Maithili language support gdm problem in Fedora

[Parag Nemade]

Hi,
  We have already missed F10 Alpha release and I am still struggling
to get Maithili language support included in rawhide. The problem I see
is that we need to modify fontconfig package to include Maithili
language. I submitted bug[1] to add Maithili in  bugzilla against
fontconfig 3 months back. But package maintainer of fontconfig closed it
instantly and made it upstream[2].
   I submitted required input in upstream bug. But, still no response
from upstream. If package maintainer is not willing to do code level
changes and also upstream then I will see no progress to add Maithili
language support in Fedora. So even if we will get translations and all
other changes done in Fedora by F10 release to support Maithili, users
will not able to see Maithili language selection in gdm.
  Can anyone provide inputs on this issue? Otherwise I will move ahead
and will commit required changes in rawhide and build new package as I
can see ACLs are open on fontconfig.

Regards,
Parag.

[1] *Bug 441995* https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=441995 -
[mai_IN] fc-list does not show Maithili language name
[2] https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15821

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Wed, 2008-08-06 at 13:03 +0530, Parag N(पराग़) wrote:
> Hi,
>   We have already missed F10 Alpha release and I am still struggling
> to get Maithili language support included in rawhide. The problem I see
> is that we need to modify fontconfig package to include Maithili
> language. I submitted bug[1] to add Maithili in  bugzilla against
> fontconfig 3 months back. But package maintainer of fontconfig closed it
> instantly and made it upstream[2].
>    I submitted required input in upstream bug. But, still no response
> from upstream. If package maintainer is not willing to do code level
> changes and also upstream then I will see no progress to add Maithili
> language support in Fedora. So even if we will get translations and all
> other changes done in Fedora by F10 release to support Maithili, users
> will not able to see Maithili language selection in gdm.

There is a misconception that bugs should be fixed as soon as they are
submitted.  That's simply not how it is.

You submitted the Fedora bug in April, without attaching any patch or
anything.  I upstreamed it early May, the upstream maintainer asked for
a patch on May 24, and released fontconfig 2.6 at the end of May.  If
you have submitted the patch in time, it would have been in latest
fontconfig release and hence in rawhide, but you didn't submit a patch
until July, and now expect it to suddenly appear in rawhide.  That's not
how I typically work, because Fedora is not Ubuntu.

I've talked to fontconfig maintainer to try to get a new version out in
August.  *That*'s how it should work.
> Can anyone provide inputs on this issue? Otherwise I will move ahead
> and will commit required changes in rawhide and build new package as I
> can see ACLs are open on fontconfig.

I wouldn't particularly like that.  Just because it's open doesn't
mean...
> Regards,
> Parag.
>
> [1] *Bug 441995* https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=441995 -
> [mai_IN] fc-list does not show Maithili language name
> [2] https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15821
>
> Fedora-fonts-list mailing list
> [e-mail]
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-fonts-list

[Parag Nemade]

Hi,

On 8/6/08, Behdad Esfahbod  wrote:
> On Wed, 2008-08-06 at 13:03 +0530, Parag N(पराग़) wrote:
> > Hi,
> >   We have already missed F10 Alpha release and I am still struggling
> > to get Maithili language support included in rawhide. The problem I see
> > is that we need to modify fontconfig package to include Maithili
> > language. I submitted bug[1] to add Maithili in  bugzilla against
> > fontconfig 3 months back. But package maintainer of fontconfig closed it
> > instantly and made it upstream[2].
> >    I submitted required input in upstream bug. But, still no response
> > from upstream. If package maintainer is not willing to do code level
> > changes and also upstream then I will see no progress to add Maithili
> > language support in Fedora. So even if we will get translations and all
> > other changes done in Fedora by F10 release to support Maithili, users
> > will not able to see Maithili language selection in gdm.
>
> There is a misconception that bugs should be fixed as soon as they are
>  submitted.  That's simply not how it is.

I don't see this is misconception. I have seen and still working on
bugs that have been reported years ago. I have never said that bugs
should be fixed soon.
> You submitted the Fedora bug in April, without attaching any patch or
>  anything.

I am not fontconfig maintainer/developer so how am I supposed to
know that what things need to fix bugs. Its responsibility of bug
person to whom bug got assigned to ask reporter for patch.
> I upstreamed it early May, the upstream maintainer asked for
>  a patch on May 24, and released fontconfig 2.6 at the end of May.  If
>  you have submitted the patch in time, it would have been in latest
>  fontconfig release and hence in rawhide, but you didn't submit a patch
>  until July, and now expect it to suddenly appear in rawhide.

And then why you not CC'ed me to upstream bug. Does that look good
to you? When I tried to search whats current status in upstream then
only I realized that upstream is waiting for me. You should have asked
me on IRC/mail to submit patch there.
  The only thing What I really don't like about you is that you never
replied back to me that you are in need of input. I never said I am
owner for all issues(say fontconfig)
> That's not
>  how I typically work, because Fedora is not Ubuntu.

I have never compared with Ubuntu and even don't know whats
happening there. I don't see thats my key responsibility.
> I've talked to fontconfig maintainer to try to get a new version out in
>  August.  *That*'s how it should work.

So then where am I comes in picture?. You and upstream is the only
responsible to decide on issues then I should have not been asked to
submit patch.
> > Can anyone provide inputs on this issue? Otherwise I will move ahead
> > and will commit required changes in rawhide and build new package as I
> > can see ACLs are open on fontconfig.
>
> I wouldn't particularly like that.  Just because it's open doesn't
>  mean...

It should mean anyone can fix issue. If not then make it CLOSED why
ACLs are open to everyone? Thats is reason I mail first before
modifying CVS.
> > Regards,
> > Parag.
> >
> > [1] *Bug 441995* https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=441995 -
> > [mai_IN] fc-list does not show Maithili language name
> > [2] https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15821
> > Fedora-fonts-list mailing list
> > [e-mail]
> > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-fonts-list
>
> --
>  behdad
>  http://behdad.org/

Regards,
Parag.

[Parag Nemade]

Hi,

On 8/7/08, Parag N(पराग़)  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On 8/6/08, Behdad Esfahbod  wrote:
> > On Wed, 2008-08-06 at 13:03 +0530, Parag N(पराग़) wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >   We have already missed F10 Alpha release and I am still struggling
> > > to get Maithili language support included in rawhide. The problem I see
> > > is that we need to modify fontconfig package to include Maithili
> > > language. I submitted bug[1] to add Maithili in  bugzilla against
> > > fontconfig 3 months back. But package maintainer of fontconfig closed it
> > > instantly and made it upstream[2].
> > >    I submitted required input in upstream bug. But, still no response
> > > from upstream. If package maintainer is not willing to do code level
> > > changes and also upstream then I will see no progress to add Maithili
> > > language support in Fedora. So even if we will get translations and all
> > > other changes done in Fedora by F10 release to support Maithili, users
> > > will not able to see Maithili language selection in gdm.
> >
> > There is a misconception that bugs should be fixed as soon as they are
> >  submitted.  That's simply not how it is.
>
> I don't see this is misconception. I have seen and still working on
>  bugs that have been reported years ago. I have never said that bugs
>  should be fixed soon.
> > You submitted the Fedora bug in April, without attaching any patch or
> >  anything.
>
> I am not fontconfig maintainer/developer so how am I supposed to
>  know that what things need to fix bugs. Its responsibility of bug
>  person to whom bug got assigned to ask reporter for patch.
> > I upstreamed it early May, the upstream maintainer asked for
> >  a patch on May 24, and released fontconfig 2.6 at the end of May.  If
> >  you have submitted the patch in time, it would have been in latest
> >  fontconfig release and hence in rawhide, but you didn't submit a patch
> >  until July, and now expect it to suddenly appear in rawhide.

Bug activity on upstream bug showed me
   Who  	When  	What  	Removed  	Added
[e-mail] 	2008-07-08 23:52:32 PST 	CC 		[e-mail]

So till this date I was not informed that new release is coming and
whether I need to provide any input on this?
> And then why you not CC'ed me to upstream bug. Does that look good
>  to you? When I tried to search whats current status in upstream then
>  only I realized that upstream is waiting for me. You should have asked
>  me on IRC/mail to submit patch there.
>   The only thing What I really don't like about you is that you never
>  replied back to me that you are in need of input. I never said I am
>  owner for all issues(say fontconfig)
> > That's not
> >  how I typically work, because Fedora is not Ubuntu.
>
> I have never compared with Ubuntu and even don't know whats
>  happening there. I don't see thats my key responsibility.
> > I've talked to fontconfig maintainer to try to get a new version out in
> >  August.  *That*'s how it should work.
>
> So then where am I comes in picture?. You and upstream is the only
>  responsible to decide on issues then I should have not been asked to
>  submit patch.
> > > Can anyone provide inputs on this issue? Otherwise I will move ahead
> > > and will commit required changes in rawhide and build new package as I
> > > can see ACLs are open on fontconfig.
> >
> > I wouldn't particularly like that.  Just because it's open doesn't
> >  mean...
>
> It should mean anyone can fix issue. If not then make it CLOSED why
>  ACLs are open to everyone? Thats is reason I mail first before
>  modifying CVS.
> > > Regards,
> > > Parag.
> > >
> > > [1] *Bug 441995* https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=441995 -
> > > [mai_IN] fc-list does not show Maithili language name
> > > [2] https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15821
> > > Fedora-fonts-list mailing list
> > > [e-mail]
> > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-fonts-list
> >
> > --
> >  behdad
> >  http://behdad.org/
>
> Regards,
>
> Parag.

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Thu, 2008-08-07 at 08:02 +0530, Parag N(पराग़) wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On 8/6/08, Behdad Esfahbod  wrote:
> > On Wed, 2008-08-06 at 13:03 +0530, Parag N(पराग़) wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >   We have already missed F10 Alpha release and I am still struggling
> > > to get Maithili language support included in rawhide. The problem I see
> > > is that we need to modify fontconfig package to include Maithili
> > > language. I submitted bug[1] to add Maithili in  bugzilla against
> > > fontconfig 3 months back. But package maintainer of fontconfig closed it
> > > instantly and made it upstream[2].
> > >    I submitted required input in upstream bug. But, still no response
> > > from upstream. If package maintainer is not willing to do code level
> > > changes and also upstream then I will see no progress to add Maithili
> > > language support in Fedora. So even if we will get translations and all
> > > other changes done in Fedora by F10 release to support Maithili, users
> > > will not able to see Maithili language selection in gdm.
> >
> > There is a misconception that bugs should be fixed as soon as they are
> >  submitted.  That's simply not how it is.
>
> I don't see this is misconception. I have seen and still working on
> bugs that have been reported years ago. I have never said that bugs
> should be fixed soon.

Then I don't understand how relevant it is that you submitted the patch
last month.
> > You submitted the Fedora bug in April, without attaching any patch or
> >  anything.
>
> I am not fontconfig maintainer/developer so how am I supposed to
> know that what things need to fix bugs. Its responsibility of bug
> person to whom bug got assigned to ask reporter for patch.

Sure, and the maintainers/developers fix it whenever they have time to.
> > I upstreamed it early May, the upstream maintainer asked for
> >  a patch on May 24, and released fontconfig 2.6 at the end of May.  If
> >  you have submitted the patch in time, it would have been in latest
> >  fontconfig release and hence in rawhide, but you didn't submit a patch
> >  until July, and now expect it to suddenly appear in rawhide.
>
> And then why you not CC'ed me to upstream bug. Does that look good
> to you? When I tried to search whats current status in upstream then
> only I realized that upstream is waiting for me. You should have asked
> me on IRC/mail to submit patch there.
>   The only thing What I really don't like about you is that you never
> replied back to me that you are in need of input. I never said I am
> owner for all issues(say fontconfig)

It's not my job to CC you.  I upstreamed the bug and posted the upstream
link on the Fedora bug.  You were notified of that.  It's your job to
jump on the upstream bug if you care.
> > I've talked to fontconfig maintainer to try to get a new version out in
> >  August.  *That*'s how it should work.
>
> So then where am I comes in picture?. You and upstream is the only
> responsible to decide on issues then I should have not been asked to
> submit patch.

You submitted a patch.  Thanks for that.
> > > Can anyone provide inputs on this issue? Otherwise I will move ahead
> > > and will commit required changes in rawhide and build new package as I
> > > can see ACLs are open on fontconfig.
> >
> > I wouldn't particularly like that.  Just because it's open doesn't
> >  mean...
>
> It should mean anyone can fix issue. If not then make it CLOSED why
> ACLs are open to everyone? Thats is reason I mail first before
> modifying CVS.

My apartment's door is open most of the time too.  It's not because
everyone can come in.

On Thu, 2008-08-07 at 08:08 +0530, Parag N(पराग़) wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On 8/6/08, Behdad Esfahbod  wrote:
> > On Wed, 2008-08-06 at 13:03 +0530, Parag N(पराग़) wrote:
> > > So even if we will get translations and all
> > > other changes done in Fedora by F10 release to support Maithili, users
> > > will not able to see Maithili language selection in gdm.
> >
> > Also note that this is not accurate.  If DejaVu Sans has Maithili
> >  support, things should still work.  Also, even if you patch rawhide to
> >  add orth file to fontconfig, not everything works.  Pango for example
> >  needs to regenerate its language tables against the new fontconfig
> >  language database and that does *not* happen with a rebuild of Pango.
>  I think I asked only about gdm language selection issue. If other
>
> things will not get fixed in time then we will miss support for
> Maithili language.

gdm uses Pango too.
> My only question was that why no update is given
> on downstream or upstream bug?  I should have wait if any update is
> given on fontconfig bug before asking on this issue on mailing list.

In general what I'm trying to say is that, we have time based releases
for a reason.  If a bugfix/feature/etc doesn't make it for F10, no big
deal, there's always F10+1.  It's a bit hard to understand at first, but
you will appreciate it after a couple of times seeing what disasters
rushing things can get you into.

Anyway, back to work.

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Wed, 2008-08-06 at 13:03 +0530, Parag N(पराग़) wrote:
> So even if we will get translations and all
> other changes done in Fedora by F10 release to support Maithili, users
> will not able to see Maithili language selection in gdm.

Also note that this is not accurate.  If DejaVu Sans has Maithili
support, things should still work.  Also, even if you patch rawhide to
add orth file to fontconfig, not everything works.  Pango for example
needs to regenerate its language tables against the new fontconfig
language database and that does *not* happen with a rebuild of Pango.

[Parag Nemade]

Hi,

On 8/6/08, Behdad Esfahbod  wrote:
> On Wed, 2008-08-06 at 13:03 +0530, Parag N(पराग़) wrote:
> > So even if we will get translations and all
> > other changes done in Fedora by F10 release to support Maithili, users
> > will not able to see Maithili language selection in gdm.
>
> Also note that this is not accurate.  If DejaVu Sans has Maithili
>  support, things should still work.  Also, even if you patch rawhide to
>  add orth file to fontconfig, not everything works.  Pango for example
>  needs to regenerate its language tables against the new fontconfig
>  language database and that does *not* happen with a rebuild of Pango.

I think I asked only about gdm language selection issue. If other
things will not get fixed in time then we will miss support for
Maithili language. My only question was that why no update is given
on downstream or upstream bug?  I should have wait if any update is
given on fontconfig bug before asking on this issue on mailing list.

Regards,
Parag.