[irc-support-sig] #50: Silenced and insulted within minutes for a polite disagreement.

Wednesday, 18 May 2011

#50: Silenced and insulted within minutes for a polite disagreement.
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Reporter:  erodgers  |       Owner:           
    Type:  feedback  |      Status:  new      
Priority:  minor     |   Milestone:  Fedora 14
 Version:            |    Severity:  Neutral  
Keywords:            |  
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 Please fill in this template fully and provide all requested information.
 Incomplete tickets may be dropped.

 This feedback is:
 {{{
 [ ] Positive
 [X] Negative
 [ ] Neutral
 }}}

 My IRC nick is: erodgers

 Please briefly describe the interaction that caused you to file this
 ticket:

 Below find the transcript.

 Joined IRC for the first time with the honest intent to help and play
 nice.  I rubbed a regular the wrong way and was quieted.

 A newbie user was having great difficulty with a basic task, and was put
 down for trying to do "sudo su".  I attempted to explain why this was a
 valid method in the README containing the instruction, and was put down as
 spreading false and wrong info.

 I did escalate the issue a bit because I was flustered by the harsh
 treatment, and I am sorry for that.

 I'm only here because I feel it is a big mistake to IMMEDIATELY attack a
 new contributor. I know for a fact that I spread no false information as I
 was accused of, and this is all a big misunderstanding.

 The user with the driver issue was quite green and wearing on all of us a
 bit, so I understand the animosity toward him, unpleasant as it was.

 Please note other IRC nicks that are involved in this interaction:
 zeitgeist

 Please describe what action or positive change could be adopted based on
 this feedback:

 I'd simply like to make it known that people reaching out to help others
 with Fedora need a bit more patience than I received.

 Any additional notes or logs:

 <smithxi> dcr226: can you just tell me how to make the package from the
 command line if it's on the desktop?
 <zeitgeist> smithxi·: su -
  yum install kernel-devel
  exit
  cd ~/Desktop/realtek-package
  make
  su -
  make install; depmod -ae; reboot
 <smithxi> i can't cd as root
 <zeitgeist> can't can't can't
 <dcr226> failed to type "exit"
 <zeitgeist> i see you saying "i can't" quite a lot..
 <smithxi> make package-name said nothing to do
 <erodgers> After make; su -, need to cd back to user desktop.
 <smithxi> nothing to be done for...
 <zeitgeist> i suggest you copy what i just typed out to a text file, i
 won't be typing it again.
 <-- MostafaDaneshvar has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 --> AppelonD (~AppelonD(a)0x5551c026.adsl.cybercity.dk) has joined #fedora
 <-- cheater__ has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 <zeitgeist> every command i gave you above should be given from the
 ~/Desktop/realtek (or whatever this folder is) folder. to determine what
 dir/folder you're in use: pwd
  the print working directory (pwd) command tells you where you are
 <smithxi> i'm in the directory
 <-- KageSenshi has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
 <smithxi> i try to make the package as user and it won't let me
 <dcr226> smithxi, yum install @development-tools
  smithxi, also *hint* slow down and read stuff
 <zeitgeist> smithxi·: it's a tar file, untar it first
 <smithxi> oh crap, that's what i forgot
 <zeitgeist> you don't "make the package" . you untar it and make the
files
 within it
 <smithxi> how do I untar
 <dmlloyd> Add/Remove software seems to be stuck in a "Waiting in Queue"
 state.  Is there some process or lock file I should look for to fix it?
 <zeitgeist> read the tar manpage or use file-roller
  i.e. just click on it
 <erodgers> tar -zxvf <file>
 <-- gholms|work (~gholms@fedora/gholms) has left #fedora ("Leaving.")
 <dcr226> dmlloyd, how long have you been waiting?
 <dmlloyd> a day or so :)
 <dcr226> yuck
 <dmlloyd> I've been doing yum on the command line in the meantime
 <smithxi> thank you
 <zeitgeist> haha
 <dmlloyd> but now I want to use the gui to install some games for these
 guys
 <zeitgeist> dmlloyd·: yum should always be engaged on the command line
 --> pinhead (~pinhead(a)178-190-255-217.adsl.highway.telekom.at) has joined
 #fedora
 <dmlloyd> gotta have tuxracer!
 <zeitgeist> use yumex
 <dcr226> dmlloyd, I don't use add/remove (since about F7 I think), but
I'd
 be tempted to just use yum from now on
  or yumex, yeah
 <dmlloyd> yumex, hm sounds fun
  I'll try it
  I wonder if I can uninstall add/remove then
 <dcr226> just ignore it, thats what I do
 <dmlloyd> if I leave stuff around they're just gonna use it
  :)
 <zeitgeist> yumex is a far more robust gui, but should only be used during
 multiple package installs
 <dmlloyd> I would if it were for me
 --> Dp67 (~rberry@fedora/N3LRX) has joined #fedora
 <zeitgeist> you should always use yum from the command line, much easier
 to get help if something goes wrong
 --> KageSenshi (~kagesensh@fedora/KageSenshi) has joined #fedora
 <-- Scrum (~Pietro(a)189-72-5-57.paemt702.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br) has left
 #fedora
  gcasella has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
  diap has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
  AppelonD has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 <dmlloyd> yeah I prefer yum when I know exactly what package I want to add
 or remove
 <-- Tac_Home has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 <dcr226> dmlloyd, well, there is always yum search
 <-- cobra-the-joker has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 <dmlloyd> yeah that's good but sometimes you want to browse by category
  I don't think search does category, does it?
 <dcr226> I guess not
 <-- smithxi has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 <zeitgeist> if you're creative with your query it can do pretty much
 whatever you want
 <-- jessicajames has quit (Quit: Leaving)
 --> bitkiller (~bitkiller(a)189.26.56.119.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br) has
 joined #fedora
 <erodgers> yum info is good, but I agree, I like having a categorized
 list.
 <dcr226> I'm a big fan of yum, I spent some time last month digging around
 inside it - very complete imho
 <-- pinhead (~pinhead(a)178-190-255-217.adsl.highway.telekom.at) has left
 #fedora
 --- supervacuo is now known as superacuo
 <dcr226> hence the reason fedbot now knows how to yum
  @rversion 14 x32 tuxracer
 <-- ToKy has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
 --> smithxi (~mesof(a)adsl-68-248-226-125.dsl.milwwi.ameritech.net) has
 joined #fedora
 <fedbot> dcr226: sorry, I was unable to locate that package. To use this
 plugin, you must be specific with package names
 <-- tazer72 has quit (Quit: leaving)
 <smithxi> okay I did it properly, but i still don't see a wireless option
 in the tray icon
 <dcr226> ok, so fedbot doesn't know how to yum :-)
 <smithxi> dcr226: you still here?
 <dcr226> smithxi, lspci -k | fpaste
 <nirik> sure it does, there's just no package named that. ;)
  @rversion 14 x32 extremetuxracer
 <fedbot> nirik: extremetuxracer-0.4-3.fc12.i686 Fedora 14 - i386|size
 26MB|Date Fri Jul 24 12:00:00 2009
  nirik: extremetuxracer-0.4-5.fc14.i686 Fedora 14 - i386 - Updates|size
 26MB|Date Mon Nov 15 12:00:00 2010
 <smithxi> dcr226: http://fpaste.org/Pa92/
 <dcr226> nirik, ok so its actually *me* that doesn't know how to yum ;-)
  smithxi, the module still isn't loaded. did you make install and depmod?
 <zeitgeist> smithxi·: after you build and install the driver as per my
 instructions, you have to reboot
 <smithxi> i did not depmod
 <zeitgeist> critical: <zeitgeist> make install; depmod -ae; reboot
  not too good at details..
 <smithxi> thank you
 <fedbot> Please visit our trac instance at https://fedorahosted.org/irc-
 support-sig/ and file a feedback ticket telling us about your experience
 in #fedora. Thanks in advance for your feedback.
 --- Klainn is now known as Klainn-away
 <smithxi> that wasn't in the tutorial
 <-- smithxi has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
 <zeitgeist> yea, i didn't type that out to you 23 minutes ago or anything
 * zeitgeist often hallucinates
 <Southern_Gentlem> time to switch out the IV
  **yawn*
 --> Asuryan (~vally(a)p5DDB7BE1.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #fedora
 <zeitgeist> more #fedora-mkultra experiments?
 --> smithxi (~mesof(a)adsl-68-248-226-125.dsl.milwwi.ameritech.net) has
 joined #fedora
 <-- radez has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3)
 <smithxi> okay it is done, but I do not see any wireless options in the
 popup dialogue
 <dcr226> smithxi, does lspci -k report your module yet?
 --> arall (~adam(a)50-48-86-217.dsl2-fairport.ny.frontiernet.net) has joined
 #fedora
 <smithxi> http://fpaste.org/CMLg/
  how can I tell if it's reported?
 <dcr226> read your own fpaste
 <smithxi> but what indicated it?
  02:00.0?
 <dcr226> the bit that says "Kernel driver in use:"
 * dcr226 nods
 <smithxi> kernel driver in use: atllc
  so it is in use?
 <-- nmudgal has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
 <zeitgeist> no
 <-- arall has quit (Client Quit)
 <zeitgeist> after all the clumsy behavior, i'd guess you didn't do it
 correctly
 --> ardian (~ardian@fedora/ardian) has joined #fedora
 <zeitgeist> for you, i'd suggest installing F15
 <erodgers> 2nd
 <smithxi> the only error displayed was something about needs -E not -e
 <zeitgeist> the driver is built in to the kernel, i don't think you have
 the aptitude to manually install wireless drivers
 <smithxi> zeitgeist: can I just upgrade to it?
 <zeitgeist> no
  it really drains the room when a 5 minute job turns into hours
 <smithxi> would -AE fix it instead of -ae?
 <dcr226> no
  reading would fix it
 --> FastZ (~root(a)207.144.121.221) has joined #fedora
 <-- FastZ (~root(a)207.144.121.221) has left #fedora
 <zeitgeist> also reading the README that comes with the official realtek
 package
 --> Cygnia (~cygnia(a)76-191-203-178.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) has joined
 #fedora
  FastZ (~root(a)207.144.121.221) has joined #fedora
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 <-- FastZ (~root(a)207.144.121.221) has left #fedora
 <smithxi> i can't sudo su
 --> sraue (~stephan@xbmc/staff/sraue) has joined #fedora
 * dcr226 goes for the litmus test...
 <dcr226> smithxi, modprobe -l | grep 8192 | fpaste
 <smithxi> errors on line 995 and 97
 <zeitgeist> uh, sudo and su are 2 different things
  completely unrelated
  nowhere did i (or anyone else) tell you to "sudo su"
 <smithxi> well the directions say "sudo su"
 <zeitgeist> then they are written by someone who understands neither
 <smithxi> dcr226: http://fpaste.org/nWUZ/
 <erodgers> I do it all the time.  It's written for a machine with no root
 password.
 <zeitgeist> you do it all the time, so that makes it right because you do
 something you don't understand?
 <dcr226> sudo su makes no sense at all
 <smithxi> how do you reboot into the latest kernel?
  dcr226: how do you reboot into the latest kernel?
 <erodgers> I'm just saying, if you have no root password, sudo su - does
 the trick.  amy people work this way, including apparently the author of
 the RT README.
 <zeitgeist> it's WRONG.
 <erodgers> k.
 <zeitgeist> read the manpage for each,
 <N3LRX> if you are updated your machine will automatically boot to the
 latest kernel on next reboot unless you choose otherwise.
 <dcr226> +1, pointless
 <zeitgeist> it doesn't make any sense
 <erodgers> 15 works that way by default.
 --> gcasella (gcasella@CPE002699744f9b-
 CM00222d5a86fd.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #fedora
 <dcr226> no it doesn't
 <smithxi> 15 has the drivers I need?
 <dcr226> 15 has sudo enabled by default
 <zeitgeist> good god.
 <erodgers> Click "Admin user" on install for your regular user.
 <zeitgeist> dcr226·: have fun with these chuckleheads
 <dcr226> and you optionally get added to %wheel if you click "admin
user"
  zeitgeist, I'm outta here - Tea calling :-)
 * zeitgeist high 5's dcr226
 <erodgers> Yes.  No biggie.  Just saying.
 <zeitgeist> just saying "you're wrong"
 <erodgers> Not really, but OK.
 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> Tea? Is that what you are calling her this week instead
 of $HOTDATE dcr226?
  ;)
 <smithxi> will drivers eventually just be released?
 <dcr226> LOL
 <zeitgeist> you can take our advice and LEARN, or you can continue on with
 false info
 <dcr226> EvilBob-Vote4Me, she tidied the house today....scary
 <erodgers> Would you like to hear from me why I'm not wrong?
 <zeitgeist> no, because you are.
 <smithxi> zeitgeist: what do I need to do?
 <erodgers> There you go.
 <zeitgeist> smithxi·: go install f15, or windows
 <smithxi> f15 will simply have the drivers?
 <zeitgeist> yes
 <smithxi> where can I download it?
 <zeitgeist> as i've said at least 3 times now
  really?
 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> F15 will be released on next Tuesday
 <erodgers> It went gold yesterday.
 <-- smarthall has quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
 <zeitgeist> erodgers·: end your trolling nonsense
 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> the final release candidate is basically the same and
 available at
 http://serverbeach1.fedoraproject.org/pub/alt/stage/15.RC3/Fedora/
 <erodgers> Sorry, looks like we got off on the wrong foot.
 <zeitgeist> you have only given out false or incorrect information
 <erodgers> Harsh, and wrong.
 <smithxi> EvilBob-Vote4Me: will there be a cd version?
  will wireless drivers ever just be released for 14?
 <dcr226> erodgers, you should perhaps read the manpage for both sudo and
 su
 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> smithxi: Apparently not
 <erodgers> <-RHCE, 15 years sysadmin.
 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> smithxi: I can not comment on the drivers question
 <smithxi> such bs
 <zeitgeist> erodgers·: bs.
 <Southern_Gentlem> erodgers, take my advise and drop it, and go take a
 break
 <dcr226> smithxi, doubtful, they are a part of newer kernels. which I
 doubt will end up on f14
 <erodgers> Want my number?
 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> erodgers: zip it back up, no one wants to take part in
 your contest
 <Southern_Gentlem> erodgers,  second warning
 <erodgers> 805010794254612
 <Southern_Gentlem> @quiet erodgers
 --- fedbot sets mode +q #fedora erodgers!*@*
  fedbot sets mode -q #fedora erodgers!*@*
 <fedbot> erodgers, You have been quieted in this channel temporarily.
 Please read http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Channel_FAQ and consider
 changing your approach and/or the behavior that is disrupting the channel.
 If you feel this action was in error, please file a ticket at
 https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/
 <fedbot> Please visit our trac instance at https://fedorahosted.org/irc-
 support-sig/ and file a feedback ticket telling us about your experience
 in #fedora. Thanks in advance for your feedback.
 * dcr226 hrms
 <smithxi> well thanks for the help guys, i'll try 15
  bye
 <-- smithxi (~mesof(a)adsl-68-248-226-125.dsl.milwwi.ameritech.net) has left
 #fedora
 <EvilBob-Vote4Me> smithxi: Best of luck
 --- fedbot sets mode +q #fedora erodgers!*@*
 <fedbot> erodgers, You have been quieted in this channel temporarily.
 Please read http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Channel_FAQ and consider
 changing your approach and/or the behavior that is disrupting the channel.
 If you feel this action was in error, please file a ticket at
 https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/
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 #fedora
 <jpuellma> that guy's not really being disruptive in my scrollback; looks
 like he just doesn't think there's any problem with someone wantign to
 sudo su

 Thanks for your feedback!

-- 
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ticket/50>
irc-support-sig <irc://irc.freenode.net/#fedora>
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