Ubuntu moving towards Wayland
dennisml at conversis.de
Sat Nov 6 16:28:08 UTC 2010
On 11/06/2010 04:16 PM, Mark Bidewell wrote:
>>>> Out of interest, do you use individual shells/terms or something that
>>>> provides a more remote desktop like experience?
>>> I use ssh -Y. Anything that sits in a huge window showing an entire
>>> desktop-in-a-desktop is so obviously the wrong way to do it, from both
>>> a usability and efficiency perspective, that I'm just astonished that
>>> people suggest I use something like VNC.
>> We use both approaches, I suppose both have their merits, and we
>> shouldn't rule out either method of working.
>> devel mailing list
>> devel at lists.fedoraproject.org
> One of the many concerns I have with Wayland involves VNC. Right now
> VNC on X uses some of the multiuser functions to enable multiple VNC
> consoles. Will Wayland still allow for this or will we be back to
> Windows with only one VNC session per computer. Linux/Unix is
> designed around multiuser/multisession, I believe we would be amiss to
> remove those capabilities from the OS.
First I think you should probably head over to the Wayland mailing list and
get involved there. That's something I also recommend to Richard because if
you want certain features to be present now is a good time to make your
voices heard over there. That's the reason I brought the topic up in here
so people can have a discussion over what the requirements are to make this
work well with Fedora as a project and then push for inclusions of these
requirements in Wayland.
Second I am a bit surprised by the "unless feature X is implemented 1:1 we
shouldn't allow progess" sort of argument that is going on here.
The main reason I'm excited about Wayland is the fact that it creates
competition. I agree with Camilo that X doesn't seem to cope with the
requirements of modern desktops well and I believe the reason for that is
the fact that in the absence of a competitor it's very easy to settle for
"good enough". Yes X is good enough for basic desktop especially after the
great improvements that happened after the Xorg split but being good enough
doesn't really jive well with Fedoras claim of being a showcase for
technical innovation. I've lurked on the Xorg mailing list long enough to
see the various attempts of improving X being stomped by the fact that
compatibility with decade old protocols that no one really cares about on a
modern desktop must be maintained.
The fact that X can be run as a client on Wayland makes for a pretty
perfect situation in my eyes. Wayland can make design decision unhampered
by the past while people who rely on specific X features can keep using
these applications without change. If the advantages of Wayland weigh so
heavily then X will at some point be obsoleted. I these advantages don't
materialize then Wayland will disappear and we will return to X. But a
third possible outcome - and one that in my opinion is pretty likely to
occur - could be that a lot of the features of X (like remote applications)
will actually be implemented in Wayland precisely because they have enough
merit to survive and that looks like a great future to me: a modern
implementation of all the features we love and care about.
As for the "if all apps are ported to Wayland I will not be able to use
them remotely anymore" I think this is bogus. Nowadays virtually all
application aren't X application but gtk/qt applications and the toolkits
tend to support different backends. So you will be able to use your apps as
long as the toolkits support X and I think that's going to be a long time
unless Wayland is dramatically successfull.
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