLion for some of my C/C++ projects, though since
> most
> of my projects are Python, I use PyCharm quite a bit. But the focus of
> Fedora Developer Portal is showing how to use tools in Fedora to do awesome
> things. And to date, none of the JetBrains IDEs (even my favored PyCharm,
> which is open source) are available in Fedora. PyCharm is not mentioned in
> the Fedora Developer Portal for Python for exactly that reason. Neither is
> IntelliJ IDEA for Java. Same goes for Android development using Eclipse or
> Android Studio, as neither the Android SDK nor the associated IDE/IDE
> components are packaged in Fedora.
I'd love to see some pages/mentions for those IDEs too (while explicitly stated that
they're proprietary solutions). It's the 'developer' we care about
foremost (more below).
Self-correction: Android development is briefly mentioned in the
Developer Portal, specifically with Android Studio.
C.f:
https://developer.fedoraproject.org/start/sw/mobile-app/mobile-installati...
It's only mildly annoying, as all of that code for development is FOSS
and could be made available in Fedora proper. But if I am to apply the
same standard I did to C# to this, that would need to be removed until
someone is willing to bring that stuff into Fedora. I am okay with
this, but I imagine someone else is going to get annoyed at me for
that standard (even though that's what the Developer Portal is
supposed to be about).
I'd like to stress once more, that the advertised software ('mentioned') does
not have to be *in* Fedora.
Provided it works (enhances developers' experience) on Fedora, and is reasonably
packaged/distributed. F.e. 'copr', RPM Fusion, PyPI[1], etc.. Although packaging
the recommended SW into Fedora is preferred, it doesn't necessarily mean it's a
good recommendation for a developer.
[1]
https://developer.fedoraproject.org/tech/languages/python/python-installa...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Radka Janekova" <radka.janek(a)redhat.com>
To: "Neal Gompa" <ngompa13(a)gmail.com>
Cc: "Justin W. Flory" <jflory7(a)gmail.com>, "Pavel Valena"
<pvalena(a)redhat.com>,
developer-portal(a)lists.fedoraproject.org, "Brian Exelbierd"
<bexelbie(a)redhat.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 5, 2017 1:51:30 PM
Subject: [Developer-portal] Re: FDP release and statistics 10/2017: C# IDEs and Mono
updates; Python, Docker and
Haskell fixes
> > @pvalena
> > > I can push the fix (or revert) on Tue afternoon, if you manage to have
> > > it till then. I'm afraid I'll be unavailable afterwards for 1.5w.
> > Stuff should not be removed based on opinions of one person who has
> > nothing to do with the technology in question, nor has any deciding
> > weight in the project (i.e. is not council/committee.) They can merely
> > bring it up for discussion.
> So my opinion is worthless? Wow. I don't have words for how awful that is.
> Despite the apparent worthlessness of my words, I'm still going to take
> the time to reply cordially, because I hope you will learn to see my point
> of view on this.
I said that changes to major operating system or official websites related to
it, should not be made based on an opinion of an individual, that the
appropriate body should be the decision maker, not the individual. I said
that the individual (in this case you) should merely take it up for
discussion as you did. Nothing wrong there, in fact, my reply was not
directed at you, nor was it discussing your actions, which were correct,
until this reply of yours. Your reply was not "cordial." Please do not put
words in my mouth as I have neither suggested nor implied that your opinions
are "worthless."
Please bear in mind that most benefitial result (for FDP) is AFAICT intentended from all.
It is, after all, a community project. I did want to release the FDP update, while
omitting any conflicting content. I didn't make any changes to website or content
sources, but merely edited the generated result[2]. This will be corrected, when a
decision is made.
[2]
https://github.com/developer-portal/developer.fedoraproject.org/commit/10...
Regards,
Pavel