number of files in /etc/cobbler

[Vreman, Peter]

When I looked at the pxe templates I noticed the amount of files in /etc/cobbler.

Maybe we move some groups of the files to /var/lib/cobbler/xx/

Some ideas:
*.ks      /var/lib/cobbler/kickstarts (this directory already exists)
Pxe*     /var/lib/cobbler/pxe
Power*  /var/lib/cobbler/power

On my node this will already move 24 of 36 files out of /etc/cobbler

Regards,
Peter

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[Michael DeHaan]

Vreman, Peter - Acision wrote:
> When I looked at the pxe templates I noticed the amount of files in 
> /etc/cobbler.
>
> Maybe we move some groups of the files to /var/lib/cobbler/xx/
>
> Some ideas:
>
> *.ks      /var/lib/cobbler/kickstarts (this directory already exists)
>
> Pxe*     /var/lib/cobbler/pxe

Generally I agree with that filesystem layout being more ideal, though I 
need to provide some background info.

A lot of the things in Cobbler are the way there are for backwards 
compatibility reasons, and not to break someone's install server when 
someone does a "yum upgrade cobbler" and isn't aware of extra changes 
they have to make.

These are already hand-edited by a very large number of users.    I am 
not entirely sure of the practically or "rightness" of moving these in 
%post when they may be subject to configuration management.

The most "user intervention required" update was cobbler 1.0, which 
looked for a few common errors at startup and told users they needed to 
move configuration files before cobbler would function again.   I'd 
rather not do this if possible.
> Power*  /var/lib/cobbler/power

This can be done now as no non-development versions have edited these 
yet, however it's non-consistent with the above.
> On my node this will already move 24 of 36 files out of /etc/cobbler

Ultimately, we need to ask is a cluttered /etc/cobbler that much a 
problem that it would warrant the extra confusion of moving these around?

We do save user-state in /etc/cobbler fairly consistently and I do 
consider these to be configuration files not state.

New kickstarts created by the WebUI do go into /var/lib/cobbler/kickstarts.
> Regards,
>
> Peter
>
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[Vreman, Peter]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail] [mailto:cobbler-
> [e-mail]] On Behalf Of Michael DeHaan
> Sent: woensdag 19 november 2008 21:30
> To: cobbler mailing list
> Subject: Re: number of files in /etc/cobbler
>
> Vreman, Peter - Acision wrote:
> > When I looked at the pxe templates I noticed the amount of files in
> > /etc/cobbler.
> >
> > Maybe we move some groups of the files to /var/lib/cobbler/xx/
> >
> > Some ideas:
> >
> > *.ks      /var/lib/cobbler/kickstarts (this directory already exists)
> >
> > Pxe*     /var/lib/cobbler/pxe
>
> Generally I agree with that filesystem layout being more ideal, though I
> need to provide some background info.
>
> A lot of the things in Cobbler are the way there are for backwards
> compatibility reasons, and not to break someone's install server when
> someone does a "yum upgrade cobbler" and isn't aware of extra changes
> they have to make.
>
> These are already hand-edited by a very large number of users.    I am
> not entirely sure of the practically or "rightness" of moving these in
> %post when they may be subject to configuration management.
>
> The most "user intervention required" update was cobbler 1.0, which
> looked for a few common errors at startup and told users they needed to
> move configuration files before cobbler would function again.   I'd
> rather not do this if possible.
> > Power*  /var/lib/cobbler/power
>
> This can be done now as no non-development versions have edited these
> yet, however it's non-consistent with the above.
> > On my node this will already move 24 of 36 files out of /etc/cobbler
>
> Ultimately, we need to ask is a cluttered /etc/cobbler that much a
> problem that it would warrant the extra confusion of moving these around?
>
> We do save user-state in /etc/cobbler fairly consistently and I do
> consider these to be configuration files not state.
>
> New kickstarts created by the WebUI do go into
> /var/lib/cobbler/kickstarts.

The number of files makes it hard for new users to find the important configuration files like settings and modules.conf.

For pxe the location and templates are hardcoded in the scripts. Moving them to a new location shall have little impact. The rpm can install the pxe* files in /var/lib/cobbler/pxe. The %post can copy the pxe* files from /etc/cobbler to override the old settings

For the *.ks files it is a little more complex because they are referenced in the profiles/distros. The new *.ks files can be stored in /var/lib/cobbler/kickstarts. A cobbler check can be made to tell the user to move the *.ks files from /etc. Optionally an additional check in generate_kickstart_for_profile() can be added if a file does not exists in /etc/cobbler to check also in /var/lib/cobbler/kickstarts

Peter

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[Michael DeHaan]

Vreman, Peter - Acision wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [e-mail] [mailto:cobbler-
> > [e-mail]] On Behalf Of Michael DeHaan
> > Sent: woensdag 19 november 2008 21:30
> > To: cobbler mailing list
> > Subject: Re: number of files in /etc/cobbler
> >
> > Vreman, Peter - Acision wrote:
> > > When I looked at the pxe templates I noticed the amount of files in
> > > /etc/cobbler.
> > >
> > > Maybe we move some groups of the files to /var/lib/cobbler/xx/
> > >
> > > Some ideas:
> > >
> > > *.ks      /var/lib/cobbler/kickstarts (this directory already exists)
> > >
> > > Pxe*     /var/lib/cobbler/pxe
> >
> > Generally I agree with that filesystem layout being more ideal, though I
> > need to provide some background info.
> >
> > A lot of the things in Cobbler are the way there are for backwards
> > compatibility reasons, and not to break someone's install server when
> > someone does a "yum upgrade cobbler" and isn't aware of extra changes
> > they have to make.
> >
> > These are already hand-edited by a very large number of users.    I am
> > not entirely sure of the practically or "rightness" of moving these in
> > %post when they may be subject to configuration management.
> >
> > The most "user intervention required" update was cobbler 1.0, which
> > looked for a few common errors at startup and told users they needed to
> > move configuration files before cobbler would function again.   I'd
> > rather not do this if possible.
> > > Power*  /var/lib/cobbler/power
> >
> > This can be done now as no non-development versions have edited these
> > yet, however it's non-consistent with the above.
> > > On my node this will already move 24 of 36 files out of /etc/cobbler
> >
> > Ultimately, we need to ask is a cluttered /etc/cobbler that much a
> > problem that it would warrant the extra confusion of moving these around?
> >
> > We do save user-state in /etc/cobbler fairly consistently and I do
> > consider these to be configuration files not state.
> >
> > New kickstarts created by the WebUI do go into
> > /var/lib/cobbler/kickstarts.
>
> The number of files makes it hard for new users to find the important configuration files like settings and modules.conf.

Valid reason.
> For pxe the location and templates are hardcoded in the scripts. Moving them to a new location shall have little impact. The rpm can install the pxe* files in /var/lib/cobbler/pxe. The %post can copy the pxe* files from /etc/cobbler to override the old settings

This seems acceptable.

I'd argue that these are configuration files still and not user state.

If so /etc/cobbler/pxe and so forth might be more consistent.

Objections?

The one thing we can't replace without a "hack" of a code change is 
/etc/cobbler/ kickstart values in the profile and system objects. In 
this case the RPM should do a "cp" and not a "mv" while also packaging 
the new files in the new location. All other files should be a "mv".
> For the *.ks files it is a little more complex because they are referenced in the profiles/distros. The new *.ks files can be stored in /var/lib/cobbler/kickstarts. A cobbler check can be made to tell the user to move the *.ks files from /etc. Optionally an additional check in generate_kickstart_for_profile() can be added if a file does not exists in /etc/cobbler to check also in /var/lib/cobbler/kickstarts

Wow, you're one step ahead of me :)

I'd do it without the cobbler check and generate changes, I think. It's 
not neccessary as the old files for existing users would not be hurting 
anything if they lived in /etc.
> Peter
>
> This e-mail and any attachment is for authorised use by the intended recipient(s) only. It may contain proprietary material, confidential information and/or be subject to legal privilege. It should not be copied, disclosed to, retained or used by, any other party. If you are not an intended recipient then please promptly delete this e-mail and any attachment and all copies and inform the sender. Thank you.
>
> cobbler mailing list
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> https://fedorahosted.org/mailman/listinfo/cobbler

[Vreman, Peter]

> > The number of files makes it hard for new users to find the important
>
> configuration files like settings and modules.conf.
> >
>
> Valid reason.
> > For pxe the location and templates are hardcoded in the scripts. Moving
>
> them to a new location shall have little impact. The rpm can install the
> pxe* files in /var/lib/cobbler/pxe. The %post can copy the pxe* files from
> /etc/cobbler to override the old settings
> >
>
> This seems acceptable.
>
> I'd argue that these are configuration files still and not user state.
>
> If so /etc/cobbler/pxe and so forth might be more consistent.
>
> Objections?

No problem, the power templates can go to /etc/cobbler/power for consistency

Peter

This e-mail and any attachment is for authorised use by the intended recipient(s) only. It may contain proprietary material, confidential information and/or be subject to legal privilege. It should not be copied, disclosed to, retained or used by, any other party. If you are not an intended recipient then please promptly delete this e-mail and any attachment and all copies and inform the sender. Thank you.

[Michael DeHaan]

Vreman, Peter - Acision wrote:
> > > The number of files makes it hard for new users to find the important
> >
> > configuration files like settings and modules.conf.
> >
> > Valid reason.
> > > For pxe the location and templates are hardcoded in the scripts. Moving
> >
> > them to a new location shall have little impact. The rpm can install the
> > pxe* files in /var/lib/cobbler/pxe. The %post can copy the pxe* files from
> > /etc/cobbler to override the old settings
> >
> > This seems acceptable.
> >
> > I'd argue that these are configuration files still and not user state.
> >
> > If so /etc/cobbler/pxe and so forth might be more consistent.
> >
> > Objections?
>
> No problem, the power templates can go to /etc/cobbler/power for consistency
>
> Peter

Sounds good, if you'd like to send a patch in for this, I'll take it.

--Michael
> This e-mail and any attachment is for authorised use by the intended recipient(s) only. It may contain proprietary material, confidential information and/or be subject to legal privilege. It should not be copied, disclosed to, retained or used by, any other party. If you are not an intended recipient then please promptly delete this e-mail and any attachment and all copies and inform the sender. Thank you.
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[Javier Palacios]

> > If so /etc/cobbler/pxe and so forth might be more consistent.
> >
> > Objections?
>
> No problem, the power templates can go to /etc/cobbler/power for consistency

Moving the debian preseeds is also easier. It might not be good to separate
from kickstarts, but if the long term plan is attempt moving the kickstarts out
of /etc/cobbler it looks a better idea.

On the other side, I believe that this should be complemented with
an increase of configurability, trying to remove hardcoded paths within
cobbler. That could serve, at least, for make easier to package cobbler
for other distros.

Javier Palacios

[Michael DeHaan]

Javier Palacios wrote:
> > > If so /etc/cobbler/pxe and so forth might be more consistent.
> > >
> > > Objections?
> >
> > No problem, the power templates can go to /etc/cobbler/power for consistency
>
> Moving the debian preseeds is also easier. It might not be good to separate
> from kickstarts, but if the long term plan is attempt moving the kickstarts out
> of /etc/cobbler it looks a better idea.
>
> On the other side, I believe that this should be complemented with
> an increase of configurability, trying to remove hardcoded paths within
> cobbler. That could serve, at least, for make easier to package cobbler
> for other distros.

Agreed. And by kickstarts, yeah I mean "answer files" in the general 
sense. I expect before long we should have
some default autoyasts and maybe if someone is nice an Ubuntu kickseed 
and a gentoo-whatever-you-call it :)

Let's add the meta-path settings to /etc/cobbler/settings with sensible 
default values in settings.py so that for users
who do not have those settings yet they get the ones that are defined in 
the RPM.
> Javier Palacios
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