Epel 8 (and 9) build against what?

[Miroslav Suchý]

Regarding the recent announcement of CentOS 8 flipping to CentOS Stream - What will be the
configs for building EPEL 8?
I mean mock configs? And I ask as Mock maintainer - because I have no idea.

Are we going to build EPEL 8 against CentOS stream? What will happen when CentOS stream
flip to RHEL 9 based content
 
https://wiki.centos.org/FAQ/CentOSStream#What_happens_when_CentOS_Stream_...
?

-- 
Miroslav Suchy, RHCA
Red Hat, Associate Manager ABRT/Copr, #brno, #fedora-buildsys

[Miro Hrončok]

On 12/15/20 11:00 AM, Miroslav Suchý wrote:
>  Regarding the recent announcement of CentOS 8 flipping to CentOS
> Stream - What will be the configs for building EPEL 8?
>  I mean mock configs? And I ask as Mock maintainer - because I have no idea.
>  
>  Are we going to build EPEL 8 against CentOS stream? What will happen when CentOS stream
> flip to RHEL 9 based content
>    
> https://wiki.centos.org/FAQ/CentOSStream#What_happens_when_CentOS_Stream_...
>  ? 
See this thread: 
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]...

-- 
Miro Hrončok
--
Phone: [phone]
IRC: mhroncok

[Stephen John Smoogen]

On Tue, 15 Dec 2020 at 05:00, Miroslav Suchý <msuchy(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:

>  Regarding the recent announcement of CentOS 8 flipping to CentOS
> Stream -
>  What will be the configs for building EPEL 8?
>  I mean mock configs? And I ask as Mock maintainer - because I have no idea.
>
>  Are we going to build EPEL 8 against CentOS stream? What will happen when
>  CentOS stream flip to RHEL 9 based content
>
>
> https://wiki.centos.org/FAQ/CentOSStream#What_happens_when_CentOS_Stream_...
>  ?
>
>  
Honestly I don't know how to deal with regular EPEL-8 development after
this. EPEL is going to add an epel-next which they would ask for additional
targets in mock for. However that does not fix building against the regular
EPEL-8 target. I expect it will depend on what programs come up for
development in the coming year and if the new -devel RHEL UBI images can be
used for mock.


-- 
Stephen J Smoogen.

[Matthew Miller]

On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 08:30:21AM -0500, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
>  Honestly I don't know how to deal with regular EPEL-8 development
> after
>  this. EPEL is going to add an epel-next which they would ask for additional
>  targets in mock for. However that does not fix building against the regular
>  EPEL-8 target. I expect it will depend on what programs come up for
>  development in the coming year and if the new -devel RHEL UBI images can be
>  used for mock. 
Or just the no-cost RHEL developer subscription? It seems like this is a
good use case for that, if it could be made easy enough that it isn't
painful for EPEL packagers.


-- 
Matthew Miller
<mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;
Fedora Project Leader

[Pavel Raiskup]

On Tuesday, December 15, 2020 4:44:58 PM CET Matthew Miller wrote:
>  On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 08:30:21AM -0500, Stephen John Smoogen
> wrote:
>  > Honestly I don't know how to deal with regular EPEL-8 development after
>  > this. EPEL is going to add an epel-next which they would ask for additional
>  > targets in mock for. However that does not fix building against the regular
>  > EPEL-8 target. I expect it will depend on what programs come up for
>  > development in the coming year and if the new -devel RHEL UBI images can be
>  > used for mock.
>  
>  Or just the no-cost RHEL developer subscription? It seems like this is a
>  good use case for that, if it could be made easy enough that it isn't
>  painful for EPEL packagers. 
That would be sort of good for Copr (we now can not support EPEL s390x for
example because there's no CentOS s390x).

Could we use the devel subscriptions (on copr builders) for building epel-*
targets against RHEL?  Or could we get some special subscription for Copr
purposes?  Yes, so far we (copr) build EPEL against CentOS+EPEL (ditto users
locally, with mock-core-configs.rpm).

Pavel

[Pavel Raiskup]

On Tuesday, December 15, 2020 4:44:58 PM CET Matthew Miller wrote:
>  On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 08:30:21AM -0500, Stephen John Smoogen
> wrote:
>  > Honestly I don't know how to deal with regular EPEL-8 development after
>  > this. EPEL is going to add an epel-next which they would ask for additional
>  > targets in mock for. However that does not fix building against the regular
>  > EPEL-8 target. I expect it will depend on what programs come up for
>  > development in the coming year and if the new -devel RHEL UBI images can be
>  > used for mock.
>  
>  Or just the no-cost RHEL developer subscription? It seems like this is a
>  good use case for that, if it could be made easy enough that it isn't
>  painful for EPEL packagers. 
Notable problem if we switched from CentOS to RHEL in Mock configuration
is that several build dependencies will be missing.  RHEL 8 doesn't e.g.
ship e.g. the *-devel packages (this problem, if I understand it correctly,
is slowly worked-around by CentOS-only packages).

NB there already is such equivalent configuration,
'mock -r rhelepel-8-x86_64'.  But RH-subscribed :-) Fedora is needed.

Pavel

[Matthew Miller]

On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 05:43:28PM +0100, Pavel Raiskup wrote:
>  Notable problem if we switched from CentOS to RHEL in Mock
> configuration
>  is that several build dependencies will be missing.  RHEL 8 doesn't e.g.
>  ship e.g. the *-devel packages (this problem, if I understand it correctly,
>  is slowly worked-around by CentOS-only packages). 
As I understand it, these are available as part of "CodeReady Linux Builder"
with the developer subscription.

https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_enterprise_linux/8/...



-- 
Matthew Miller
<mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;
Fedora Project Leader

[Stephen John Smoogen]

On Tue, 15 Dec 2020 at 12:02, Matthew Miller <mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;
wrote:

>  On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 05:43:28PM +0100, Pavel Raiskup wrote:
>  > Notable problem if we switched from CentOS to RHEL in Mock configuration
>  > is that several build dependencies will be missing.  RHEL 8 doesn't e.g.
>  > ship e.g. the *-devel packages (this problem, if I understand it
>  correctly,
>  > is slowly worked-around by CentOS-only packages).
>
>  As I understand it, these are available as part of "CodeReady Linux
>  Builder"
>  with the developer subscription.
>
>
>
> https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_enterprise_linux/8/...
>
>  
They are not. There are still quite a few -devel and similar packages that
are BuildRoot only but part of top level packages. These are currently
gotten to us by a case-by-case tooth pulling exercise into the CentOS Devel
repository (which si not the same as code-ready)

-- 
Stephen J Smoogen.

[Leon Fauster]

Am 15.12.20 um 18:02 schrieb Matthew Miller:
>  On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 05:43:28PM +0100, Pavel Raiskup wrote:
> > Notable problem if we switched from CentOS to RHEL in Mock configuration
> > is that several build dependencies will be missing.  RHEL 8 doesn't e.g.
> > ship e.g. the *-devel packages (this problem, if I understand it correctly,
> > is slowly worked-around by CentOS-only packages).
>  
>  As I understand it, these are available as part of "CodeReady Linux Builder"
>  with the developer subscription.
>  
>
> https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_enterprise_linux/8/...
>  
>  
>   
not all - there are still missing devel packages (intentionally).

--
Leon

[Stephen John Smoogen]

On Tue, 15 Dec 2020 at 10:45, Matthew Miller <mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;
wrote:

>  On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 08:30:21AM -0500, Stephen John Smoogen
> wrote:
>  > Honestly I don't know how to deal with regular EPEL-8 development after
>  > this. EPEL is going to add an epel-next which they would ask for
>  additional
>  > targets in mock for. However that does not fix building against the
>  regular
>  > EPEL-8 target. I expect it will depend on what programs come up for
>  > development in the coming year and if the new -devel RHEL UBI images can
>  be
>  > used for mock.
>
>  Or just the no-cost RHEL developer subscription? It seems like this is a
>  good use case for that, if it could be made easy enough that it isn't
>  painful for EPEL packagers.
>
>
>  
Currently a mock -r epel-8 can be done on a EL7/EL8 and any active Fedora.
It does not need any passwords or config setup.. just run a command. The
developer subscription requires additional setup to point to the EPEL
config to the access.redhat.com servers and similar things. It is easier to
point the configs to the Springdale or similar repos.

This may change sometime in the future..


-- 
Stephen J Smoogen.

[Miroslav Suchý]

Dne 15. 12. 20 v 16:44 Matthew Miller napsal(a):
>  Or just the no-cost RHEL developer subscription? 
From Terms and conditions:
  https://developers.redhat.com/terms-and-conditions

```
Examples of such violations include, but are not limited to ...
 * using the services provided under the Program for a production installation,
```

Is Copr production installation?

Even if we solve this for Copr (yeah doable) then it is huge complication for 3rd party
ISV as anyone building localy
package for RHEL on top of EPEL will need Developer subscription. :(


-- 
Miroslav Suchy, RHCA
Red Hat, Associate Manager ABRT/Copr, #brno, #fedora-buildsys

[Jeff Sheltren]

On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 2:16 PM Miroslav Suchý <msuchy(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote:

>  Dne 15. 12. 20 v 16:44 Matthew Miller napsal(a):
>  > Or just the no-cost RHEL developer subscription?
>
>  From Terms and conditions:
>    https://developers.redhat.com/terms-and-conditions
>
>  ```
>  Examples of such violations include, but are not limited to ...
>   * using the services provided under the Program for a production
>  installation,
>  ```
>
>  Is Copr production installation?
>
>  Even if we solve this for Copr (yeah doable) then it is huge complication
>  for 3rd party ISV as anyone building localy
>  package for RHEL on top of EPEL will need Developer subscription. :(
>
>
>  
Is nobody concerned with the implications (or irony?) of building an open
source project on top of a proprietary platform?

-Jeff

[Matthew Miller]

On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 02:36:40PM -0700, Jeff Sheltren wrote:
>  Is nobody concerned with the implications (or irony?) of building an
> open
>  source project on top of a proprietary platform? 
I assume you mean RHEL. RHEL is not a proprietary platform — it's silly to
call it that. Look at Rocky Linux and CloudLinux. And, you know, the Oracle
one. And Amazon Linux. And all of the source code is 100% available.

But also, ironic or not, EPEL is already built on RHEL.


-- 
Matthew Miller
<mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;
Fedora Project Leader

[Kevin Fenzi]

On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 11:00:15AM +0100, Miroslav Suchý wrote:
>  Regarding the recent announcement of CentOS 8 flipping to CentOS
> Stream - What will be the configs for building EPEL 8?
>  I mean mock configs? And I ask as Mock maintainer - because I have no idea. 
I don't think you need to panic and try and decide something now. 
I'd stick with the way it is now, and perhaps revisit it in 6months or
so when things might be more clear. 

>  Are we going to build EPEL 8 against CentOS stream? What will happen
> when CentOS stream flip to RHEL 9 based content
>   
> https://wiki.centos.org/FAQ/CentOSStream#What_happens_when_CentOS_Stream_...
>  ? 
There will still be centos8 stream for a year... 

kevin