F21 System Wide Change: Headless Java

Aleksandar Kurtakov akurtako at redhat.com
Thu Nov 21 12:31:58 UTC 2013

----- Original Message -----
> From: "Reindl Harald" <h.reindl at thelounge.net>
> To: devel at lists.fedoraproject.org
> Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2013 11:34:08 AM
> Subject: Re: F21 System Wide Change: Headless Java
> Am 20.11.2013 20:56, schrieb Aleksandar Kurtakov:
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Toshio Kuratomi" <a.badger at gmail.com>
> >> To: "Development discussions related to Fedora"
> >> <devel at lists.fedoraproject.org>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2013 9:23:29 PM
> >> Subject: Re: F21 System Wide Change: Headless Java
> >>
> >> On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 08:13:02PM +0100, Marcela Mašláňová wrote:
> >>>
> >>> We were speaking about giving more power to SIGs related to
> >>> discussion about Fedora.next. This can be a good start. Stano and
> >>> Aleksandar are working on Java maintenance a lot, Java SIG members
> >>> are speaking together, so I have a confidence in their actions.
> >>>
> >> This is a tangent but -- some people have been talking about giving more
> >> power to SIGs but at the last env and stacks meeting we sorta settled on
> >> more power to SIGs in an experimental, anything-goes repo.  We're not
> >> tlaking about that here.
> > 
> > I have no idea what was discussed at these meetings but the thing is if
> > such thing would happen it would only happen if we do it - history has
> > proved that changes don't happen magically by themself. If one is forced
> > to do something he doesn't think is the correct he would not do it and
> > if the Java SIG doesn't step in to drive this change we all lose
> why does everyting in Fedora feels that complicated and needs "big features"
> hence throw the "feature" in the basket, split java in 3 packages
> * java
> * java-headless
> * java-x11
> and you are done without waste anybodys time, *nobody* will lose and
> sooner or later packages which are running headless on servers may or
> may not be changed to depend only on "java-headless"
> for me sometimes it feels like people forcing big features and changes
> involving a lot of people to get more noticed and important instead
> think about how can things be optimized with no feelable impact and
> demanding anybody to take actions

I agree with you that the current Features/Changes system is useless as is now. It was supposed to be a way to collect information for Release notes nothing more AFAIK.
Discussions, decisions, changes and so on happen in whatever way the parties doing the work think is better for them. The idea that changes become a way for enforcing stuff on maintainers plain means that one would better not care for the process at all and do the changes needed and not care with the bureaucrasy.

Alexander Kurtakov
Red Hat Eclipse team

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