[Fedora-marketing-list] Re: Slashdot interview with Fedora Project leader Max Spevack

Nicola Losito n.losito at yahoo.it
Mon Aug 21 22:03:38 UTC 2006

Il giorno 21/ago/06, alle ore 17:24, Rahul ha scritto:

> Nicola Losito wrote:
>>> http://interviews.slashdot.org/interviews/06/08/17/177220.shtml
>> Does the interview actually ends up with Max saying "Which is why  
>> I think a lot of the OSS "religious wars" don't make a lot of  
>> sense." ??
>> If so i am a bit disappointed :-)
> You want religious wars? Dont be silly.

Uhm, let me clarify ... I was disappointed by the sudden end of the  
interiew, not for the missed useless whatever war :-)
Having clarified that ..... let me move on the rest.

Please keep in mind that english is not my first language, and  
probably i am driven to use some "weird" way of saying things (not to  
mention grammar mistakes). So keeping in mind that i like and endorse  
the work in Fedora i ask my reader to try to catch my points ....

>> That's because on the last question "Have you tried Ubuntu  
>> yourself? Is there, in your opinion, something Ubuntu does better  
>> than Fedora?" Max didn't actually answered.
>> He cites the main site/wiki efficency and the fist second  
>> impression of a missing NetworkManager but then he omits to talk  
>> about the obvious better "dektop experience" for Ubuntu users  
>> (fade effects, fast user switching, general graphical consinstency  
>> [1]).
> I cant see any obviously better desktop experience. I suppose Max  
> Spevack didnt see one that is worth pointing out as a major  
> difference either.

This is a very "tech" way to say things. Like man pages, if something  
is worth mention it's written in the man page.
Unfortunately I see/feel life being different than that.

When you install and run Ubuntu you got enabled a bunch of features  
that doesn't make feel the user on his own (Gnome sounds enabled,  
when i'm supposed to enter the sudo password the screen goes dark  
leaving only the appropriate window "illuminated" and some other  
fancier - yes, useless, but fancier things).

Generally i see that "heavy" or "experienced" Linux user doesn't  
bother too much with this kind of thematic (like me with video  
proprietary drivers, never installed them, never got to see if i  
could get a benefit from them). For sure in 10 minutes the 90% of FC  
contributor can take them on at will. But then again the average Joe  
feels these fancier tricks  enabled and running since the first boot  
like "attention to details" (again, seeing people's reaction around me).

> The implementation of fast user switching has problems with multi  
> user terminals so its hidden by default in the menu. You can of  
> course enable it yourself if the problems dont affect your usage.
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=175178

I already had an answer some time ago with this topic, but haven't go  
the time to read more and then try to make it work for myself. My  
point is that the other distro i enjoy "testing" have it and reading  
the answer "it's in bugzilla since $date" doesn't make nice impression.
It's clear that's a minor "bug", but i can see many people with  
always on internet connection leaving their session opened, locking  
their session when they're not at home and leaving a login screen  
available to parents for a second graphical use of the machine.  
Comfortable feature, if you think.

>> Ubuntu was born to be, and it's still developed to be,  "Linux for  
>> Human Beings".
> I dont adore that quote. What are we developing Fedora for if not  
> human beings or are people who use other distributions aliens? ;-)

Sometimes seems so .... have you ever tried using yum, with 3rd  
parties repos enabled, on a 56k pay-per-time line ? ?
Back when i was one of those FC seemed to me a distro for privileged  
aliens with fast/flat connections.

>> If we want to appeal more and more people, and to get them come to  
>> use we should think new strategies, the couple that comes to my  
>> mind are (i think) near the actual Board goals (as stated in the  
>> interview):
>> - the Core + Extras + Community package separation should be  
>> clearly resolved.
>> The Ubuntu or Mandriva approach is (to me) the winner: core (as  
>> universe or main) + extras (multiverse or contrib) + jpackage  
>> (java related) + PLF/non-free and STOP. No more livna/rpmforge  
>> dualism, nor a dozen self referring repo for a specific task (each  
>> one on his server)
> Core+Extras universe similar to other distributions already exist.  
> Jpackage is already a common repository. Livna exists as a third  
> party repository since Fedora does not support or include non-free  
> software within the distribution.

Here i could make a mistake but:
- http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/components
it's clear in the division of what's "ubuntu" or "canonical" and  
what's not and also ...

> What we are doing is moving is *away* from the model of multiple  
> repositories into a single unified repository. Not dozens. Not even  
> two. Just one single repository. Of course every distribution has  
> third party repositories and we cant nor do we need to do anything  
> about that.

3rd party repo are natural in our free software world, everyone has  
different needs and preferences.

What i find "insane" {meaning not healthy, not referring to the crazy  
meaning} is the actual separation in Extras (which thanks to God and  
all the good people out there is growing each and every day in  
package number) and then the "Two Towers" of Livna "vs" dag-dries- 
freshrpms world and the experiences coming from a partial use of them  
or worst an "enabled=1" of all of them.

Fedora Project should speak loud on this inconsistency (for the  
record i have 14 different repositories in my yum.repos.d, some  
enabled some not, and i do not think it's easy to get the reason of  
this to the "non introduced").

These are part of the "problems" i have to talk to friends online  
(and not), also in my LUG, when referring to why choose Fedora  
distribution for installation, so these are topic i'm interested to  
study in my little and fragmented spare time.

Nicola  .:kOoLiNuS:.  Losito


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