i18n-bugs November 2012

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[Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 856239] fuzzy font rendering (Liberation 2 regression)
by Red Hat Bugzilla 30 Nov '12

30 Nov '12

Product: Fedora https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=856239 --- Comment #104 from Akira TAGOH <tagoh(a)redhat.com> --- FWIW I see OpenSuSE enables autohinting on their liberation2 package. if you don't like the blurred rendering so much, try to disable it anyway. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.

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[Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 856239] fuzzy font rendering (Liberation 2 regression)
by Red Hat Bugzilla 30 Nov '12

30 Nov '12

Product: Fedora https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=856239 --- Comment #103 from Akira TAGOH <tagoh(a)redhat.com> --- (In reply to comment #100) > > http://pravins.fedorapeople.org/liberation/arial-sans2-sans1-arimo-testing2… - On Fedora see how output varies from Windows7, Only Sans1 produce sharpaly hinting. > > Why do you test without subpixel smoothing on Linux? Your windows > screenshots use subpixel, you have to enable it on Linux to comare. Also > when you enable t the hinting glitches would be more evident. just a quote from the freetype.spec: # Patented subpixel rendering disabled by default. This is the reason why we don't use it. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.

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[Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 856239] fuzzy font rendering (Liberation 2 regression)
by Red Hat Bugzilla 30 Nov '12

30 Nov '12

Product: Fedora https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=856239 --- Comment #102 from Ilya <neptunia(a)mail.ru> --- No, the only problem with Windows Arial rendering is that it has vertical lines slightly thicker than 1 pixel. Otherwise the hinting is sharp and exact. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.

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[Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 856239] fuzzy font rendering (Liberation 2 regression)
by Red Hat Bugzilla 30 Nov '12

30 Nov '12

Product: Fedora https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=856239 --- Comment #101 from Mike FABIAN <mfabian(a)redhat.com> --- (In reply to comment #98) > > I agree that Arial looks better though, I can see "rainbow" effects in all of them. > > Indeed, the all three look worse in Windows than Liberation-1 on Linux where > there is no "rainbow" effect at all. In the screenshots from Windows, the sharp byte code rendering which can be seen in my ftview screenshots in comment#97 seems to be never used. I personally like that sharp hinting better, but it really seems to be a subjective thing and the general trend seems move away from that sharp type of hinting where vertical and horizontal lines are exactly one pixel wide at small sizes. Newer fonts don't seem to have such byte code anymore. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.

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[Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 856239] fuzzy font rendering (Liberation 2 regression)
by Red Hat Bugzilla 30 Nov '12

30 Nov '12

Product: Fedora https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=856239 --- Comment #100 from Ilya <neptunia(a)mail.ru> --- > http://pravins.fedorapeople.org/liberation/arial-sans2-sans1-arimo-testing2… - On Fedora see how output varies from Windows7, Only Sans1 produce sharpaly hinting. Why do you test without subpixel smoothing on Linux? Your windows screenshots use subpixel, you have to enable it on Linux to comare. Also when you enable t the hinting glitches would be more evident. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.

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[Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 856239] fuzzy font rendering (Liberation 2 regression)
by Red Hat Bugzilla 30 Nov '12

30 Nov '12

Product: Fedora https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=856239 --- Comment #99 from Ilya <neptunia(a)mail.ru> --- > is all of results you reported here came from it and not tested on Fedora? Yes. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.

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[Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 856239] fuzzy font rendering (Liberation 2 regression)
by Red Hat Bugzilla 30 Nov '12

30 Nov '12

Product: Fedora https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=856239 --- Comment #98 from Ilya <neptunia(a)mail.ru> --- > I agree that Arial looks better though, I can see "rainbow" effects in all of them. Indeed, the all three look worse in Windows than Liberation-1 on Linux where there is no "rainbow" effect at all. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.

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[Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 856239] fuzzy font rendering (Liberation 2 regression)
by Red Hat Bugzilla 30 Nov '12

30 Nov '12

Product: Fedora https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=856239 --- Comment #97 from Mike FABIAN <mfabian(a)redhat.com> --- Created attachment 654856 --> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/attachment.cgi?id=654856&action=edit liberation-sans-1-2.png Comparison of Liberation Sans 1 and 2 with ftview. Left: Liberation Sans 1.07 Right: Liberation Sans 2.00 Byte code hinting used, *no* forced autohinting, grayscale anti-aliasing. One can see that Liberation Sans 1 is very sharply rendered up to 17 point. The vertical and horizontal lines are exactly one pixel wide and black, there is not gray around them. From 18 point on, the vertical lines jump to a width of 2 pixels. For Liberation Sans 2, there is always some gray around the stems which makes it much more fuzzy and at sizes <= 17 point it makes it also look much bolder. A sharp byte code rendering as for Liberation Sans 1 of course causes sudden jumps in boldness when increasing the font size because the vertical lines have a thickness of integer pixels, at some point it jumps from a width of 1 pixel to a width of 2 pixels. Without such bytecode, no such sudden jump in boldness appears when increasing the font size. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.

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[Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 856239] fuzzy font rendering (Liberation 2 regression)
by Red Hat Bugzilla 30 Nov '12

30 Nov '12

Product: Fedora https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=856239 --- Comment #96 from Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com> --- Thanks Tagoh and Ilya for observation on windows rendering. But if you notice two more things In Fedora 18 Liberation 2 looks more thick and fuzzy compare. While in Windows it looks almost close to Arial and Sans1 I did some more testing with http://pravins.fedorapeople.org/liberation/liberation-fonts-testing.rtf on Windows and Fedora 18 1a. http://pravins.fedorapeople.org/liberation/arial-sans2-sans1-arimo-testing2… - On Windows all Arial, Sans 1 & 2 and Arimo hinted sharply. Vs 1b. http://pravins.fedorapeople.org/liberation/arial-sans2-sans1-arimo-testing2… - On Fedora see how output varies from Windows7, Only Sans1 produce sharpaly hinting. 2a. http://pravins.fedorapeople.org/liberation/arial-sans2-sans1-arimo-testing-… - As we increase size, output is almost same. 2b. http://pravins.fedorapeople.org/liberation/arial-sans2-sans1-arimo-testing-… - Again here sharp hinting on Windows. So from these observation, i think font is not at the fault. whether Croscore or Liberation2, its underlying hinting mechanism which affect outputs. Liberation 1 looks good on Both platform. But same is not with Sans2 and Croscore. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.

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[Fedora-i18n-bugs] [Bug 856239] fuzzy font rendering (Liberation 2 regression)
by Red Hat Bugzilla 30 Nov '12

30 Nov '12

Product: Fedora https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=856239 --- Comment #95 from Akira TAGOH <tagoh(a)redhat.com> --- I agree that Arial looks better though, I can see "rainbow" effects in all of them. honestly I don't see it's worth complaining so much. i.e. it's really subjective. IMHO the interesting point on this screenshot is, they are similarly rendering on Windows. though Liberation1 looks a bit smaller, the half-round at 'c' on both Liberation is wider and the bottom space at '9' is wider on Liberation 2. at any rate it looks trivial to me. that said, I don't know if the own hinting is really used on Windows. for instance, I suppose using auto-hinting on freetype may gives you similar rendering among Arial and both Liberation fonts. Well, it's really interesting but it may be not sufficient to say current fonts is good. there are still a lot of undetermined things. FWIW I want to clarify one thing I'm wondering. Ilya, you are sometimes referring OpenSuSE here, is all of results you reported here came from it and not tested on Fedora? I'm a bit concerned the build options and configuration on applications and fontconfig may be different between OpenSuSE and Fedora. it may be hard to agree with the proposed fixes. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug.

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i18n-bugs November 2012