Request for mentor

[Aaron Faanes]

Hello all,

I've already contributed a bit, but as I was reading Mike McGrath's
"How to be a successful contributor" Wiki article[1], I realized that
I hadn't really introduced myself. I also realized that I'd like a
sponsor/mentor. This is my attempt to remedy both of those. ;)

First of all, some quick facts[2]: My name is Aaron Faanes. My FAS
account and IRC nick is dafrito. I live in the central timezone.

I've been using *nix in some form for the past few years. I ran
FreeBSD a few years ago, then Ubuntu for about a year. I saw a talk by
Greg Kroah-Hartman that praised Fedora and Red Hat for their
commitment to upstream, so I switched and have been using it almost
exclusively ever since.

I'm a jack-of-all-trades sort of person. I've got a few years of
coding experience (python, java, lua, bash, javascript) working on the
tooling/docs/support side of things. Consequently, I feel like I could
have posted this sponsor request to the test, docs, and websites
mailing lists all with similar levels of enthusiasm.

However, I decided to request a wiki mentor since the wiki seems to be
where I've found my groove. I've done some writing[3], some template
work[4], and I'd be interested to continue that work. I've also made
some suggestions (some good, some not-so-good ;) ), and I'd like to
work with a sponsor to guide me towards the ideas that have consensus
and interest. I've also had an interest in being an admin for the
Wiki, so a sponsor could help see if I'm up for that task as well.

I'd like to start small. I feel like there's a tendency, at least for
myself, to dive into too much and get overwhelmed, so I feel like a
sponsor would help ensure that things don't get too crazy. As far as
timing is concerned, I can commit two to three afternoons (10-15
hours) a week.

Thank you for your consideration,
Aaron Faanes

[1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_be_a_successful_contributor
[2] For some more information: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Dafrito
[3] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Dafrito
[4] Templates that I've worked on:
 * https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Template:Infobox_package
 * https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Template:Infobox_group
 * https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Template:Delete

[Eric Christensen]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 07/08/2010 08:13 PM, Aaron Faanes wrote:
>  Hello all,
>  
>  I've already contributed a bit, but as I was reading Mike McGrath's
>  "How to be a successful contributor" Wiki article[1], I realized that
>  I hadn't really introduced myself. I also realized that I'd like a
>  sponsor/mentor. This is my attempt to remedy both of those. ;) 
Mike did a really awesome job on that article.
>  
>  First of all, some quick facts[2]: My name is Aaron Faanes. My FAS
>  account and IRC nick is dafrito. I live in the central timezone. 
Welcome Aaron, glad to have you aboard!

>  However, I decided to request a wiki mentor since the wiki seems to
> be
>  where I've found my groove. I've done some writing[3], some template
>  work[4], and I'd be interested to continue that work. I've also made
>  some suggestions (some good, some not-so-good ;) ), and I'd like to
>  work with a sponsor to guide me towards the ideas that have consensus
>  and interest. I've also had an interest in being an admin for the
>  Wiki, so a sponsor could help see if I'm up for that task as well. 
There are various resources for working with the wiki but the biggest
rule is to BE BOLD!  There isn't anything that can't be undone on the
wiki and as long you aren't spamming the wiki you are probably doing
okay.  The wiki is designed to be collaborative and edits by other
people are important.

>  I'd like to start small. I feel like there's a tendency, at
> least for
>  myself, to dive into too much and get overwhelmed, so I feel like a
>  sponsor would help ensure that things don't get too crazy. As far as
>  timing is concerned, I can commit two to three afternoons (10-15
>  hours) a week. 
We actually have pages that "need love"[0] which would probably be a
good place to start.  If you have any questions for a particular page
you can use the "Talk" page to discuss changes or to find out what needs
to be changed.

>  
>  Thank you for your consideration,
>  Aaron Faanes 
Again, welcome aboard!  Many of us hang out on IRC[1] in #fedora-docs.
Feel free to hang out or ask questions there.

- --Eric

[0] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Pages_that_need_love
[1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/IRC

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v2.0.14 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
>
> iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJMN12oAAoJEDbiLlqcYamxaNgP/jPi9NUazhxyPGZed/jIAT1Q
> FZvPCO7FLYgQdGfpdexKtgWuxntDopR2HWvcs8OUPcz7lMPjyesNB2LrWfR0CLJV
> GmULcJ+5w+3xBLOscGnyUCglG/3S0CSTwH5ujeuvBNDnybl5N4vlWlqu12lcSV5j
> Baa0Os8igJzMhMSZhgDhHqaL6VEyBuYANiOv9Fq2Fu5xuZFNYQAYJaeBrlmzRsGv
> daXi3QCMo6z63RsadqTxeJwYYZNOTNlfCxKjVhXKvl1cGk/51hioU6O9gd5pv/HN
> A1dI7ed80BMBPBzB0+FA/R9aQmWAodNGDMHMXj/jC5jW4u9jz/g0jbuJwJi4Lmcm
> mYtTRZhiRb2ueNcSwCYmcIvVUHne5e8jt9mE12HXabVcxU1ecmYZ5wFXuoG7BpVt
> 29XYLAoGUiKiCDZNa9+G41c0zXtHu54WI2BhYEvw/9+fyofEfFrvppzaFEURmoEG
> DVgvtBsbKWbJrar38XLvb/Fobo3t0c9FqkphRKNEr+SgMiaao0O3zL1nqzVYfLla
> Bt++KRq0z8DH0zACZlFbEniZrxkpJLElvqt7tCVMW/LAPzfwMT+5W+KAvad9eBfF
> QMEkxhDSkduktOrUAUgnRLTyxexnCK756Yyr2RUt6o6uBhejssCKENbusRLXoZdA
> I7bsjAP28yYw7AXjia/P
> =jWTT
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

[Ian Weller]

On Fri, Jul 09, 2010 at 01:34:33PM -0400, Eric Sparks Christensen wrote:
>  We actually have pages that "need love"[0] which would
> probably be a
>  good place to start.  If you have any questions for a particular page
>  you can use the "Talk" page to discuss changes or to find out what needs
>  to be changed. 
This is a great place to look for work, but is by no means extensive and
also doesn't say what needs fixed, so pages tend to just fester there. I
wonder if there's a better way to handle this.

-- 
Ian Weller <ian(a)ianweller.org&gt;
()  ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   - against proprietary attachments

[Aaron Faanes]

On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 12:51 PM, Ian Weller <ian(a)ianweller.org&gt; wrote:
>  On Fri, Jul 09, 2010 at 01:34:33PM -0400, Eric Sparks Christensen
> wrote:
> > We actually have pages that "need love"[0] which would probably be a
> > good place to start.  If you have any questions for a particular page
> > you can use the "Talk" page to discuss changes or to find out what needs
> > to be changed.
>
>  This is a great place to look for work, but is by no means extensive and
>  also doesn't say what needs fixed, so pages tend to just fester there. I
>  wonder if there's a better way to handle this. 
I'll work on some of these for now. If the admonition had more
information, it might be easier to figure out what the author wanted.

I've made and documented some builtin reasons for the delete template,
found here:

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Template:Delete

Perhaps some similar builtins could be made for {{needs love}}?

>  --
>  Ian Weller <ian(a)ianweller.org&gt;
>  ()  ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
>  /\  www.asciiribbon.org   - against proprietary attachments
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  wiki mailing list
>  wiki(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki
>  
-- Aaron Faanes

[Ian Weller]

On Thu, Jul 08, 2010 at 07:13:51PM -0500, Aaron Faanes wrote:
>  I've already contributed a bit, but as I was reading Mike
> McGrath's
>  "How to be a successful contributor" Wiki article[1], I realized that
>  I hadn't really introduced myself. I also realized that I'd like a
>  sponsor/mentor. This is my attempt to remedy both of those. ;)
>  
>  First of all, some quick facts[2]: My name is Aaron Faanes. My FAS
>  account and IRC nick is dafrito. I live in the central timezone.
>  
>  I've been using *nix in some form for the past few years. I ran
>  FreeBSD a few years ago, then Ubuntu for about a year. I saw a talk by
>  Greg Kroah-Hartman that praised Fedora and Red Hat for their
>  commitment to upstream, so I switched and have been using it almost
>  exclusively ever since.
>  
>  I'm a jack-of-all-trades sort of person. I've got a few years of
>  coding experience (python, java, lua, bash, javascript) working on the
>  tooling/docs/support side of things. Consequently, I feel like I could
>  have posted this sponsor request to the test, docs, and websites
>  mailing lists all with similar levels of enthusiasm.
>  
>  However, I decided to request a wiki mentor since the wiki seems to be
>  where I've found my groove. I've done some writing[3], some template
>  work[4], and I'd be interested to continue that work. I've also made
>  some suggestions (some good, some not-so-good ;) ), and I'd like to
>  work with a sponsor to guide me towards the ideas that have consensus
>  and interest. I've also had an interest in being an admin for the
>  Wiki, so a sponsor could help see if I'm up for that task as well.
>  
>  I'd like to start small. I feel like there's a tendency, at least for
>  myself, to dive into too much and get overwhelmed, so I feel like a
>  sponsor would help ensure that things don't get too crazy. As far as
>  timing is concerned, I can commit two to three afternoons (10-15
>  hours) a week. 
So the interesting difference that the wiki has compared to most groups
in Fedora is that just by signing the CLA, you have write access, and
the only other levels of access are "administrator" and "czar" (and
the
latter is just the former with a funny name and hat). Therefore, we
really don't have a mentoring process -- hardly anything has to be
handled by admins except for deleting pages[1].

I don't know if we should have a mentoring/sponsorship process for
becoming an administrator and being able to do more grunt work. That's
about the only thing I can think of that would be necessary, because you
would be a great candidate for that, along with many others.

Another thing we need that the mentoring process provides other groups
is an easy way to find work. We don't really have that. We should have
that. I don't know how to implement it well, because all I have in my
head is vague ideas of what the wiki should look like.

Thoughts, all?

[1] Not that I've done a good job of that. :)

-- 
Ian Weller <ian(a)ianweller.org&gt;
()  ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   - against proprietary attachments

[Aaron Faanes]

Thank you both for responding to my request! :)

On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 12:47 PM, Ian Weller <ian(a)ianweller.org&gt; wrote:
>  On Thu, Jul 08, 2010 at 07:13:51PM -0500, Aaron Faanes wrote:
> > I've already contributed a bit, but as I was reading Mike McGrath's
> > "How to be a successful contributor" Wiki article[1], I realized that
> > I hadn't really introduced myself. I also realized that I'd like a
> > sponsor/mentor. This is my attempt to remedy both of those. ;)
> >
> > First of all, some quick facts[2]: My name is Aaron Faanes. My FAS
> > account and IRC nick is dafrito. I live in the central timezone.
> >
> > I've been using *nix in some form for the past few years. I ran
> > FreeBSD a few years ago, then Ubuntu for about a year. I saw a talk by
> > Greg Kroah-Hartman that praised Fedora and Red Hat for their
> > commitment to upstream, so I switched and have been using it almost
> > exclusively ever since.
> >
> > I'm a jack-of-all-trades sort of person. I've got a few years of
> > coding experience (python, java, lua, bash, javascript) working on the
> > tooling/docs/support side of things. Consequently, I feel like I could
> > have posted this sponsor request to the test, docs, and websites
> > mailing lists all with similar levels of enthusiasm.
> >
> > However, I decided to request a wiki mentor since the wiki seems to be
> > where I've found my groove. I've done some writing[3], some template
> > work[4], and I'd be interested to continue that work. I've also made
> > some suggestions (some good, some not-so-good ;) ), and I'd like to
> > work with a sponsor to guide me towards the ideas that have consensus
> > and interest. I've also had an interest in being an admin for the
> > Wiki, so a sponsor could help see if I'm up for that task as well.
> >
> > I'd like to start small. I feel like there's a tendency, at least for
> > myself, to dive into too much and get overwhelmed, so I feel like a
> > sponsor would help ensure that things don't get too crazy. As far as
> > timing is concerned, I can commit two to three afternoons (10-15
> > hours) a week.
>
>  So the interesting difference that the wiki has compared to most groups
>  in Fedora is that just by signing the CLA, you have write access, and
>  the only other levels of access are "administrator" and "czar" (and
> the
>  latter is just the former with a funny name and hat). Therefore, we
>  really don't have a mentoring process -- hardly anything has to be
>  handled by admins except for deleting pages[1].
>
>  I don't know if we should have a mentoring/sponsorship process for
>  becoming an administrator and being able to do more grunt work. That's
>  about the only thing I can think of that would be necessary, because you
>  would be a great candidate for that, along with many others.
>
>  Another thing we need that the mentoring process provides other groups
>  is an easy way to find work. We don't really have that. We should have
>  that. I don't know how to implement it well, because all I have in my
>  head is vague ideas of what the wiki should look like. 
Finding work is what I'm looking for. Well, sort-of. I mean, on this
and other wikis, there's always places where I can find work. Outdated
pages, stubs, unwikified things, there's plenty of these and they're
easy to find.

I think what I'm looking for is, honestly, permission to do work. I
know Eric mentioned to "be bold" and that edits can be reverted, so
let me explain: I feel, however wrongly it may be, that the Fedora
Wiki has a much stronger sense of "ownership" than other wikis.
There's also a much larger variance between types of content, so as an
editor, I don't know what's intentional (like style or tone or layout)
and what's simply not touched up. I feel like a mentor would help make
these no-go- or draft-first-zones more obvious, and perhaps make the
avenues for making changes more clear. Maybe I just need to speak up
more in #fedora-docs ;)

>  Thoughts, all?
>
>  [1] Not that I've done a good job of that. :)
>
>  --
>  Ian Weller <ian(a)ianweller.org&gt;
>  ()  ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
>  /\  www.asciiribbon.org   - against proprietary attachments
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  wiki mailing list
>  wiki(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki
>  
-- Aaron Faanes

[Ian Weller]

On Fri, Jul 09, 2010 at 05:24:02PM -0500, Aaron Faanes wrote:
>  I think what I'm looking for is, honestly, permission to do work.
> I
>  know Eric mentioned to "be bold" and that edits can be reverted, so
>  let me explain: I feel, however wrongly it may be, that the Fedora
>  Wiki has a much stronger sense of "ownership" than other wikis.
>  There's also a much larger variance between types of content, so as an
>  editor, I don't know what's intentional (like style or tone or layout)
>  and what's simply not touched up. I feel like a mentor would help make
>  these no-go- or draft-first-zones more obvious, and perhaps make the
>  avenues for making changes more clear. Maybe I just need to speak up
>  more in #fedora-docs ;) 
This happens a lot. It happens a lot to me, too.

One thing that might be helpful is to create a subpage of your user page
and list pages that you would like to work on, and reasons why you
haven't yet (would like to ask the page editor what the heck is going
on, etc.). Then, immediately, send mail to the editor. :)

Long ago we discussed page maintainership and providing a template for
people to easily say "I 'own' this page, please ask me about huge
changes." I (and a few others) was against it (I think? ;) ) because
there shouldn't be a clear line of ownership for wiki pages, except user
pages, because it's *everybody's* wiki.

So. If you're worried that you might upset somebody, ask the editor, and
make a note of it somewhere. If you're not, fix it anyway. Consider this
a blanket permission for everybody.

-- 
Ian Weller <ian(a)ianweller.org&gt;
()  ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   - against proprietary attachments

[Aaron Faanes]

On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 5:45 PM, Ian Weller <ian(a)ianweller.org&gt; wrote:
>  On Fri, Jul 09, 2010 at 05:24:02PM -0500, Aaron Faanes wrote:
> > I think what I'm looking for is, honestly, permission to do work. I
> > know Eric mentioned to "be bold" and that edits can be reverted, so
> > let me explain: I feel, however wrongly it may be, that the Fedora
> > Wiki has a much stronger sense of "ownership" than other wikis.
> > There's also a much larger variance between types of content, so as an
> > editor, I don't know what's intentional (like style or tone or layout)
> > and what's simply not touched up. I feel like a mentor would help make
> > these no-go- or draft-first-zones more obvious, and perhaps make the
> > avenues for making changes more clear. Maybe I just need to speak up
> > more in #fedora-docs ;)
>
>  This happens a lot. It happens a lot to me, too.
>
>  One thing that might be helpful is to create a subpage of your user page
>  and list pages that you would like to work on, and reasons why you
>  haven't yet (would like to ask the page editor what the heck is going
>  on, etc.). Then, immediately, send mail to the editor. :)
>
>  Long ago we discussed page maintainership and providing a template for
>  people to easily say "I 'own' this page, please ask me about huge
>  changes." I (and a few others) was against it (I think? ;) ) because
>  there shouldn't be a clear line of ownership for wiki pages, except user
>  pages, because it's *everybody's* wiki. 
Yeah, I agree. Explicit ownership seems counter-productive.

>  So. If you're worried that you might upset somebody, ask the
> editor, and
>  make a note of it somewhere. If you're not, fix it anyway. Consider this
>  a blanket permission for everybody. 
This sounds reasonable, though I have a few questions:

* Who do I contact for pages that don't have a clear editor?
* When should I use an article's talk page?

>  --
>  Ian Weller <ian(a)ianweller.org&gt;
>  ()  ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
>  /\  www.asciiribbon.org   - against proprietary attachments
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  wiki mailing list
>  wiki(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki
>  
-- Aaron Faanes

[Ian Weller]

On Fri, Jul 09, 2010 at 06:20:28PM -0500, Aaron Faanes wrote:
>  On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 5:45 PM, Ian Weller <ian(a)ianweller.org&gt;
> wrote:
>  > So. If you're worried that you might upset somebody, ask the editor, and
>  > make a note of it somewhere. If you're not, fix it anyway. Consider this
>  > a blanket permission for everybody.
>  
>  This sounds reasonable, though I have a few questions:
>  
>  * Who do I contact for pages that don't have a clear editor? 
If you're unsure, mail an appropriate list. If you're not even sure what
list to mail, mail wiki@ and someone will (hopefully!) point you in the
right direction.

>  * When should I use an article's talk page? 
Nobody appears to use these pages unless they're instructed to, sadly.
They tend to get ignored. Personal communication is best -- for added
transparency, CC a list.

-- 
Ian Weller <ian(a)ianweller.org&gt;
()  ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   - against proprietary attachments

[Karsten Wade]

On Fri, Jul 09, 2010 at 05:24:02PM -0500, Aaron Faanes wrote:
>  
>  I think what I'm looking for is, honestly, permission to do work. I
>  know Eric mentioned to "be bold" and that edits can be reverted, so
>  let me explain: I feel, however wrongly it may be, that the Fedora
>  Wiki has a much stronger sense of "ownership" than other wikis.
>  There's also a much larger variance between types of content, so as an
>  editor, I don't know what's intentional (like style or tone or layout)
>  and what's simply not touched up. I feel like a mentor would help make
>  these no-go- or draft-first-zones more obvious, and perhaps make the
>  avenues for making changes more clear. Maybe I just need to speak up
>  more in #fedora-docs ;) 
I'm glad you keep coming back to this.  You are getting great
mentoring in this thread, but haven't yet received a response, "I'll
be your mentor."

So, I'll be your mentor.  (I'd force Ian to do it, but I think he
fears the commitment. ;-P )

You are doing a great job already with asking questions in appropriate
spaces.  But what you reveal above, the need for permission, is very
common.  I don't think "be bold" is the same for everyone - for some,
it's a bottomless hole or a little frightening or uninspiring.  (I
cover this a bit more in a blog post here[1].)

In Fedora, we are very good at informal mentoring and not so good at
formal mentoring.  For some people, informal works best; that means we
tend to attract and grow people who are most comfortable in the
"informal mentoring".

The fact is, nearly every contributor could use a mentor when coming
in, even if they never use the resource.  Just knowing you have
someone to ask is a powerful enabler.

Contact me whenever for specific questions, I tend to keep long hours
and am often available.

- Karsten

[1] http://iquaid.org/2010/03/25/diversity-check/
-- 
name:  Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Sr. Community Gardener
team:                Red Hat Community Architecture 
uri:               http://TheOpenSourceWay.org/wiki
gpg:                                       AD0E0C41