Plan for tomorrow's irc support sig meeting (2011-05-05)

[Robert 'Bob' Jensen]

Here's what I have for an agenda for tomorrow's (2011-05-05) meeting,
which will be held at 17:00UTC/13:00Eastern in #fedora-meeting on
irc.freenode.net. I will not be available for the meeting, nirik will
cover for me, thank you Kevin.

Feel free to reply to this with additional topics, or bring them up in
the "open floor" section of the meeting.

#topic Week in review
http://fedora.theglaserfamily.org/ircstats/fedora-weekly.html

#topic feedback tickets
https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/report/1

-- Bob

------------------------------------------------------------------------
|       Robert 'Bob' Jensen        ||       Fedora Unity Founder       |
|       bob(a)fedoraunity.org        ||      http://fedoraunity.org/     |
|                   http://bjensen.fedorapeople.org/                   |
|                http://blogs.fedoraunity.org/bobjensen                |
|                   http://www.facebook.com/rpjensen                   |
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Summary/Minutes from today's irc support sig meeting (2011-05-05)

[Kevin Fenzi]

=============================================
#fedora-meeting: IRC Support SIG (2011-05-05)
=============================================

Meeting started by nirik at 17:00:01 UTC. The full logs are available at
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2011-05-05/irc-support-si...

Meeting summary
---------------
* init process  (nirik, 17:00:01)

* Week in review  (nirik, 17:05:15)
  * LINK: http://fedora.theglaserfamily.org/ircstats/fedora-weekly.html
    (nirik, 17:05:15)

* feedback tickets  (nirik, 17:08:37)
  * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/report/1   (nirik,
    17:08:38)

* Open Floor  (nirik, 17:10:09)
  * LINK: http://trac.edgewall.org/ticket/4722   (ciupicri, 17:30:28)

Meeting ended at 17:41:52 UTC.




Action Items
------------





Action Items, by person
-----------------------
* **UNASSIGNED**
  * (none)




People Present (lines said)
---------------------------
* nirik (60)
* thomasj (37)
* ciupicri (32)
* Southern_Gentlem (12)
* PauseBazinga (11)
* zodbot (4)
* vettyp (2)
* N3LRX (2)
* DiscordianUK (2)
* Sonar_Gal (1)
--
17:00:01 <nirik> #startmeeting IRC Support SIG (2011-05-05)
17:00:01 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu May  5 17:00:01 2011 UTC.  The chair is nirik.
Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:00:01 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:00:01 <nirik> #meetingname irc-support-sig
17:00:01 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'irc-support-sig'
17:00:01 <nirik> #topic init process
17:00:10 <nirik> who all is around for an irc support sig meeting.
17:00:23 * DiscordianUK 
17:01:25 <vettyp> nirik: I am here to watch and learn
17:01:34 <nirik> cool. welcome.
17:01:39 * N3LRX 
17:04:19 * Southern_Gentlem 
17:04:38 <vettyp> thanks
17:04:39 <thomasj> Oh, already rollcall?
17:04:48 <thomasj> Present
17:05:15 <nirik> #topic Week in review
17:05:15 <nirik> http://fedora.theglaserfamily.org/ircstats/fedora-weekly.html
17:05:34 <nirik> pretty busy week.
17:05:37 <nirik> lots of f15 stuff.
17:06:10 <nirik> anything anyone cares to note from the previous week?
17:06:30 <Southern_Gentlem> ooks fairly normal
17:06:33 <Southern_Gentlem> l
17:06:46 <thomasj> omg.. i made it on #21   woooo
17:07:15 <nirik> thomasj: welcome back. ;)
17:07:16 <Southern_Gentlem> thomasj, come on and knock me off the top
17:07:22 <ciupicri> I made it #11 ... I'm even more surprised
17:07:23 <thomasj> nirik, thanks :)
17:07:43 <thomasj> Southern_Gentlem, i had that once, it was hard work :)
17:08:03 <thomasj> And just for a couple days
17:08:33 <nirik> ok, if nothing else for week in review, onward...
17:08:37 <nirik> #topic feedback tickets
17:08:38 <nirik> https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/report/1
17:09:00 <nirik> .title https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ticket/48
17:09:02 <zodbot> nirik: #48 (NFS shares mount as nobody even if uid/gid match
(F14)) - irc-support-sig - Trac
17:09:20 <nirik> kudos to mutik on that
17:09:25 <Southern_Gentlem> +1 mutk
17:09:32 <DiscordianUK> indeed
17:09:46 <thomasj> kudos yeah
17:09:57 <nirik> thats the only open ticket right now.
17:10:04 <nirik> which brings us to...
17:10:09 <nirik> #topic Open Floor
17:10:32 <nirik> anyone have anything for open floor?
17:10:35 <ciupicri> what's the meaning of open floor?
17:10:35 <Southern_Gentlem> move to close #48
17:10:54 <nirik> ciupicri: anyone can bring up topics related to the group that
should be discussed.
17:10:54 <thomasj> Topics not on the agenda
17:11:39 <ciupicri> I see. Well I was thinking about the feedback. In order for
someone to give positive (or other) feedback he must create a Fedora account
17:11:39 <Southern_Gentlem> shall i close #48?
17:11:52 <thomasj> Southern_Gentlem, +1
17:11:53 <nirik> Southern_Gentlem: sure. thanks.
17:12:03 <nirik> ciupicri: indeed true.
17:12:20 <Southern_Gentlem> ciupicri,  they have to register to get in the #fedora
channel
17:12:26 <ciupicri> which newbies might not want to do for various reasons:
laziness, tons of other accounts etc.
17:12:30 <nirik> We could open the trac to anyone able to make tickets, but then I
suspect we would have a ton of spam.
17:12:52 <ciupicri> Southern_Gentlem, register on FreeNode, but not on Fedora as far
as I know
17:13:34 <Southern_Gentlem> ciupicri,  we actually have discussed this before and
someone came up with more good reasons to require registration
17:13:36 <thomasj> ciupicri, that was discussed before we decided it. That way we
don't have hit-and-run reporter. Reporter have to think about what they write. And not
just: #fedora sucks.
17:15:26 <ciupicri> nirik, regarding spam maybe an anti-spam system could be
developed which would require the submitter to send an answer to fedora's bot on the
#fedora channel or something
17:15:29 <nirik> also, there is a mailing list.
17:15:37 <nirik> anyone who wishes can subscribe there and post.
17:15:37 <PauseBazinga> there's a room that you get redirected to as a
non-registered user, is there a bot in there that'll tell folks about registering on
freenode to clear up any confusion?
17:15:51 <nirik> ciupicri: feel free to implement such a trac plugin for us. ;)
17:15:52 <thomasj> yes
17:15:56 <thomasj> sorry
17:15:59 <thomasj> PauseBazinga, yes
17:16:01 <Southern_Gentlem> PauseBazinga,  yep
17:16:13 <PauseBazinga> thomasj, rog.  seems sufficient
17:16:26 <ciupicri> nirik, I'll think about it, I just wanted some feedback
about the idea. I don't want to implement it then notice that no one likes the idea
:-)
17:16:37 <PauseBazinga> I picked up fedora a couple of weeks ago, I didn't have
any trouble figuring it out
17:16:46 <Southern_Gentlem> You are here in #fedora-unregistered because you are not
identified with freenode. Please: a) register - http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
(including email step) b) configure your client to identify -
http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#identify and/or /msg nickserv identify then c) /join #fedora
for support.
17:17:01 <nirik> ciupicri: yeah, worth talking about. If we can think of some way to
avoid the spam, might be worth doing.
17:17:09 <thomasj> PauseBazinga, yet some people just need to learn to read and
understand the message posted in -unreg :)
17:17:14 <Southern_Gentlem> PauseBazinga,  that is the message the bot sends to
everyone entering the -unregistered channel
17:17:50 <ciupicri> nirik, so the user fills a report on Trac then the Fedora bot
ask on #fedora a confirmation from the user. This is what I have in mind. Does it sound
good to you?
17:18:03 <N3LRX> Does trac have a captcha option?
17:18:22 <nirik> ciupicri: I don't think that will work.
17:18:30 <PauseBazinga> the captcha wouldn't quite provide the same
functionality
17:18:35 <nirik> ciupicri: how can the bot see a ticket when it's not yet
filed?
17:18:40 <PauseBazinga> you can still hit-and-run a captcha
17:18:51 <nirik> and how can it ack it ? (note that the bot and trac instance do not
run at all on the same machines)
17:19:36 <ciupicri> nirik, the ticket enters in an unconfirmed/possible spam state
or something and after its confirmation, it enters into a normal state
17:19:43 <nirik> there may be a trac captcha plugin, not sure.
17:20:03 <nirik> ciupicri: I don't think trac has any such state, but you could
ask upstream trac developers.
17:20:11 <ciupicri> nirik, or even better the fedbot could accept simple kudos
commands
17:20:32 <ciupicri> something like @fedora kudos +1 nirik
17:20:33 <nirik> yeah, that should be quite possible in a while...
17:20:51 <ciupicri> or @fedora kudos +1 nirik He helped me with email...
17:21:10 <nirik> there's a karma plugin. Once we update the bot we should be
able to have that available.
17:21:12 <thomasj> IIRC one of the reasons was as well to prevent people just spit
out that $nick sucks bigtime or like that. People who just want to spit that out don't
want to register. Normally.
17:21:37 * thomasj can't recall all the reasons.
17:21:38 <ciupicri> thomasj, we could limit the rate of this stuff
17:22:05 <thomasj> ciupicri, how?
17:22:14 <ciupicri> thomasj, e.g. one kudo command per nick per hour
17:23:18 <nirik> sure, it's all a matter of code. ;)
17:23:35 <ciupicri> nirik, the code of the matrix? :-)
17:24:03 <nirik> anyhow, lets all think on it and come up with concrete ideas... ?
17:24:09 <PauseBazinga> sounds like an entry in the FAQ titled, "Why do I have
to register with Freenode to get support from #fedora?" would do well to explain the
situation to the uninformed and also remind us what we came up with in future meetings
when it gets brought up again.
17:24:15 * thomasj will re-think about the plus and minus of the registration, and try to
find the log
17:24:36 * Sonar_Gal sneaks in late
17:24:44 * thomasj waves at Sonar_Gal
17:25:12 <nirik> welcome Sonar_Gal
17:25:36 <ciupicri> thomasj, when you mention registration you're making me
think about my brother who does not want to register even to report a bug to bugzilla from
abrtd
17:25:59 <thomasj> Yeah, some people don't like that.
17:26:00 <ciupicri> thomasj, he starts saying stuff like why should I register and
so on...
17:26:22 <thomasj> ciupicri, so we're able to contact him
17:26:31 <thomasj> ciupicri, bugzilla isn't a one-way thing :)
17:26:56 <ciupicri> indeed, but even an incomplete bug report might be better than
no bug report at all
17:26:59 <thomasj> Often enough we need to ask the reporter for more information :)
17:27:03 <thomasj> no
17:27:17 <nirik> it can be worse.
17:27:18 <nirik> :)
17:27:26 <PauseBazinga> incomplete bug report sounds annoying
17:27:26 <thomasj> yeah, sure
17:27:27 <ciupicri> that's why I've said _might_ :-)
17:27:40 <nirik> yeah, you never know...
17:27:54 <nirik> even abrt reports often the reporter never replies...
17:28:04 <nirik> but I guess we are drifting off topic. ;)
17:28:06 <thomasj> Especially abrt reports :)
17:28:22 <nirik> Anyone have anything else for open floor? or shall we close out the
meeting this week?
17:28:35 <ciupicri> anyway regarding those kudos, what about openid based login?
17:28:43 <thomasj> good idea
17:28:45 <ciupicri> like the stackexchange sites?
17:29:18 <thomasj> openid is used a lot. good idea
17:29:37 <thomasj> The question is, does trac supports that
17:29:52 * thomasj is not able to code that in. Not yet.
17:29:59 <ciupicri> are we limited to trac or is trac preferable?
17:30:25 <thomasj> Well, more preferable.
17:30:28 <ciupicri> http://trac.edgewall.org/ticket/4722
17:30:37 <nirik> we currently have a trac at fedorahosted.
17:30:41 <nirik> it's an old trac version there.
17:31:19 <thomasj> closed enhancement: wontfix     yay
17:31:20 <ciupicri> yeah, so old that the web based version control browser crashes
if you use a data from the far future :-)
17:32:18 <nirik> again, I am open to the idea of having feedback more open, but I
think it needs an actual plan before we can really see if we want to implement it.
17:32:23 <PauseBazinga> " authopenid-plugin seems to be working and maintained,
so I'm closing this ticket."
17:32:46 <PauseBazinga> that was the closer's comment
17:33:12 <thomasj> I'm for, lets check the openid idea and review the topic next
week.
17:33:14 <ciupicri> and the latest change from that plugin is dated 2011-04-16
17:33:33 <nirik> I don't see that packaged in fedora/epel off hand.
17:33:43 <nirik> unless it's in the base trac package.
17:34:18 <ciupicri> nirik, couldn't we package it?
17:34:25 <nirik> sure.
17:34:33 <nirik> well, provided it's free, etc.
17:34:37 <thomasj> Proposal: check out the openid idea (if possible with trac) and
review next week.
17:34:52 <ciupicri> +1 for thomasj's proposal
17:35:04 <PauseBazinga> what's the trac version currently?
17:35:31 <PauseBazinga> looks like there was a patch released three days ago to
support trac .12
17:35:32 <nirik> 0.10.5
17:35:39 <ciupicri> nirik, license='Trac license'
17:35:52 <nirik> plans are ongoing to move to 0.12, but it will not be quick
17:36:06 <ciupicri> nirik, what about python-openid>=2.1.0 ?
17:36:31 <nirik> no idea. does that work with trac? I don't have any idea
17:37:43 <ciupicri> Version:        2.1.1 is in EPEL5
17:38:27 <nirik> ciupicri: perhaps you could investigate and get back to us if it
will help any?
17:39:09 <ciupicri> nirik, I think so. I don't have any experience with trac
except as a casual user.
17:39:34 <thomasj> ciupicri, i'm happy to help you with that.
17:39:51 * nirik could try, but it would not be high on my priority list. ;)
17:40:50 <nirik> ok, if nothing else, lets close out and revisit next week.
17:40:53 <thomasj> ciupicri, probably stay in touch via email..
thomasj(a)fedoraproject.org   Mail me and i send you back what i have at Sunday evening
(europe timezone).
17:41:10 <nirik> thanks thomasj / ciupicri
17:41:18 <thomasj> np
17:41:28 <ciupicri> thomasj, ok
17:41:46 <nirik> Thanks for coming everyone!
17:41:52 <nirik> #endmeeting