Since opening this list I was surprised by the enthusiasm especially for educational conferences. However I strongly believe that both my and Red Hat's efforts, time, and resources going toward K12LTSP at this point should be focused mainly on developmental priorities at first.
1) Development work to get K12LTSP merged as an official part of the Fedora distribution. - Submit all K12LTSP packages to the Extras review process - Adapt to the MueKow framework in order to eliminate lots of the redundant OS building. - Make K12LTSP into a "mode" you can enable and configure from a GUI interface after you install Fedora. - Write improved tools like selection of interfaces and it tells you what it will happen. That way you aren't surprised when a DHCP server pops up on an existing network, causing all kinds of fun conflicts. =)
2) Development work of marketing, promotional and educational materials in order to allow the message to scale to greater audiences with less effort and low marginal cost. - Educational videos - Pamphlets - Books
I *will* participate in the New England Linux education conferences because I am relatively nearby. If we have a hack-a-thon I will probably want to participate in that too.
Maybe we could set aside some private time for K12LTSP integration or MueKow integration design discussion sessions at one or both of the NELinux conferences?
Warren Togami wtogami@redhat.com
Fedora Education Initiative fedora-education-list@redhat.com on Friday, April 28, 2006 at 1:26 AM +0000 wrote:
Maybe we could set aside some private time for K12LTSP integration or MueKow integration design discussion sessions at one or both of the NELinux conferences?
I think that's a GREAT idea
David N. Trask Technology Teacher/Director Vassalboro Community School dtrask@vcsvikings.org (207)923-3100
I *will* participate in the New England Linux education conferences because I am relatively nearby. If we have a hack-a-thon I will probably want to participate in that too.
Maybe we could set aside some private time for K12LTSP integration or MueKow integration design discussion sessions at one or both of the NELinux conferences?
The hack-a-thon and the design discussions are great ideas, but AFAIK the LTSP devs aren't going to be at NELS. Jim McQuillan and Scott Balneaves can't be there, and we have no indication that Eric Harrison is planning to come. My guess is that a fedora-education design discussion WITH Eric will be worth 5 such discussions WITHOUT Eric.
It's really Jim and Scott who've done so much work with the Ubuntu team on Edubuntu, which is the first Muecow implementation (to my knowledge).
We would also be thrilled to have Eric there since we could perhaps talk him into helping with the LDAP session(s). :)
How about it, Eric? Is there any possibility that you could be in Bethel, ME from June 17-20, or in Durham, NH from July 16-19?
--matt
-- Open Source Software Engineering Consultant http://majen.net/
718 Fox Hollow Drive Hudson, NH 03051 U.S.A. +1 603.236.1054 (cell)
- Make K12LTSP into a "mode" you can enable and configure from a GUI
interface after you install Fedora.
- Write improved tools like selection of interfaces and it tells you
what it will happen. That way you aren't surprised when a DHCP server pops up on an existing network, causing all kinds of fun conflicts. =)
I really like this idea. I brought up something similar about a year ago on the K12 list, but it didn't get much response because it would have taken more work from the Fedora developers then the LTSP developers, and was sort of deemed out of their control.
But a GUI based set of "tools" to enable would be awesome. I had even thought of having something similar to a windows server (sorry for the comparison). When I do a fresh install I get a setup your new server type of window where I can select a category on the left such as directory server, and then in the pane on the right it walk me through whether this is the only server in the network, will this be a primary controller or secondary, blah blah blah and when I am finished I have an Active Directory Server. I could see something similar that had a category to setup the Fedora Directory Server, one to setup the LTSP server, etc. I also thought it would be great to tweak the LTSP install and allow you to do something similar to what Active Directory does, it would be great for larger installs to be able to do primary LTSP servers and secondary LTSP servers. A large problem I see is the the scalability of LTSP and the ease of doing such. One server is fine to run a lab or two. But some of the schools I want to install in need to run 600 machines. This requires multiple servers, and right now that is too complicated for most. This could also be expanded on and in the setup your server screen you could also have an application server section. Here you could have a menu to turn on application serving to a cluster of LTSP machines or to a primary LTSP server. This could also have designation for whether or not it is a primary or secondary application server. Say I want to server Open Office to my 600 LTSP machines, most likely no single server I build will handle 400 terminals in Open Office at once. I may want to spread this across 3 Open Office Servers.
Sorry for being a little verbose, but I had a lot of ideas on how this could look. I really think that scalability is huge to make Fedora/LTSP catch on in larger school districts.
Sorry so slow, but I've been away for a couple days....had to take in the Sox-Yankees home opener at Fenway :-)
Along the lines of what Jim said below....I have some ideas.
I can see essentially 3 or 4 (or 5) installation options for folks depending on their network setup....
#1 Standard install for single server using terminal server on a private LAN connect via another ethernet card to the public LAN or Internet. (this is the default now)
#2 Single NIC install where the K12LTSP server sits on the same LAN as everything else and provides DHCP to the same LAN
#3 Single NIC install with K12LTSP server on same LAN, but recieves DHCP from another server and does not provide DHCP to it's own terminals (essentially Next server option in dhcpd.conf).....by this same idea would be the option to set up a server (DHCP server) to be the one providing the DHCP to the other servers on the LAN (in other words...this server would include the "next server" option)
#4 DHCP load balancing/failover install.....(this is what I use)....can only be used with two servers....both servers are Single NIC installs on same LAN providing DHCP, but using somewhat little known options in dhcpd.conf you can have both servers hand out addresses and share the same lease table....using hashing they hand out addresses in a "first me, then you" basis, thus providing "poor man's" load balancing (and failover) by spreading the load over two servers.....and if one goes down...the other picks up the slack.
#5 Member server install.....not sure how this would work, but essentially the same idea as #3, but simply set up servers anywhere on the LAN and have them answer according to load or something like that (I haven't thought this one through yet)
Lastly.....and this would be a BIG HUGE plus.....the ability to use a Fedora Directory Server as a Samba/LDAP server essentially replacing AD, Windows Domain Controller, and so forth....to allow for central authentication for all workstations and terminals. Matt and I (Matt's the scripting guru....I'm the documentation/idea guy) have this working with the smbldap-installer (http://www.majen.net/smbldap/) for several distros.....haven't tested FC5 yet. This allows us (I use this in my school) to provide single sign on capability and single home directory for windows, K12LTSP, and OS X all in one server. It is possible to replicate and set up a BDC as well. The unfortunate fact, it that it's mostly CLI....not "pretty and clicky". Just from what I've seen....FDS (Fedora Directory Server) addresses this to some degree. Putting the Samba piece in place and allowing an install option for setting up a directory server to be used with a K12LTSP and/or other school network would be a HUGE selling point. Schools are moving in this direction. I've had single sign-on with roaming profiles....etc....for a few years. Many schools are still using mapped drives...common folders that anyone can write to....and even local hard drive storage ("do I have to sit at the same computer as last time?") scenarios. Single sign-on with central storage and authentication is a big sell at all the conferences I present at....and at NELS. Samba/LDAP is helping many folks get off the Windows Server hamster wheel.....packaging it with the "pretty-clicky" interface would really make this thing take off!
Fedora Education Initiative fedora-education-list@redhat.com on Tuesday, May 02, 2006 at 9:39 AM +0000 wrote:
- Make K12LTSP into a "mode" you can enable and configure from a GUI
interface after you install Fedora.
- Write improved tools like selection of interfaces and it tells you
what it will happen. That way you aren't surprised when a DHCP server pops up on an existing network, causing all kinds of fun conflicts. =)
I really like this idea. I brought up something similar about a year ago on the K12 list, but it didn't get much response because it would have taken more work from the Fedora developers then the LTSP developers, and was sort of deemed out of their control.
But a GUI based set of "tools" to enable would be awesome. I had even thought of having something similar to a windows server (sorry for the comparison). When I do a fresh install I get a setup your new server type of window where I can select a category on the left such as directory server, and then in the pane on the right it walk me through whether this is the only server in the network, will this be a primary controller or secondary, blah blah blah and when I am finished I have an Active Directory Server. I could see something similar that had a category to setup the Fedora Directory Server, one to setup the LTSP server, etc. I also thought it would be great to tweak the LTSP install and allow you to do something similar to what Active Directory does, it would be great for larger installs to be able to do primary LTSP servers and secondary LTSP servers. A large problem I see is the the scalability of LTSP and the ease of doing such. One server is fine to run a lab or two. But some of the schools I want to install in need to run 600 machines. This requires multiple servers, and right now that is too complicated for most. This could also be expanded on and in the setup your server screen you could also have an application server section. Here you could have a menu to turn on application serving to a cluster of LTSP machines or to a primary LTSP server. This could also have designation for whether or not it is a primary or secondary application server. Say I want to server Open Office to my 600 LTSP machines, most likely no single server I build will handle 400 terminals in Open Office at once. I may want to spread this across 3 Open Office Servers.
Sorry for being a little verbose, but I had a lot of ideas on how this could look. I really think that scalability is huge to make Fedora/LTSP catch on in larger school districts.
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David N. Trask Technology Teacher/Director Vassalboro Community School dtrask@vcsvikings.org (207)923-3100
Along the lines of what Jim said below....I have some ideas.
I can see essentially 3 or 4 (or 5) installation options for folks depending on their network setup....
This is sort of what I am thinking about. However I have a little different take I believe on when to install it. Installs are already cluttered up with options, and many users do not know what they want to do on initial install..especially new users. I would like to see a "Configure Your Server" app that can be called on at any time after installation. I say clear the LTSP stuff completely from the Fedora installer. Just keep basics that make it so you don't have to know crap to get it installed and show you a gui. Then make it so the root user when logged in automatically gets the "Configure Your Server" menu. This menu can have the checkbox for "don't show on startup" and some instructions after checking it that say where to go in the menu to find it later. Then this could be a dual paned menu app that had the categories like for Application Server, Directory/Samba Server, LTSP Server, DHCP Server, Home Directory Server, etc on the left. Then when the category on the left is selected a wizard for configuration of that category appears on the right. And give the many pieces that LTSP needs to work the wizard for LTSP would ask "will this be the home directory server or would you like to mount an existing one?", or "will this be the networks dhcp server or should I use an existing one?", or "will this server be the Master Directory Server or will this be a Sub Directory Server?" and if a Sub Directory Server is chosen, ask the IP of the Master Directory server, or "will this be a single or multiple NIC install?. You get the point. You could even put things under the DHCP, Home Directory, and Directory Server sections that say "if you are going to run an LTSP server, please configure these services in the LTSP server section. And maybe even some failsafes that grey out these menu choices if LTSP Server has already been configured to keep users from hosing up the LTSP configuration.
I think this sort of tool is exactly what would be needed to get into larger networks and really kick Windows/OSX out of the picture.
I would love to help design how this should look. I have zero knowledge on the scripting/coding to achieve such a thing, but have enough interaction with users that I think I know what would be needed.
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