Introduction, Looking to help...

[Carvel Baus]

Hello,

Just wanted to introduce myself as I am interested in helping with the ARM effort. I currently have a [personal] Macbook Air M1 and will be issued a MBP M1 for work [in several weeks] as part of a pilot program. I believe I could use them to contribute to the Fedora ARM effort.

I have limited kernel experience, but have built the kernel, applied the Fedora config, installed a minimalist [hello world] module and my [Intel] hardware is still working :)

Early on in my career, I worked on telephony switching systems and IP telephony protocol stacks (mostly on Sun Sparc systems.) I love to code, pure and simple and that is where I am most inspired/productive. I have done C/C++, SmallTalk, Java, Scala, shell scripting, etc., and now pursuing Rust in my spare time.

Looking forward to helping...

PS: I should be on the ARM SIG meeting today.

Carvel Baus
Principal Software Engineer, Multi-Architecture
[e-mail] 
IRC: rcbaus

[Peter Robinson]

Welcome Carvel,

Is there anything in particular that interests you or excites you that
you'd like to see improvements where you feel you may be able to
contribute with some guideance?

Peter

On Tue, Jan 26, 2021 at 1:35 PM Carvel Baus  wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Just wanted to introduce myself as I am interested in helping with the ARM effort. I currently have a [personal] Macbook Air M1 and will be issued a MBP M1 for work [in several weeks] as part of a pilot program. I believe I could use them to contribute to the Fedora ARM effort.
>
> I have limited kernel experience, but have built the kernel, applied the Fedora config, installed a minimalist [hello world] module and my [Intel] hardware is still working :)
>
> Early on in my career, I worked on telephony switching systems and IP telephony protocol stacks (mostly on Sun Sparc systems.) I love to code, pure and simple and that is where I am most inspired/productive. I have done C/C++, SmallTalk, Java, Scala, shell scripting, etc., and now pursuing Rust in my spare time.
>
> Looking forward to helping...
>
> PS: I should be on the ARM SIG meeting today.
>
> Carvel Baus
> Principal Software Engineer, Multi-Architecture
> [e-mail]
> IRC: rcbaus
>
> arm mailing list -- [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]
> Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
> List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]

[Carvel Baus]

My current interests lie in 4 primary areas: Arm, Rust, Kernel, Apple M1. Where two or more of these intersect would be very interesting to me. In no particular order:

- Fedora on Apple Silicon
- Rust on Arm 
- Fedora Kernel (C)

and down the road: Rust for kernel modules

Ultimately, I’d like to code - that could be C/C++, Rust, Scala (JVM)…probably not Python.

I don’t know if there are any plans for Fedora on Apple Silicon but this seems like an obvious target if there are. I am open to helping however I can but writing code is a primary objective. I am certainly a team player so open to discussing the pressing needs and see where there is a good fit.

Carvel
> On Jan 26, 2021, at 6:30 PM, Peter Robinson  wrote:
>
> Welcome Carvel,
>
> Is there anything in particular that interests you or excites you that
> you'd like to see improvements where you feel you may be able to
> contribute with some guideance?
>
> Peter
>
> On Tue, Jan 26, 2021 at 1:35 PM Carvel Baus  wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > Just wanted to introduce myself as I am interested in helping with the ARM effort. I currently have a [personal] Macbook Air M1 and will be issued a MBP M1 for work [in several weeks] as part of a pilot program. I believe I could use them to contribute to the Fedora ARM effort.
> >
> > I have limited kernel experience, but have built the kernel, applied the Fedora config, installed a minimalist [hello world] module and my [Intel] hardware is still working :)
> >
> > Early on in my career, I worked on telephony switching systems and IP telephony protocol stacks (mostly on Sun Sparc systems.) I love to code, pure and simple and that is where I am most inspired/productive. I have done C/C++, SmallTalk, Java, Scala, shell scripting, etc., and now pursuing Rust in my spare time.
> >
> > Looking forward to helping...
> >
> > PS: I should be on the ARM SIG meeting today.
> >
> > Carvel Baus
> > Principal Software Engineer, Multi-Architecture
> > [e-mail]
> > IRC: rcbaus
> >
> > arm mailing list -- [e-mail]
> > To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]
> > Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
> > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> > List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]

Carvel Baus
Principal Software Engineer, Multi-Architecture
[e-mail]
W: [phone]
C: [phone]

[Peter Robinson]

On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 2:10 AM Carvel Baus  wrote:
> My current interests lie in 4 primary areas: Arm, Rust, Kernel, Apple M1. Where two or more of these intersect would be very interesting to me. In no particular order:
> Fedora on Apple Silicon

That's a long way out, the first of the enablement patches have just
been posted for review and that doesn't even have storage to boot to a
usable system, it basically just enough to start CPUs and output to a
console. From experience of watching other platform bootstraps this is
going to be a multi year approach to get to something we can actively
support in Fedora.
> Rust on Arm

The rust support on arm is pretty good, it's now an upstream Tier 1
platform, and overall it's on equal footing as far as I can tell in
Fedora. There's a pretty active rust SIG:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Rust
> Fedora Kernel (C)

That's a pretty broad topic.
> and down the road: Rust for kernel modules
>
> Ultimately, I’d like to code - that could be C/C++, Rust, Scala (JVM)…probably not Python.
>
> I don’t know if there are any plans for Fedora on Apple Silicon but this seems like an obvious target if there are. I am open to helping however I can but writing code is a primary objective. I am certainly a team player so open to discussing the pressing needs and see where there is a good fit.

The answer is two fold, the first is most certainly, the second it
when it's ready. While there's a means of using it from an enthusiast
PoV it's no where near close to anything we can actively support in
Fedora. As described above kernel upstreaming is only just starting to
begin, and GPU reverse engineering is starting to make baby steps [1],
based on experience from other SoCs, such as Raspberry Pi, and other
GPUs such as MALI this is going to be a mult year process to get
something in main Fedora that's supportable by the average user with a
reasonable experience, I'm sure well before then there will be
terrible hacked up versions of Fedora that blitt via a framebuffer for
un-accelerated graphics which will be great for people that are
developing on them or enjoy terrible user experiences just to say they
can do it, but that's unsupportable in main Fedora because it ends up
creating a lot of support work for those that support the Fedora Arm
initiative.

Now Fedora Arm in a VM on an Apple M1 Mac is definitely something that
I'd love to support, and while my time to actively hack on it of late
has been limited, it's certainly something that I think is achievable
in the short term as a step on the route to full bare metal
enablement.

Peter

[1] https://rosenzweig.io/blog/asahi-gpu-part-2.html
> Carvel
>
> On Jan 26, 2021, at 6:30 PM, Peter Robinson  wrote:
>
> Welcome Carvel,
>
> Is there anything in particular that interests you or excites you that
> you'd like to see improvements where you feel you may be able to
> contribute with some guideance?
>
> Peter
>
> On Tue, Jan 26, 2021 at 1:35 PM Carvel Baus  wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> Just wanted to introduce myself as I am interested in helping with the ARM effort. I currently have a [personal] Macbook Air M1 and will be issued a MBP M1 for work [in several weeks] as part of a pilot program. I believe I could use them to contribute to the Fedora ARM effort.
>
> I have limited kernel experience, but have built the kernel, applied the Fedora config, installed a minimalist [hello world] module and my [Intel] hardware is still working :)
>
> Early on in my career, I worked on telephony switching systems and IP telephony protocol stacks (mostly on Sun Sparc systems.) I love to code, pure and simple and that is where I am most inspired/productive. I have done C/C++, SmallTalk, Java, Scala, shell scripting, etc., and now pursuing Rust in my spare time.
>
> Looking forward to helping...
>
> PS: I should be on the ARM SIG meeting today.
>
> Carvel Baus
> Principal Software Engineer, Multi-Architecture
> [e-mail]
> IRC: rcbaus
>
> arm mailing list -- [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]
> Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
> List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]
>
> Carvel Baus
> Principal Software Engineer, Multi-Architecture
> [e-mail]
> W: [phone]
> C: [phone]

[Jon Masters]

On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 6:38 AM Peter Robinson  wrote:

Now Fedora Arm in a VM on an Apple M1 Mac is definitely something that
> I'd love to support, and while my time to actively hack on it of late
> has been limited, it's certainly something that I think is achievable
> in the short term as a step on the route to full bare metal
> enablement.

This one pretty much already just works. I plan to help out here.

Jon.

[Peter Robinson]

On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 2:34 PM Jon Masters  wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 6:38 AM Peter Robinson  wrote:
> > Now Fedora Arm in a VM on an Apple M1 Mac is definitely something that
> > I'd love to support, and while my time to actively hack on it of late
> > has been limited, it's certainly something that I think is achievable
> > in the short term as a step on the route to full bare metal
> > enablement.
>
> This one pretty much already just works. I plan to help out here.

Well yes, Fedora "just works" once you compile, or download something
off github, to launch VMs on MacOS, then extract kernel and bits and
then finally boot the VM once you put the right cmd line options
together.... sure it "just works". What I mean by "love to support" is
there the bits that the required bits around Fedora to be able to
easily launch Fedora with the app/firmware and related bits so when
people download Fedora it actually is click on something and it just
works, not download an image, cobble together all this secret sauce,
apply the right access and cli options knowledge at which point it
"just works" :-D

[Gerd Hoffmann]

On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 10:47:39PM +0000, Peter Robinson wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 2:34 PM Jon Masters  wrote:
> > On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 6:38 AM Peter Robinson  wrote:
> > > Now Fedora Arm in a VM on an Apple M1 Mac is definitely something that
> > > I'd love to support, and while my time to actively hack on it of late
> > > has been limited, it's certainly something that I think is achievable
> > > in the short term as a step on the route to full bare metal
> > > enablement.
> >
> > This one pretty much already just works. I plan to help out here.
>
> Well yes, Fedora "just works" once you compile, or download something
> off github, to launch VMs on MacOS, then extract kernel and bits and
> then finally boot the VM once you put the right cmd line options
> together.... sure it "just works".

Well, adding arm hypervisor framework support to qemu is in the works
too.  Once that landed upstream (which should be qemu 6.0 in april
unless something goes horribly wrong) you'll have a pretty standard
virtual machine with uefi etc where you can install fedora as usual
without any hacks.

If you are comfortable with building your own qemu you can grab the
patches from the mailing list and do that today.

take care,
  Gerd

[Carvel Baus]

> On Jan 27, 2021, at 6:36 AM, Peter Robinson  wrote:
>
> On Wed, Jan 27, 2021 at 2:10 AM Carvel Baus  wrote:
> > My current interests lie in 4 primary areas: Arm, Rust, Kernel, Apple M1. Where two or more of these intersect would be very interesting to me. In no particular order:
> > Fedora on Apple Silicon
>
> That's a long way out, the first of the enablement patches have just
> been posted for review and that doesn't even have storage to boot to a
> usable system, it basically just enough to start CPUs and output to a
> console. From experience of watching other platform bootstraps this is
> going to be a multi year approach to get to something we can actively
> support in Fedora.
> > Rust on Arm
>
> The rust support on arm is pretty good, it's now an upstream Tier 1
> platform, and overall it's on equal footing as far as I can tell in
> Fedora. There's a pretty active rust SIG:
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Rust
> > Fedora Kernel (C)
>
> That's a pretty broad topic.
> > and down the road: Rust for kernel modules
> >
> > Ultimately, I’d like to code - that could be C/C++, Rust, Scala (JVM)…probably not Python.
> >
> > I don’t know if there are any plans for Fedora on Apple Silicon but this seems like an obvious target if there are. I am open to helping however I can but writing code is a primary objective. I am certainly a team player so open to discussing the pressing needs and see where there is a good fit.
>
> The answer is two fold, the first is most certainly, the second it
> when it's ready. While there's a means of using it from an enthusiast
> PoV it's no where near close to anything we can actively support in
> Fedora. As described above kernel upstreaming is only just starting to
> begin, and GPU reverse engineering is starting to make baby steps [1],
> based on experience from other SoCs, such as Raspberry Pi, and other
> GPUs such as MALI this is going to be a mult year process to get
> something in main Fedora that's supportable by the average user with a
> reasonable experience, I'm sure well before then there will be
> terrible hacked up versions of Fedora that blitt via a framebuffer for
> un-accelerated graphics which will be great for people that are
> developing on them or enjoy terrible user experiences just to say they
> can do it, but that's unsupportable in main Fedora because it ends up
> creating a lot of support work for those that support the Fedora Arm
> initiative.
>
> Now Fedora Arm in a VM on an Apple M1 Mac is definitely something that
> I'd love to support, and while my time to actively hack on it of late
> has been limited, it's certainly something that I think is achievable
> in the short term as a step on the route to full bare metal
> enablement.

So I think this is a great place to start. I am aware of efforts by JCM over the holidays but the specifics escape me…and he replies while I am typing….

So, point me in a direction, Fedora in a VM on Apple sounds like the starting line. I will have the MBP in a few weeks, but I do have an Air M1 now. Its only 8G ram so it could limit me some with the VM stuff, although a good test platform to see what can work there.

Carvel
> Peter
>
> [1] https://rosenzweig.io/blog/asahi-gpu-part-2.html
> > Carvel
> >
> > On Jan 26, 2021, at 6:30 PM, Peter Robinson  wrote:
> >
> > Welcome Carvel,
> >
> > Is there anything in particular that interests you or excites you that
> > you'd like to see improvements where you feel you may be able to
> > contribute with some guideance?
> >
> > Peter
> >
> > On Tue, Jan 26, 2021 at 1:35 PM Carvel Baus  wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > Just wanted to introduce myself as I am interested in helping with the ARM effort. I currently have a [personal] Macbook Air M1 and will be issued a MBP M1 for work [in several weeks] as part of a pilot program. I believe I could use them to contribute to the Fedora ARM effort.
> >
> > I have limited kernel experience, but have built the kernel, applied the Fedora config, installed a minimalist [hello world] module and my [Intel] hardware is still working :)
> >
> > Early on in my career, I worked on telephony switching systems and IP telephony protocol stacks (mostly on Sun Sparc systems.) I love to code, pure and simple and that is where I am most inspired/productive. I have done C/C++, SmallTalk, Java, Scala, shell scripting, etc., and now pursuing Rust in my spare time.
> >
> > Looking forward to helping...
> >
> > PS: I should be on the ARM SIG meeting today.
> >
> > Carvel Baus
> > Principal Software Engineer, Multi-Architecture
> > [e-mail]
> > IRC: rcbaus
> >
> > arm mailing list -- [e-mail]
> > To unsubscribe send an email to [e-mail]
> > Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
> > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> > List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[e-mail]
> >
> > Carvel Baus
> > Principal Software Engineer, Multi-Architecture
> > [e-mail]
> > W: [phone]
> > C: [phone]

Carvel Baus
Principal Software Engineer, Multi-Architecture
[e-mail]
W: [phone]
C: [phone]