[irc-support-sig] #100: eol fedora questions and questions from non-fedora users

[fedora-badges]

#100: eol fedora questions and questions from non-fedora users
---------------------+------------------------
Reporter:  bookwar   |       Owner:
    Type:  feedback  |      Status:  new
Priority:  minor     |   Milestone:  Fedora 16
 Version:            |    Severity:  Neutral
Keywords:            |  Blocked By:
Blocking:            |
---------------------+------------------------
 This feedback is:
  {{{
  [ ] Positive
  [ ] Negative
  [X] Neutral
  }}}

 '''My IRC nick is:''' bookwar

 '''Please briefly describe the interaction that caused you to file this
 ticket:'''

  The situation when people are kicked or banned from the support channel,
 while they ask fedora-related questions in a reasonable and polite way
 seems to be wrong for me.

  Once I saw how the person was sent out because he wasn't a Fedora user.
 He asked if there exists one specific package in Fedora repos. And he said
 he could not use yum to find it. Instead of giving him link for koji or
 Fedora package database or direct answer, DiscordianUK said "we support
 only Fedora users here".

  Today it was fenrus02, who kicked user for asking rpm and gpg key
 question because the question was motivated by Fedora Core 3.

  Sure, I have read the channel FAQ that this is "Fedora End-user Support
 Channel" and also I am aware of what EOL means and I agree that it is
 important to persuade people to switch to supported versions. But I think
 the primary goal of this channel is - to provide help and to educate each
 other about Fedora-way of doing things. And, thus, any technical question
 asked properly should be welcomed despite of its origin.

  Of course it is a completely different situation, when user asks version-
 specific question. When the issue can not be modelled in the current
 Fedora release, the EOL rule is indeed justified. And I can only suggest
 to use "we cannot support all the old versions here" instead of "get
out,
 we don't support you" kind of arguments.


 '''Please describe what action or positive change could be adopted based
 on this feedback:'''

  I don't expect any specific actions. I think you do great job in general.
 But, please, when you decide what's appropriate and what's not, try to
 think about question itself, not who asked it and why he did it.

  And also, when you think that something _is_ inappropriate, don't throw
 the user away as a piece of garbage. It is the question itself which is
 inappropriate, not the person who asked it. The person could come later
 and ask something better next time.

 And the main idea of my ticket is: People, who don't use current Fedora at
 this very moment, also have rights to ask general technical Fedora-related
 questions at the Fedora Support IRC channel.

 '''Any additional notes or logs:'''

  These are just two examples I have in mind right now, but I don't want to
 go into details here. This is the general idea I am speaking about.

 {{{
 (11:54:25 PM) Edulix: can somebody please tell which fedora package
 provides the binary xsltproc?
 (11:55:25 PM) bookwar1: libxslt
 (11:55:32 PM) Edulix: bookwar1: thanks
 (12:00:35 AM) EvilBob: Edulix: the yum man page talks about "provides"
 (12:01:12 AM) Edulix: EvilBob: cool
 (12:01:15 AM) EvilBob: Edulix: So "yum provides */xsltproc" would get you
 the desired info
 (12:01:35 AM) EvilBob: Edulix: You can also use rpm to look this up
 (12:01:46 AM) DiscordianUK: or repoquery
 (12:02:19 AM) EvilBob: Edulix: You would QUERY the database for the FILE
 in question, see the man page for more info
 (12:02:29 AM) Edulix: EvilBob: but I don't have fedora installed so
 (12:02:35 AM) Edulix: I need something online :P
 (12:02:37 AM) EvilBob: Sure
 (12:03:10 AM) EvilBob: No time like NOW to get it installed
 (12:03:15 AM) randomuser: Edulix, other package managers probably have
 this feature too
 (12:04:21 AM) Edulix: EvilBob: I'm creating a package for
 fedora,opensuse,mandriva,debian,ubuntu,windows,linux,mac...
 (12:05:21 AM) Edulix: EvilBob: and no I'm not installing all those, I'll
 let others do it, I'm using opensuse build service to create the package
 for all the linuxes and then ask people to test it
 (12:05:40 AM) DiscordianUK: yikes
 (12:06:37 AM) hicham: Edulix: there are online websites
 (12:06:42 AM) hicham: that provides these tools
 (12:06:46 AM) Edulix: hicham: please tell me =)
 (12:06:52 AM) EvilBob: You can't be bothered to test your own bits...
 (12:06:55 AM) EvilBob: WOW
 (12:07:10 AM) DiscordianUK: I'm tiring of this
 (12:07:58 AM) Edulix: sorry people I didn't ask you why are you helping
 me, I just asked a question related to fedora, and if you want you can
 help, I think I'm not trolling or anything ?¿
 (12:08:20 AM) DiscordianUK: you aren't running fedora
 (12:08:43 AM) DiscordianUK: This is f14/f15 support
 (12:08:47 AM) bookwar1: DiscordianUK: his question was ok, don't fight
 (12:08:56 AM) EvilBob: well this is a Fedora enduser support channel
 (12:08:58 AM) DiscordianUK: nor do you intend to
 (12:09:07 AM) DiscordianUK: precisely
 (12:09:13 AM) Fieldy: he got his question answered anyway, i'm sure we can
 relax
 (12:09:20 AM) Edulix: ok sorry. what fedora channel should I use?
 (12:09:26 AM) Edulix: Fieldy: sure =)
 (12:09:33 AM) EvilBob: Edulix: #fedora-devel
 (12:09:39 AM) hicham: Edulix: http://rpm.pbone.net/ provides that feature
 (12:09:43 AM) Edulix: EvilBob: thanks
 (12:09:54 AM) EvilBob: Edulix: Let them help you with your mutant
 packaging
 (12:10:11 AM) Edulix: hehe yeah nice term
 (12:10:11 AM) EvilBob: It's really the best place for that kind of help
 (12:10:48 AM) EvilBob: Foreign just did not seem right
 (12:11:24 AM) EvilBob: Good Luck to you
 (12:11:45 AM) Edulix: thanks you people for the help
 (12:12:10 AM) Edulix: my next devel question will be asked there for sure
 =)
 (12:13:50 AM) bookwar1: it is kind of strange how you create such a big
 problem from 1-second-questions here, he didn't make any troubles and was
 polite enough, why not just answer and forget about it ?
 (12:14:36 AM) DiscordianUK: Do you not get that this is an end-user
 channel?
 (12:14:39 AM) Fieldy: and then, ironically, you extend the issue
 (12:14:43 AM) Fieldy: you = bookwar1
 (12:14:51 AM) Fieldy: we had moved on
 (12:15:03 AM) bookwar1: Fieldy: yes, sorry for that
 (12:15:49 AM) DiscordianUK: You don't run f14/f15 or want to you ain't
 coming in
 (12:16:51 AM) bookwar1: DiscordianUK: this is stupid, and i will try to
 participate in the next irc-support-meeting to discuss this
 }}}

 {{{
 (01:54:20 AM) Lantizia: hey how can I import this key directly into rpm in
 one line??
 http://keys.gnupg.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x4F2A6FD2
 (01:54:36 AM) Lantizia: I've tried   rpm --import
 "http://keys.gnupg.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x4F2A6FD2"     but
 I get "import read failed"
 (01:55:36 AM) dvanstone: Lantizia- * man rpm
 (01:55:58 AM) mutk: Lantizia, That URL ends up sending a html file
 (01:56:17 AM) Lantizia: mutk, exactly - i dunno how to request it without
 html
 (01:56:47 AM) mutk: LatThat would be up to the people that provide it I
 guess
 (01:57:19 AM) dvanstone: mutk- yes
 (01:57:21 AM) Lantizia: mutk, do you know of any other popular keyserver
 that I can use with rpm -import
 (01:58:02 AM) dvanstone: Lantizia- * have you tried mit
 (01:58:13 AM) mutk: Heh keys.gnupg.net port 80 redirects to
 http://mud.stack.nl
 (01:58:26 AM) mutk: There goes my afternoon productivity..
 (01:59:36 AM) Lantizia: dvanstone, yeah you get html there too
 (01:59:55 AM) dvanstone: Lantizia- * man rpm
 (02:00:14 AM) mutk: It might be easy enough to script something to grab
 just the key text
 (02:00:29 AM) Lantizia: no man on here (yet) - trying to set up yum to get
 back some basic utils
 (02:01:00 AM) dvanstone: hmm
 (02:01:28 AM) Lantizia: why is there something in man rpm that is useful?
 or your just giving your default answer? :D
 (02:02:39 AM) dvanstone: hmm
 (02:03:10 AM) hays|afk is now known as hays
 (02:03:55 AM) mutk: Lantizia,   https://fedoraproject.org/keys   that
 shows the op=GET arg in the url..
 http://keys.gnupg.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x34E166FA&op=get
 (02:04:14 AM) Lantizia: mutk, as does the link I already provided in
 channel
 (02:04:44 AM) mutk: Ah yes in different order .. Ok
 (02:04:57 AM) fenrus02: why would you use the keyserver instead of the iso
 you downloaded?
 (02:05:10 AM) Lantizia: fenrus02, you mean for FC3? :P hehe
 (02:05:17 AM) Lantizia: i wonder which FC3 rpm had the key in it
 (02:06:42 AM) fenrus02: @fc3eol
 (02:06:43 AM) fedbot: Fedora Core 3 is END OF LIFE and no longer
 supported. See https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora-EOL-Support. It went
 EOL 6 years, 3 weeks, 3 days, 11 hours, 6 minutes, and 43 seconds ago
 (02:07:14 AM) Lantizia: fenrus02, you realise your not the first to say
 this - and you also realise I've known that little nugget of information
 for years now
 (02:07:16 AM) Lantizia: give up :P
 (02:07:36 AM) ffranz-afk is now known as ffranz
 (02:08:13 AM) fenrus02: Lantizia, then you also realize you are HORRIBLY
 off topic here.  Great.  Try #fedora-eol if it still exists.
 (02:08:53 AM) Lantizia: fenrus02, how?  i'm just talking about the rpm
 utility and it importing gpg keys!
 (02:09:07 AM) fenrus02: Lantizia, on a dead distro that no longer applies
 here.
 (02:09:21 AM) Lantizia: unless fedora stopped using rpm?! oh wait you've
 not
 (02:09:26 AM) fenrus02: not all the rpm versions are the same
 (02:09:58 AM) fenrus02: Lantizia, do you really want to troll and/or be a
 twit? i suggest you stop now.
 (02:10:49 AM) Lantizia: fenrus02, your the troller here - attempting to
 stop helping someone just because they mentioned the hilarity of it being
 fc3... the issue is if/how rpm can import from a keyserver without need of
 the file being downloaded first
 (02:11:46 AM) fenrus02: @kick Lantizia
 (02:11:47 AM) Lantizia left the room (Kicked by fedbot (fenrus02)).
 (02:11:52 AM) Lantizia
 [~lantizia(a)cpc22-stok16-2-0-cust96.1-4.cable.virginmedia.com] entered the
 room.
 (02:11:54 AM) Lantizia: very mature
 (02:12:02 AM) fenrus02: that was your last warning.
 (02:12:04 AM) mutk: Lantizia, Use gpg tool to import the keys using
 keys.gnupg.net  and then export the key to a file and import with rpm..
 The keys.gnupg.net site seems intended for gpg tool and nothing else.
 (02:12:18 AM) Lantizia: mutk, thought of that too - but no gpg utility
 only gpg-error
 (02:12:28 AM) mutk: what ?
 (02:12:35 AM) Lantizia: see i'm trying to set up yum (need the gpg key for
 it) to get these basic utils back
 (02:13:00 AM) dvanstone: Lantizia- * uname -r
 (02:13:12 AM) Lantizia: dvanstone, why?
 (02:13:48 AM) dvanstone: we only provide support for 15 16 here
 (02:15:12 AM) dvanstone: hmm
 (02:15:33 AM) Lantizia: not wanting to suffer the "wrath" of fenrus02
 again... but has no one stopped to think that some people might want to
 run fc3 or keep running it for either whimsical reasons or because it's an
 old server they've virtualised for reference later on if they need it...
 it's not like I chose fc3! I'm a debian user!  and it's not like me asking
 for help in here is causing the ABSOLUTE FLOOD of fedora 15 and 16 users a
 probl
 (02:15:33 AM) Lantizia: em - of which none are talking at present or
 needing help
 (02:15:44 AM) Lantizia: this isn't #ubuntu after all
 (02:16:06 AM) dvanstone: Lantizia- * it has been suggested -eol
 (02:16:10 AM) mutk: Lantizia, Use wget to save the file, edit it to clean
 it up. Import with rpm --import
 (02:16:24 AM) Lantizia: mutk, yeah was hoping for something more elegant
 than that
 (02:16:33 AM) Lantizia: i guess I could use sed on it
 (02:16:43 AM) mutk: Like a scipt, as I suggested early. Would be easy to
 do.
 (02:16:44 AM) dvanstone: Lantizia- * plaese
 (02:16:46 AM) ryeth: lol i'm downloading fedora now because i will have it
 in an upcoming class, thought i'd join the room to see what people are
 talking about
 (02:16:49 AM) mutk: script*
 (02:16:56 AM) ryeth: don't need help yet, but sure i probably will be soon
 (02:17:10 AM) Lantizia: ryeth, then I'll shut up
 }}}

-- 
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ticket/100>
irc-support-sig <irc://irc.freenode.net/#fedora>
Feedback and tracking of issues for the folks who try and improve support in #fedora on
irc.freenode.net

[fedora-badges]

#100: eol fedora questions and questions from non-fedora users
-----------------------+-----------------------
  Reporter:  bookwar   |      Owner:
      Type:  feedback  |     Status:  new
  Priority:  minor     |  Milestone:  Fedora 16
   Version:            |   Severity:  Neutral
Resolution:            |   Keywords:
Blocked By:            |   Blocking:
-----------------------+-----------------------

Comment (by sonarguy):

 Wow, when did it become off-topic in #fedora to ask general Fedora
 questions?  I must have missed that. I thought we wanted to educate and
 teach people in the channel?

 There should be no reason either of these individual should have been
 treated with the disrespect that they received. I think people need to
 become much or tolerant or maybe take some time away from the channel to
 rethink why you are there!

-- 
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ticket/100#comment:1>
irc-support-sig <irc://irc.freenode.net/#fedora>
Feedback and tracking of issues for the folks who try and improve support in #fedora on
irc.freenode.net

[warren]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Just another reason why "ops" or positions of power should have a time
limit. Entitlement mentality swings both ways, wear your raincoat in
#fedora, the good ol' boys club.

On 02/10/2012 04:28 AM, irc-support-sig wrote:
>  #100: eol fedora questions and questions from non-fedora users
>  -----------------------+-----------------------
>  Reporter: bookwar | Owner:
>  Type: feedback | Status: new
>  Priority: minor | Milestone: Fedora 16
>  Version: | Severity: Neutral
>  Resolution: | Keywords:
>  Blocked By: | Blocking:
>  -----------------------+-----------------------
>
>  Comment (by sonarguy):
>
>  Wow, when did it become off-topic in #fedora to ask general Fedora
>  questions? I must have missed that. I thought we wanted to educate and
>  teach people in the channel?
>
>  There should be no reason either of these individual should have been
>  treated with the disrespect that they received. I think people need to
>  become much or tolerant or maybe take some time away from the channel to
>  rethink why you are there!
> >  
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v2.0.14 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iEYEARECAAYFAk81Qr8ACgkQI5ZhoGXYrD6wagCeOBA5PGE4oLa1WbHs75BZxSp6
> GQIAn2QmopkR+oprY6fhB51VXgFx79RH
> =/smr
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

[fedora-badges]

#100: eol fedora questions and questions from non-fedora users
-----------------------+-----------------------
  Reporter:  bookwar   |      Owner:
      Type:  feedback  |     Status:  new
  Priority:  minor     |  Milestone:  Fedora 16
   Version:            |   Severity:  Neutral
Resolution:            |   Keywords:
Blocked By:            |   Blocking:
-----------------------+-----------------------

Comment (by fenris02):

 FTR, I did not @kick Lantizia because he was using fc3 at all.  Sorry for
 the confusion.  He was booted for being a rude obnoxious twit.  Nothing to
 do with his EOL software.

-- 
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ticket/100#comment:2>
irc-support-sig <irc://irc.freenode.net/#fedora>
Feedback and tracking of issues for the folks who try and improve support in #fedora on
irc.freenode.net

[fedora-badges]

#100: eol fedora questions and questions from non-fedora users
-----------------------+-----------------------
  Reporter:  bookwar   |      Owner:
      Type:  feedback  |     Status:  closed
  Priority:  minor     |  Milestone:  Fedora 16
   Version:            |   Severity:  Neutral
Resolution:  fixed     |   Keywords:
Blocked By:            |   Blocking:
-----------------------+-----------------------
Changes (by aglaser):

 * status:  new => closed
 * resolution:   => fixed


-- 
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ticket/100#comment:3>
irc-support-sig <irc://irc.freenode.net/#fedora>
Feedback and tracking of issues for the folks who try and improve support in #fedora on
irc.freenode.net

[fedora-badges]

#100: eol fedora questions and questions from non-fedora users
-----------------------+-----------------------
  Reporter:  bookwar   |      Owner:
      Type:  feedback  |     Status:  closed
  Priority:  minor     |  Milestone:  Fedora 16
   Version:            |   Severity:  Neutral
Resolution:  fixed     |   Keywords:
Blocked By:            |   Blocking:
-----------------------+-----------------------

Comment (by kevin):

 Speaking only for myself, the things I can see that we could do better
 here:

 a) Try and be less terse. If someone isn't understanding you, try and come
 up with a more complete sentence that could help... ie 'We only support
 Fedora" vs "This is an end user tech support channel, we can't help you
 much with development, perhaps you could try #fedora-devel? Sorry."

 b) Try and always be polite, even if the user isn't being or doesn't seem
 to deserve it.
 Ie, calling someone a twit and troll isn't a good idea, even when they may
 be such. Just let the conversation go, and/or note that channel policy is
 not to support end of life releases.

-- 
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ticket/100#comment:4>
irc-support-sig <irc://irc.freenode.net/#fedora>
Feedback and tracking of issues for the folks who try and improve support in #fedora on
irc.freenode.net

[Russell Golden]

>   Speaking only for myself, the things I can see that we could do
> better
>   here:
>
>   a) Try and be less terse. If someone isn't understanding you, try and come
>   up with a more complete sentence that could help... ie 'We only support
>   Fedora" vs "This is an end user tech support channel, we can't help you
>   much with development, perhaps you could try #fedora-devel? Sorry."
>
>   b) Try and always be polite, even if the user isn't being or doesn't seem
>   to deserve it.
>   Ie, calling someone a twit and troll isn't a good idea, even when they may
>   be such. Just let the conversation go, and/or note that channel policy is
>   not to support end of life releases. 
Agreed. I've noticed it, too. Yes, I know a lot of people are jaded,
but terseness and name-calling just push people away, regardless of
reason. I won't name names, but some of the operators in the channel,
who by virtue of being operators are supposed to set an example, need
to work on this.

Russell Golden, aka NiveusLuna

[fedora-badges]

#100: eol fedora questions and questions from non-fedora users
-----------------------+-----------------------
  Reporter:  bookwar   |      Owner:
      Type:  feedback  |     Status:  closed
  Priority:  minor     |  Milestone:  Fedora 16
   Version:            |   Severity:  Neutral
Resolution:  fixed     |   Keywords:
Blocked By:            |   Blocking:
-----------------------+-----------------------

Comment (by bjensen):

 Top and inline Post, sue me.

>   This feedback is:
>    {{{
>    [ ] Positive
>    [ ] Negative
>    [X] Neutral
>    }}}
>  
 Neutral? It's a negative I shows failure.

>   '''My IRC nick is:''' bookwar
>
>   '''Please briefly describe the interaction that caused you to file this
>   ticket:'''
>  
 You are covering two things, two situations in one ticket. I'm really only
 interested in the part that involves me.

>    The situation when people are kicked or banned from the support
>  
 channel,
>   while they ask fedora-related questions in a reasonable and polite
> way
>   seems to be wrong for me.
>
>    Once I saw how the person was sent out because he wasn't a Fedora
>  
 user.
>   He asked if there exists one specific package in Fedora repos. And
> he
>  
 said
>   he could not use yum to find it. Instead of giving him link for koji
> or
>   Fedora package database or direct answer, DiscordianUK said "we support
>   only Fedora users here".
>  
 I pasted up the log relevant to the above description. I'll be inserting
 comments as I see fit. Again I'm only interested in the parts that involve
 me.

>   {{{
>   (11:54:25 PM) Edulix: can somebody please tell which fedora package
>   provides the binary xsltproc?
>   (11:55:25 PM) bookwar1: libxslt
>   (11:55:32 PM) Edulix: bookwar1: thanks
>   (12:00:35 AM) EvilBob: Edulix: the yum man page talks about "provides"
>  
 My goal is almost always to educate users, Directing a user to a man page
 to
 gain knowledge is the way they help themselves.

>   (12:01:12 AM) Edulix: EvilBob: cool
>   (12:01:15 AM) EvilBob: Edulix: So "yum provides */xsltproc" would get
>  
 you
>   the desired info
>  
 I made my initial direction more clear using an example.

>   (12:01:35 AM) EvilBob: Edulix: You can also use rpm to look this
> up
>   (12:01:46 AM) DiscordianUK: or repoquery
>   (12:02:19 AM) EvilBob: Edulix: You would QUERY the database for the
>  
 FILE
>   in question, see the man page for more info
>  
 Again a second attempt at educating the user.

>   (12:02:29 AM) Edulix: EvilBob: but I don't have fedora installed
> so
>   (12:02:35 AM) Edulix: I need something online :P
>   (12:02:37 AM) EvilBob: Sure
>   (12:03:10 AM) EvilBob: No time like NOW to get it installed
>  
 At this point the user makes his situation more clear, he does not have
 Fedora.
 No time like the present to get on board trying to welcome them in to the
 fold.

>   (12:03:15 AM) randomuser: Edulix, other package managers probably
> have
>   this feature too
>   (12:04:21 AM) Edulix: EvilBob: I'm creating a package for
>   fedora,opensuse,mandriva,debian,ubuntu,windows,linux,mac...
>   (12:05:21 AM) Edulix: EvilBob: and no I'm not installing all those,
>  
 I'll
>   let others do it, I'm using opensuse build service to create
> the
>  
 package
>   for all the linuxes and then ask people to test it
>  
 The user gets in to finally more relevent details about his mission... I
 wish
 he had brought that to the table from the start.

>   (12:05:40 AM) DiscordianUK: yikes
>   (12:06:37 AM) hicham: Edulix: there are online websites
>   (12:06:42 AM) hicham: that provides these tools
>   (12:06:46 AM) Edulix: hicham: please tell me =)
>   (12:06:52 AM) EvilBob: You can't be bothered to test your own bits...
>   (12:06:55 AM) EvilBob: WOW
>  
 Yeah, a little humer/sarcasm could have been done without the user did not
 seem
 to have translucent lily white skin so I felt it was ok to cut up a
 little,
 seemed like a nice enough guy.

>   (12:07:10 AM) DiscordianUK: I'm tiring of this
>   (12:07:58 AM) Edulix: sorry people I didn't ask you why are you helping
>   me, I just asked a question related to fedora, and if you want you can
>   help, I think I'm not trolling or anything ?¿
>   (12:08:20 AM) DiscordianUK: you aren't running fedora
>   (12:08:43 AM) DiscordianUK: This is f14/f15 support
>   (12:08:47 AM) bookwar1: DiscordianUK: his question was ok, don't fight
>   (12:08:56 AM) EvilBob: well this is a Fedora enduser support channel
>  
 I was looking for an online tool for the user to get his info from and was
 failing. I pointed out that it is an enduser channel to hopefully turn the
 heat
 down.

>   (12:08:58 AM) DiscordianUK: nor do you intend to
>   (12:09:07 AM) DiscordianUK: precisely
>   (12:09:13 AM) Fieldy: he got his question answered anyway, i'm sure we
>  
 can
>   relax
>   (12:09:20 AM) Edulix: ok sorry. what fedora channel should I use?
>   (12:09:26 AM) Edulix: Fieldy: sure =)
>   (12:09:33 AM) EvilBob: Edulix: #fedora-devel
>  
 After not finding the links I was looking for I decided I would pass him
 off to
 the -devel channel where those with more experience hang out and would
 hopefully help more than I could.

>   (12:09:39 AM) hicham: Edulix: http://rpm.pbone.net/ provides that
>  
 feature
>   (12:09:43 AM) Edulix: EvilBob: thanks
>   (12:09:54 AM) EvilBob: Edulix: Let them help you with your mutant
>   packaging
>   (12:10:11 AM) Edulix: hehe yeah nice term
>   (12:10:11 AM) EvilBob: It's really the best place for that kind of help
>   (12:10:48 AM) EvilBob: Foreign just did not seem right
>   (12:11:24 AM) EvilBob: Good Luck to you
>   (12:11:45 AM) Edulix: thanks you people for the help
>   (12:12:10 AM) Edulix: my next devel question will be asked there for
>  
 sure
>   =)
>  
 He got the help he wanted, in the end he was thankful, and was happy about
 it.

>   (12:13:50 AM) bookwar1: it is kind of strange how you create such a
> big
>   problem from 1-second-questions here, he didn't make any troubles and
>  
 was
>   polite enough, why not just answer and forget about it ?
>   (12:14:36 AM) DiscordianUK: Do you not get that this is an end-user
>   channel?
>   (12:14:39 AM) Fieldy: and then, ironically, you extend the issue
>   (12:14:43 AM) Fieldy: you = bookwar1
>   (12:14:51 AM) Fieldy: we had moved on
>   (12:15:03 AM) bookwar1: Fieldy: yes, sorry for that
>   (12:15:49 AM) DiscordianUK: You don't run f14/f15 or want to you ain't
>   coming in
>   (12:16:51 AM) bookwar1: DiscordianUK: this is stupid, and i will try to
>   participate in the next irc-support-meeting to discuss this
>   }}}
>  
 I'm going to snip off the added bits that cover fenrus here.

 This is my POV on it I thought I did well helping the user and tolerating
 his moving endgame.

-- 
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ticket/100#comment:5>
irc-support-sig <irc://irc.freenode.net/#fedora>
Feedback and tracking of issues for the folks who try and improve support in #fedora on
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[fedora-badges]

#100: eol fedora questions and questions from non-fedora users
-----------------------+-----------------------
  Reporter:  bookwar   |      Owner:
      Type:  feedback  |     Status:  closed
  Priority:  minor     |  Milestone:  Fedora 16
   Version:            |   Severity:  Neutral
Resolution:  fixed     |   Keywords:
Blocked By:            |   Blocking:
-----------------------+-----------------------

Comment (by bookwar):

 Thank you for replies.

>  Neutral? It's a negative I shows failure.
>  
 I marked it neutral because I was asking about channel rules in general,
 not the two particular cases. Now it is clear for me that there is no
 issues with channel guidelines only some misunderstanding in specific
 situations. It happens, and kevin has answered this part.

>  My goal is almost always to educate users, Directing a user to a man
>  
 page to gain knowledge is the way they help themselves.

 This is a good habit I myself need to get used to. I tend to be fast-
 forward most of the times. )

>  Yeah, a little humer/sarcasm could have been done without the user
> did
>  
 not seem to have translucent lily white skin so I felt it was ok to cut up
 a little, seemed like a nice enough guy.

 Agreed again.

 I think you did well in this discussion (may be we could do better with
 links to the online package bases, but ok, we hadn't them at that time). I
 wrote the ticket mostly based on this phrase:
 "You don't run f14/f15 or want to you ain't coming in" which was posed
as
 a Strict Channel Rule. Since it is not, the situation is resolved for me.

-- 
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ticket/100#comment:6>
irc-support-sig <irc://irc.freenode.net/#fedora>
Feedback and tracking of issues for the folks who try and improve support in #fedora on
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