F20 System Wide Change: No Default Syslog

["Jóhann B. Guðmundsson"]

On 07/15/2013 09:26 PM, Jonathan Masters wrote:
> On Jul 15, 2013, at 5:11, Miroslav Suchý <msuchy at redhat.com> wrote:
>
>> On 07/15/2013 10:44 AM, Jaroslav Reznik wrote:
>>> = Proposed System Wide Change: No Default Syslog =
>>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/NoDefaultSyslog
>>>
>>> Change owner(s): Lennart Poettering <lennart at poettering net>, Matthew
>>> Miller <mattdm at fedoraproject org>
>>>
>>> No longer install a traditional syslog service by default. (Specifically,
>>> remove rsyslog from the @core or @standard groups in comps.)
>>>
>>> The systemd journal will be the default logging solution. Rsyslog, Syslog-NG,
>>> and even traditional sysklogd will continue to cover use cases outside of the
>>> default.
>> My voice may be one of thousands, but I'm saying: I want to have traditional syslog service as default and have journal from systemd as option.
> I concur. I have systems that live in a heterogeneous environment and need traditional syslog. By making it optional, it will ultimately die, forcing journal as the only viable option in a Fedora environment. This is IMO not net beneficial for downstream use cases later on either.

Has syslog-ng entirely died since rsyslogd has been the default?

Anyway there really is no point in installing and running two loggers on 
embed/server/desktop wasting ram,diskspace and cpu cycles *for 
everybody* instead of administrators simply adding rsyslog or syslog-ng 
manually at install time or to their ks snippets.

Nobody is talking about removing  from the distribution entirely and 
quite frankly administrators that complain about journal have not 
actually tried it and experienced the flexibility the journactl gives 
them it truly is not as bad as some people are trying to make it out to be.

And honestly I dont understand why people are ack/nack-ing this since 
this is FESCO decision and actually with my QA hat on we could have been 
better prepared for this and worked to our advantage ( instead of be 
dealing with potential breakage afterwards) and would have done so when 
I submitted [1] but apparently such work flow are forbidden by FESCO/FPC 
in the project.

JBG

1. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/systemd-journal