Webapps for developers

Liam liam.bulkley at gmail.com
Wed Jan 28 01:18:56 UTC 2015

<mcatanzaro at gnome.org> wrote:
> And I should be open-minded; I am just skeptical is all.
It's understandable. You're comfortable with WebKit, and there's been a
considerable amount of time invested in it but I'll just mention the sunken
costs fallacy.

> There's actually a fairly big team working on WebKit and WebKitGTK+ in
particular. (This is a huge maintenance effort.)
Well you can't control what apple works on, but if CEF resulted in less
developer burden for gnome folks I can't imagine that wouldn't be welcomed.
For that to happen, however, gtk folks would need to take a serious look at

>Who is going to do the work of porting GNOME away to something else? (That
would be a large amount of work.) Will you be able to have nice things like
GTK+ widgets (nope) and gstreamer multimedia (probably hard?)? Can Servo
render pages anywhere near as accurately as WebKit? (Probably not for a
long time?)
Honestly, GNOME wasn't my primary concern. I've largely given up on trying
to make sense of it (nothing personal, Michael; this has just been my
experience over the last five or so years), and, likewise, encouraging
GNOME folks to examine other directions.

To answer some of your questions:
1. I'd be surprised if you couldn't have "widgets" (I believe the "widgets"
you're referring to here are UI components rather than osx-type standalone
widgets, the latter of which we could absolutely do... and should... but
that's more of a fedora issue, I think) but I know gtk might have some
issues integrating with CEF. CEF is meant to be integrated into native
environments, after all.
2. You can use the pepper plugin system to run gstreamer pipelines (a very
quick Google search confirmed this), there might be other ways as well but
I didn't investigate further.
3. Servo currently can't render everything perfectly but that's why cef is
so nice: you still have chromium/blink to fall back on. That alone is a
SOLID upgrade over WebKit.

> WebKitGTK+ actually has a strict policy of not bumping dependencies until
the next API version, to allow distros to update to the latest stable
version whenever desired.
Sure, but the browser world moves too fast for that... and that brings me
back to the original point of all this: making use of the Mozilla
marketplace. I've relayed my experience, and while it's good that
webkitgtk+ can now make use of indexedDB apps, it's always going to be
chasing Mozilla/chromium as they have massive teams dedicated to pushing
forward the state of the art, along with excellent qa.

I'll say it once again: Mozilla is exactly the kind of org Fedora (and
GNOME) should be working with. The fact that they also produce a
best-in-class product makes such a collaboration all the more beneficial.

> But well, if someone does the work, I won't complain. Happy Tuesday!
And to you, Michael!
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