2:44 a.m.
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 7:50 AM, Rahul Sundaram <metherid(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On 05/27/2010 12:15 PM, Bruno Wolff III wrote:
> On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 07:37:48 +0100,
> Peter Robinson <pbrobinson(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> WooHoo... nearly 2 days after the release and there's still no signs
>> of the Moblin spin. I'm not going to yell and scream like some would
>> about their spin but it would be nice to see some kind of update as to
>> why its still missing? I don't see that request as being unreasonable
>> after all I feel I put as much work into my spin and it can't help to
>> feel to me a little unfair and disappointed. If it was some other spin
>> all hell would have broken lose.
>>
> I think that would depend on which spin. This isn't the first time something
> bad has happened with a spin. I don't remember hell breaking loose in the
> past.
>
> Certainly it is unfortunate and disappointing that it happened.
>
I have long since advocated that spin owners be granted access in Fedora
infrastructure to compose their own spins and release engineering not
take this role. The current method is simply not scaling well and we
have seen enough proof of that by now.
I'm not sure the pros and cons to the above, or whether there's
something as basic as access to signing keys that might restrict that.
I'm quite happy for the infra team to deal with it, generally they've
done a sterling job and I hope to see Moblin spin shortly, pity its
well behind the watershed and the MeeGo 1 release will no doubt dampen
down the effect but that is life.
What I would like is a much better defined spin process. I've been
involved in the spin process for 2 releases now, managed to miss the
boat with F-12 because there was no where on the spin process and no
prior announcements to cut off dates. I actually made it in with 2
spins this process (maintain moblin, co-maintain sugar on a stick) but
it was certainly not without issues.
Peter
8:04 a.m.
New subject: MIA spins
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 08:44:50AM +0100, Peter Robinson wrote:
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 7:50 AM, Rahul Sundaram
<metherid(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On 05/27/2010 12:15 PM, Bruno Wolff III wrote:
>> On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 07:37:48 +0100,
>> Peter Robinson <pbrobinson(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> WooHoo... nearly 2 days after the release and there's still no signs
>>> of the Moblin spin. I'm not going to yell and scream like some would
>>> about their spin but it would be nice to see some kind of update as to
>>> why its still missing? I don't see that request as being unreasonable
>>> after all I feel I put as much work into my spin and it can't help to
>>> feel to me a little unfair and disappointed. If it was some other spin
>>> all hell would have broken lose.
>>>
>> I think that would depend on which spin. This isn't the first time
something
>> bad has happened with a spin. I don't remember hell breaking loose in the
>> past.
>>
>> Certainly it is unfortunate and disappointing that it happened.
>>
>
> I have long since advocated that spin owners be granted access in Fedora
> infrastructure to compose their own spins and release engineering not
> take this role. The current method is simply not scaling well and we
> have seen enough proof of that by now.
I'm not sure the pros and cons to the above, or whether there's
something as basic as access to signing keys that might restrict that.
I'm quite happy for the infra team to deal with it, generally they've
done a sterling job and I hope to see Moblin spin shortly, pity its
well behind the watershed and the MeeGo 1 release will no doubt dampen
down the effect but that is life.
What I would like is a much better defined spin process. I've been
involved in the spin process for 2 releases now, managed to miss the
boat with F-12 because there was no where on the spin process and no
prior announcements to cut off dates. I actually made it in with 2
spins this process (maintain moblin, co-maintain sugar on a stick) but
it was certainly not without issues.
Peter,
I agree that the spin process and ownership is in an unclear state. I
asked two questions in my original message that are unanswered, and I
think Spins SIG members must answer to improve the situation:
(1) Who is responsible for gathering schedule and report the changes
needed -- actionable tasks, who does them, and the start and end
dates?
(2) What are the unclear areas of the process, and what are the
suggestions for fixing them? (Note I already cleared up one area, but
surely there are others as Peter notes.)
A "fire and forget" approach once Spins are accepted doesn't encourage
the health and smooth operation of a SIG. It's important for all the
SIG members to help their fellows and the group by participating in a
review of the process and making it easier to follow.
--
Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/
gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/
Where open source multiplies: http://opensource.com
8:10 a.m.
New subject: MIA spins
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 2:04 PM, Paul W. Frields <stickster(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 08:44:50AM +0100, Peter Robinson wrote:
> On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 7:50 AM, Rahul Sundaram <metherid(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 05/27/2010 12:15 PM, Bruno Wolff III wrote:
> >> On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 07:37:48 +0100,
> >> Peter Robinson <pbrobinson(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> WooHoo... nearly 2 days after the release and there's still no
signs
> >>> of the Moblin spin. I'm not going to yell and scream like some
would
> >>> about their spin but it would be nice to see some kind of update as to
> >>> why its still missing? I don't see that request as being
unreasonable
> >>> after all I feel I put as much work into my spin and it can't help
to
> >>> feel to me a little unfair and disappointed. If it was some other spin
> >>> all hell would have broken lose.
> >>>
> >> I think that would depend on which spin. This isn't the first time
something
> >> bad has happened with a spin. I don't remember hell breaking loose in
the
> >> past.
> >>
> >> Certainly it is unfortunate and disappointing that it happened.
> >>
> >
> > I have long since advocated that spin owners be granted access in Fedora
> > infrastructure to compose their own spins and release engineering not
> > take this role. The current method is simply not scaling well and we
> > have seen enough proof of that by now.
>
> I'm not sure the pros and cons to the above, or whether there's
> something as basic as access to signing keys that might restrict that.
> I'm quite happy for the infra team to deal with it, generally they've
> done a sterling job and I hope to see Moblin spin shortly, pity its
> well behind the watershed and the MeeGo 1 release will no doubt dampen
> down the effect but that is life.
>
> What I would like is a much better defined spin process. I've been
> involved in the spin process for 2 releases now, managed to miss the
> boat with F-12 because there was no where on the spin process and no
> prior announcements to cut off dates. I actually made it in with 2
> spins this process (maintain moblin, co-maintain sugar on a stick) but
> it was certainly not without issues.
Peter,
I agree that the spin process and ownership is in an unclear state. I
asked two questions in my original message that are unanswered, and I
think Spins SIG members must answer to improve the situation:
(1) Who is responsible for gathering schedule and report the changes
needed -- actionable tasks, who does them, and the start and end
dates?
(2) What are the unclear areas of the process, and what are the
suggestions for fixing them? (Note I already cleared up one area, but
surely there are others as Peter notes.)
A "fire and forget" approach once Spins are accepted doesn't encourage
the health and smooth operation of a SIG. It's important for all the
SIG members to help their fellows and the group by participating in a
review of the process and making it easier to follow.
Thank you Paul appreciated. What is the status of actually getting the
Moblin spin up on s.fp.o? Its been 2 days and its still not there.
Fixing of the process is needed for F-14 but at the moment the 100s of
hours of work I have done for F-13 is still not available and I'm not
sure why.
Peter
9:51 a.m.
New subject: MIA spins
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 02:10:25PM +0100, Peter Robinson wrote:
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 2:04 PM, Paul W. Frields
<stickster(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 08:44:50AM +0100, Peter Robinson wrote:
>> On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 7:50 AM, Rahul Sundaram <metherid(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>> > On 05/27/2010 12:15 PM, Bruno Wolff III wrote:
>> >> On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 07:37:48 +0100,
>> >> Peter Robinson <pbrobinson(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> WooHoo... nearly 2 days after the release and there's still no
signs
>> >>> of the Moblin spin. I'm not going to yell and scream like some
would
>> >>> about their spin but it would be nice to see some kind of update as
to
>> >>> why its still missing? I don't see that request as being
unreasonable
>> >>> after all I feel I put as much work into my spin and it can't
help to
>> >>> feel to me a little unfair and disappointed. If it was some other
spin
>> >>> all hell would have broken lose.
>> >>>
>> >> I think that would depend on which spin. This isn't the first time
something
>> >> bad has happened with a spin. I don't remember hell breaking loose
in the
>> >> past.
>> >>
>> >> Certainly it is unfortunate and disappointing that it happened.
>> >>
>> >
>> > I have long since advocated that spin owners be granted access in Fedora
>> > infrastructure to compose their own spins and release engineering not
>> > take this role. The current method is simply not scaling well and we
>> > have seen enough proof of that by now.
>>
>> I'm not sure the pros and cons to the above, or whether there's
>> something as basic as access to signing keys that might restrict that.
>> I'm quite happy for the infra team to deal with it, generally they've
>> done a sterling job and I hope to see Moblin spin shortly, pity its
>> well behind the watershed and the MeeGo 1 release will no doubt dampen
>> down the effect but that is life.
>>
>> What I would like is a much better defined spin process. I've been
>> involved in the spin process for 2 releases now, managed to miss the
>> boat with F-12 because there was no where on the spin process and no
>> prior announcements to cut off dates. I actually made it in with 2
>> spins this process (maintain moblin, co-maintain sugar on a stick) but
>> it was certainly not without issues.
>
> Peter,
>
> I agree that the spin process and ownership is in an unclear state. I
> asked two questions in my original message that are unanswered, and I
> think Spins SIG members must answer to improve the situation:
>
> (1) Who is responsible for gathering schedule and report the changes
> needed -- actionable tasks, who does them, and the start and end
> dates?
>
> (2) What are the unclear areas of the process, and what are the
> suggestions for fixing them? (Note I already cleared up one area, but
> surely there are others as Peter notes.)
>
> A "fire and forget" approach once Spins are accepted doesn't
encourage
> the health and smooth operation of a SIG. It's important for all the
> SIG members to help their fellows and the group by participating in a
> review of the process and making it easier to follow.
Thank you Paul appreciated. What is the status of actually getting the
Moblin spin up on s.fp.o? Its been 2 days and its still not there.
Fixing of the process is needed for F-14 but at the moment the 100s of
hours of work I have done for F-13 is still not available and I'm not
sure why.
Let's check with Jesse when he's around -- it's still early in his
timezone and he may not be at the keyboard yet. He said yesterday he
was working on spinning the ISOs.
Originally I was intending this thread to be a general one where we
could collaborate on finding improvements to the spins process page
and a schedule that would help Spins SIG members manage that process.
At the same time, I agree we want to make the Moblin spin available,
but I'm worried we're obscuring this particular thread and once we fix
the immediate problem, it might die and we won't solve the more
general ones.
Should I just start a separate thread to make that clearer?
--
Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/
gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/
Where open source multiplies: http://opensource.com
10:27 a.m.
New subject: MIA spins
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 08:44:50 +0100,
Peter Robinson <pbrobinson(a)gmail.com> wrote:
What I would like is a much better defined spin process. I've been
involved in the spin process for 2 releases now, managed to miss the
boat with F-12 because there was no where on the spin process and no
prior announcements to cut off dates. I actually made it in with 2
spins this process (maintain moblin, co-maintain sugar on a stick) but
it was certainly not without issues.
Peter, are you interested in leading the Spins SIG? There are a few of us
that don't want to lead the team but are willing to help. In the past we
have volunteered to do needed tasks and I think you could expect us to
continue doing so going forward.
1:03 p.m.
New subject: MIA spins
On Thu, 2010-05-27 at 10:51 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote:
Let's check with Jesse when he's around -- it's still
early in his
timezone and he may not be at the keyboard yet. He said yesterday he
was working on spinning the ISOs.
The isos are spun, and I'm staging them to torrent and to the mirror.
They should be live later today.
--
Jesse Keating
Fedora -- Freedom² is a feature!
identi.ca: http://identi.ca/jkeating
5:01 p.m.
New subject: MIA spins
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 7:03 PM, Jesse Keating <jkeating(a)redhat.com> wrote:
On Thu, 2010-05-27 at 10:51 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote:
> Let's check with Jesse when he's around -- it's still early in his
> timezone and he may not be at the keyboard yet. He said yesterday he
> was working on spinning the ISOs.
The isos are spun, and I'm staging them to torrent and to the mirror.
They should be live later today.
Thanks Jesse, at that point does the web site go live?
Regards,
Peter
5:07 p.m.
New subject: MIA spins
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 4:27 PM, Bruno Wolff III <bruno(a)wolff.to> wrote:
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 08:44:50 +0100,
Peter Robinson <pbrobinson(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> What I would like is a much better defined spin process. I've been
> involved in the spin process for 2 releases now, managed to miss the
> boat with F-12 because there was no where on the spin process and no
> prior announcements to cut off dates. I actually made it in with 2
> spins this process (maintain moblin, co-maintain sugar on a stick) but
> it was certainly not without issues.
Peter, are you interested in leading the Spins SIG? There are a few of us
that don't want to lead the team but are willing to help. In the past we
have volunteered to do needed tasks and I think you could expect us to
continue doing so going forward.
Its something I would consider but its something that I don't believe
I will have the time to dedicate to properly in the next release
cycle. I've just moved to a more senior core infrastructure role in my
current company and have a massive schedule over the next 6 months or
so. Depending on how that all settles out and if no one is willing to
step up to the plate I may re-consider it for the F-15 release cycle.
I might also have more of a clue about the process by then :-P
Peter
8:40 p.m.
New subject: MIA spins
On Thu, 2010-05-27 at 23:01 +0100, Peter Robinson wrote:
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 7:03 PM, Jesse Keating
<jkeating(a)redhat.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 2010-05-27 at 10:51 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote:
>> Let's check with Jesse when he's around -- it's still early in his
>> timezone and he may not be at the keyboard yet. He said yesterday he
>> was working on spinning the ISOs.
>
> The isos are spun, and I'm staging them to torrent and to the mirror.
> They should be live later today.
Thanks Jesse, at that point does the web site go live?
Regards,
Peter
_______________________________________________
spins mailing list
spins(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/spins
That's a good question. I suspect you'll have to work with the websites
team to make sure there is a moblin page at spins.fedoraproject.org. I
can just make it show up on the spins mirror and on the torrent server.
--
Jesse Keating
Fedora -- Freedom² is a feature!
identi.ca: http://identi.ca/jkeating
8:43 p.m.
New subject: MIA spins
On 05/28/2010 07:10 AM, Jesse Keating wrote:
That's a good question. I suspect you'll have to work with the websites
team to make sure there is a moblin page at spins.fedoraproject.org. I
can just make it show up on the spins mirror and on the torrent server.
There is one already at
http://spins.fedoraproject.org/moblin/#downloads
You just need to send a note to webmaster AT fedoraproject.org when you
have finish uploading the image and setting up the torrent
Rahul
9:27 p.m.
New subject: MIA spins
On Thu, 2010-05-27 at 23:01 +0100, Peter Robinson wrote:
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 7:03 PM, Jesse Keating
<jkeating(a)redhat.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 2010-05-27 at 10:51 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote:
>> Let's check with Jesse when he's around -- it's still early in his
>> timezone and he may not be at the keyboard yet. He said yesterday he
>> was working on spinning the ISOs.
>
> The isos are spun, and I'm staging them to torrent and to the mirror.
> They should be live later today.
Thanks Jesse, at that point does the web site go live?
Ok, the torrent is live, and the isos are on the master spins mirror.
Websites, can you update the spins.fp.o page to list Moblin now?
--
Jesse Keating
Fedora -- Freedom² is a feature!
identi.ca: http://identi.ca/jkeating
5082
days inactive
5083
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10 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
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Bruno Wolff III -
Jesse Keating -
Paul W. Frields -
Peter Robinson -
Rahul Sundaram