Latam Swag for 2018.

[William Moreno]

Goodnight bex

Sorry for emailing you directly but today was the dead line defined to send
to you the swag request for Latam 2018 as agreed in:

1.
   https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/teams/fedora-latam/fedora-latam.2017-12-01...
   2.
   https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/teams/fedora-latam/fedora-latam.2017-11-24...

Only seven countries provided with shipping information and I have tried to
put all together in this wiki page:

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Swag_latam/2018

There is CC of this mail to any representative per country and CC to the
Ambassadors Latam Mailing list for the record.

As you can see we request more than just stickers, this is because we have
not access to produce those items in latam, for example most of the local
providers only accepts orders for 500 or more buttons or landyards. We have
tried to produce these products in quantities in a country and then send
them to others but it has not been easy to get them from one country to
another, in many occasions the shipping cost is greater than the cost of
the product and the quality is not always the desirable.

I am not sure about the unit cost of those products, we have not contacted
any provider to get quotes about then.

Stickermule looks like can be the provider for the stickers, for the
landyard a simple black landyard with the Fedora Logo can work (the more
economical the better if it is of quality) the same goes for pens, tomorow
I will work with Samuel to get the buttons desings ready to ask for the
desing team aprobal.

Please let me know is there is any way to help to get this is swag request
done.

Also please let us know about available budget if we need to decrease the
number of swag per country (always something will better that nothing).

Thanks a lot in advance, since all of the representatives per country
should be suscribed to the Ambassadors Latam Mailing List maybe we can
record all in comming replies in this mailings list

@Country representatives please check is the mail adress if fine and
quuantities.
@itamarpj I see you are asking about the same amount of swag of the rest of
latam, can you check this?

*William Moreno Reyes*
Colaborador Proyecto Fedora | Nicaragua
IRC:  williamjmorenor Canales: #fedora-latam ; #fedora-ni
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Williamjmorenor

[Brian Exelbierd]

Hi,

My comments are inline.

On Sat, Dec 9, 2017, at 05:49 AM, William Moreno wrote:
> Goodnight bex
>
> Sorry for emailing you directly but today was the dead line defined to
> send
> to you the swag request for Latam 2018 as agreed in:

Direct email is fine :).  I am glad you cc'ed in the list and everyone
else too.
> https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/teams/fedora-latam/fedora-latam.2017-12-01...
>    2.
>    https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/teams/fedora-latam/fedora-latam.2017-11-24...
>
> Only seven countries provided with shipping information and I have tried
> to
> put all together in this wiki page:
>
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Swag_latam/2018
>
> There is CC of this mail to any representative per country and CC to the
> Ambassadors Latam Mailing list for the record.
>
> As you can see we request more than just stickers, this is because we
> have
> not access to produce those items in latam, for example most of the local
> providers only accepts orders for 500 or more buttons or landyards. We
> have
> tried to produce these products in quantities in a country and then send
> them to others but it has not been easy to get them from one country to
> another, in many occasions the shipping cost is greater than the cost of
> the product and the quality is not always the desirable.
>
> I am not sure about the unit cost of those products, we have not
> contacted
> any provider to get quotes about then.
>
> Stickermule looks like can be the provider for the stickers, for the
> landyard a simple black landyard with the Fedora Logo can work (the more
> economical the better if it is of quality) the same goes for pens,
> tomorow
> I will work with Samuel to get the buttons desings ready to ask for the
> desing team aprobal.
>
> Please let me know is there is any way to help to get this is swag
> request
> done.

How about if we do this using this plan?

1. Can LATAM approve a ticket to fund this swag.  For now, use the
pricing at sticker mule and if LATAM is ok, give me the flexibility to
select vendors that meet our quality and timeline needs knowing that I
will prefer lower cost over higher cost.

2. Can you request the sticker spec materials for each sticker from the
design team?  They should be aware of stickermule's requirements.  Once
we have those, please send me the ticket numbers that have hte links and
I'll order stickers.

3. For the other swag, let me look into vendors so we can get the spec
requirements.  In the meanwhile, please make sure the design team is
aware that we will be requesting these designs so they can finalize them
now and then just need to produce the appropriate output for the
vendors.

Does this work?

regards,

bex
> Also please let us know about available budget if we need to decrease the
> number of swag per country (always something will better that nothing).
>
> Thanks a lot in advance, since all of the representatives per country
> should be suscribed to the Ambassadors Latam Mailing List maybe we can
> record all in comming replies in this mailings list
>
> @Country representatives please check is the mail adress if fine and
> quuantities.
> @itamarpj I see you are asking about the same amount of swag of the rest
> of
> latam, can you check this?
>
> *William Moreno Reyes*
> Colaborador Proyecto Fedora | Nicaragua
> IRC:  williamjmorenor Canales: #fedora-latam ; #fedora-ni
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Williamjmorenor
> _______________________________________________
> Embajadores-fedora-latam mailing list --
> [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to
> [e-mail]

[William Moreno]

Hello bex thanks for your fedback.
> How about if we do this using this plan?
> Can LATAM approve a ticket to fund this swag.  For now, use the
>
> pricing at sticker mule and if LATAM is ok, give me the flexibility to
> select vendors that meet our quality and timeline needs knowing that I
> will prefer lower cost over higher cost.

We have this ticket aproved 7th months ago, but without a budget for the
swag, this work for you or you think we must vote on a new ticket including
an approximate calculation of the budget to be executed?

https://pagure.io/ambassadors-latam/tasks/issue/406
> Can you request the sticker spec materials for each sticker from the
>
> design team?  They should be aware of stickermule's requirements.  Once
> we have those, please send me the ticket numbers that have hte links and
> I'll order stickers.

I will work on that.
> For the other swag, let me look into vendors so we can get the spec
>
> requirements.  In the meanwhile, please make sure the design team is
> aware that we will be requesting these designs so they can finalize them
> now and then just need to produce the appropriate output for the
> vendors.

And in this too, we have some advance in the spec for pens and landyards
anthe buttons should be ready soon,
> Does this work?

Yes it works, :) thank a lot for your help to get this done

[Brian Exelbierd]

On Wed, Dec 13, 2017, at 03:19 PM, William Moreno wrote:
> Hello bex thanks for your fedback.
> > How about if we do this using this plan?
> > Can LATAM approve a ticket to fund this swag.  For now, use the
> >
> > pricing at sticker mule and if LATAM is ok, give me the flexibility to
> > select vendors that meet our quality and timeline needs knowing that I
> > will prefer lower cost over higher cost.
>
> We have this ticket aproved 7th months ago, but without a budget for the
> swag, this work for you or you think we must vote on a new ticket
> including
> an approximate calculation of the budget to be executed?
>
> https://pagure.io/ambassadors-latam/tasks/issue/406

Works for me if it works for LATAM :)
> > Can you request the sticker spec materials for each sticker from the
> >
> > design team?  They should be aware of stickermule's requirements.  Once
> > we have those, please send me the ticket numbers that have hte links and
> > I'll order stickers.
>
> I will work on that.

cool and thank you.
> > For the other swag, let me look into vendors so we can get the spec
> >
> > requirements.  In the meanwhile, please make sure the design team is
> > aware that we will be requesting these designs so they can finalize them
> > now and then just need to produce the appropriate output for the
> > vendors.
>
> And in this too, we have some advance in the spec for pens and landyards
> anthe buttons should be ready soon,
> > Does this work?
>
> Yes it works, :) thank a lot for your help to get this done

sweet.

It looks like @duffy has some ideas for ordering from Staples.  They are
a known vendor with good quality.  I am going to bias toward them.

regards,

bex

[William Moreno]

Hello Bex, looking at the Ambassadors Latam Meeting logs from today looks
like we have a issue because some people want theirs swag in a neutral
language (english)and this can delay the process that is already advanced,
I will not force this but we have the current proposal for artwork almots
aproved by desing team and do not want to make you and the people working
in designs and the people reviewing those desings lost your time, so I want
to ask you if you any issue about go ahead with the Production of swag for
Nicragua with the current artwork, for stickets, buttons and pens I think
is not a problem but can be for landyars and sheapcubes because quanties,
but are you ok with this?

Also adding Samuel to the list, @searchsam did you have a moment to see the
last comments from @duffy in the desing team tickets?

Best Regards
William

[Eduard Lucena]

-1 for Local SWAG. We are trying to produce massively to reduce costs,
having Portuguese, Spanish, Engilsh and others will cut the initiative to
produce massively in one place and send them Worldwide.

Br,

2017-12-15 14:20 GMT-03:00 William Moreno <[e-mail]
> :
> Hello Bex, looking at the Ambassadors Latam Meeting logs from today looks
> like we have a issue because some people want theirs swag in a neutral
> language (english)and this can delay the process that is already advanced,
> I will not force this but we have the current proposal for artwork almots
> aproved by desing team and do not want to make you and the people working
> in designs and the people reviewing those desings lost your time, so I want
> to ask you if you any issue about go ahead with the Production of swag for
> Nicragua with the current artwork, for stickets, buttons and pens I think
> is not a problem but can be for landyars and sheapcubes because quanties,
> but are you ok with this?
>
> Also adding Samuel to the list, @searchsam did you have a moment to see
> the last comments from @duffy in the desing team tickets?
>
> Best Regards
> William
>
> Embajadores-fedora-latam mailing list -- embajadores-fedora-latam@
> lists.fedoraproject.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to embajadores-fedora-latam-
> [e-mail]

[Neville A. Cross]

This thread has turn out top-posting

This effort has been drived by people who has take time to ask several
time to ask for contribution on the list of needs/requests and to
provide feedback. The deadline for submitting needs/request of
swag has been postponed a couple of times.

This whole debate is stopping producing several items that are not
sensitive to language. Land yards, pens and stickers I see two cases
where language may be an issue.

a.- Buttons
b.- cheat-cubes.

Cheat-cubes needs a lot of information that needs to be localized.
Otherwise why do we have localization team? Why there are efforts to
translate documentation?

The general work been done openly in tickets and there has been low
feedback on it. Now, at the last minute it is been delayed again
instead of focus in the only item that may be questionable.

My view is that the rest of items should go forward. Only buttons
should be considered to see if the quantity requested make sense to
order as it is. Like to check if it is enough to have bulk discount. If
making Portuguese buttons do not pass the quantity bulk discount, and
they think is fine to have in English, then Brazil can wait to be
included when it is produced.

One consideration of centralize production was to get better quality.
The quantities required for having bulk discount in the first world are
lower than in LATAM.

I think it is needed to recognize the ammount of work that has been
done by few people.

Just my two cents.

On Fri, 15 Dec 2017 22:07:46 -0300
Eduard Lucena  wrote:
> -1 for Local SWAG. We are trying to produce massively to reduce costs,
> having Portuguese, Spanish, Engilsh and others will cut the
> initiative to produce massively in one place and send them Worldwide.
>
> Br,
>
> 2017-12-15 14:20 GMT-03:00 William Moreno
> <[e-mail]
> > :
> > Hello Bex, looking at the Ambassadors Latam Meeting logs from today
> > looks like we have a issue because some people want theirs swag in
> > a neutral language (english)and this can delay the process that is
> > already advanced, I will not force this but we have the current
> > proposal for artwork almots aproved by desing team and do not want
> > to make you and the people working in designs and the people
> > reviewing those desings lost your time, so I want to ask you if you
> > any issue about go ahead with the Production of swag for Nicragua
> > with the current artwork, for stickets, buttons and pens I think is
> > not a problem but can be for landyars and sheapcubes because
> > quanties, but are you ok with this?
> >
> > Also adding Samuel to the list, @searchsam did you have a moment to
> > see the last comments from @duffy in the desing team tickets?
> >
> > Best Regards
> > William
> >
> > Embajadores-fedora-latam mailing list -- embajadores-fedora-latam@
> > lists.fedoraproject.org
> > To unsubscribe send an email to embajadores-fedora-latam-
> > [e-mail]

[Brian Exelbierd]

I realize I am late in replying - I am sorry.

I have some comments inline below, however I want to say that ordering LATAM swag is very confusing.  It seems that many people are working under the assumption that we should do nothing until everything is perfect.  Perfect is the enemy of good.

Please, let us move forward in small chunks.  We cannot eat the elephant at once.

On Sat, Dec 16, 2017, at 4:50 PM, Neville A. Cross wrote:
> This thread has turn out top-posting
>
> This effort has been drived by people who has take time to ask several
> time to ask for contribution on the list of needs/requests and to
> provide feedback. The deadline for submitting needs/request of
> swag has been postponed a couple of times.
>
> This whole debate is stopping producing several items that are not
> sensitive to language. Land yards, pens and stickers I see two cases
> where language may be an issue.

If lanyards and stickers have designs, let's get them ordered.  They will likely come from different vendors so there is no shipping advantage to waiting.

The Pens are almost done (and probably from yet another vendor) but there is a final decision needed from this group in the ticket.
> a.- Buttons

My one problem with buttons is that I don't understand why we are doing three sizes.  1", 2.25" and 3".  2.25" and 3" are almost the same in my book.  Is this truly an issue?

From a language perspective, I would rather have buttons that will be worn with pride than lost in confusion.  If you're saying that your country needs language specific buttons, let's look at the costs and if they are not too crazy, let's do them.  If you're saying you want both English and a local language (insert other combinations as needed) I am wondering how much we have a real problem versus just a perceived one.
> b.- cheat-cubes.
>
> Cheat-cubes needs a lot of information that needs to be localized.
> Otherwise why do we have localization team? Why there are efforts to
> translate documentation?
>
> The general work been done openly in tickets and there has been low
> feedback on it. Now, at the last minute it is been delayed again
> instead of focus in the only item that may be questionable.

Exactly!  Because these are localized they will almost always be small print runs.  This is also something which may be able to be produced quickly locally IF we can guarantee quality.
> My view is that the rest of items should go forward. Only buttons
> should be considered to see if the quantity requested make sense to
> order as it is. Like to check if it is enough to have bulk discount. If
> making Portuguese buttons do not pass the quantity bulk discount, and
> they think is fine to have in English, then Brazil can wait to be
> included when it is produced.
>
> One consideration of centralize production was to get better quality.
> The quantities required for having bulk discount in the first world are
> lower than in LATAM.
>
> I think it is needed to recognize the ammount of work that has been
> done by few people.
>
> Just my two cents.

I've chosen to mostly agree with Neville, just in different words :).

Let's get this stuff ordered!

regards,

bex
> On Fri, 15 Dec 2017 22:07:46 -0300
> Eduard Lucena  wrote:
> > -1 for Local SWAG. We are trying to produce massively to reduce costs,
> > having Portuguese, Spanish, Engilsh and others will cut the
> > initiative to produce massively in one place and send them Worldwide.
> >
> > Br,
> >
> > 2017-12-15 14:20 GMT-03:00 William Moreno
> > <[e-mail]
> > > :
> > > Hello Bex, looking at the Ambassadors Latam Meeting logs from today
> > > looks like we have a issue because some people want theirs swag in
> > > a neutral language (english)and this can delay the process that is
> > > already advanced, I will not force this but we have the current
> > > proposal for artwork almots aproved by desing team and do not want
> > > to make you and the people working in designs and the people
> > > reviewing those desings lost your time, so I want to ask you if you
> > > any issue about go ahead with the Production of swag for Nicragua
> > > with the current artwork, for stickets, buttons and pens I think is
> > > not a problem but can be for landyars and sheapcubes because
> > > quanties, but are you ok with this?
> > >
> > > Also adding Samuel to the list, @searchsam did you have a moment to
> > > see the last comments from @duffy in the desing team tickets?
> > >
> > > Best Regards
> > > William
> > >
> > > Embajadores-fedora-latam mailing list -- embajadores-fedora-latam@
> > > lists.fedoraproject.org
> > > To unsubscribe send an email to embajadores-fedora-latam-
> > > [e-mail]
>
> Embajadores-fedora-latam mailing list -- embajadores-fedora-
> [e-mail]
> To unsubscribe send an email to embajadores-fedora-latam-
> [e-mail]

[William Moreno]

> > a.- Buttons
>
> My one problem with buttons is that I don't understand why we are doing
> three sizes.  1", 2.25" and 3".  2.25" and 3" are almost the same in my
> book.  Is this truly an issue?
>
> From a language perspective, I would rather have buttons that will be worn
> with pride than lost in confusion.  If you're saying that your country
> needs language specific buttons, let's look at the costs and if they are
> not too crazy, let's do them.  If you're saying you want both English and a
> local language (insert other combinations as needed) I am wondering how
> much we have a real problem versus just a perceived one.

I am not really sure where the desition to make 3 different sizes of
buttons came from, the wiki was filled with 3 diferent buttons sizes when I
look over it, I just follow this pattern, I supose it comes from the FAD in
Peru, the only issue I saw was that do not make sence have the same desing
in 3 diferrent sizes, this is why I asked for a review of the buttons
desings, and now we have a small, fancy 1" button with the OK of desing
team that work great for all the Fedora Project swag requeriments I think
:) .

I think the key difference is the button usage:

Small Buttons are intended to be use in events like stickers as a litle
gift to people that show real interest in Fedora, similar to cheat cubes,
they do not cost much and in universities if you give a sticker to a
student and then the student uses it in her backpack is great and they work
well as part of a loyalty strategy in a region where each user counts if we
want to achieve the critical mass of users to keep being relevant.

Mediun buttons are for users (I mean people already using Fedora that are
our hopes of posible new contributors to the project), it is easy to know
when a person is using Fedora when in a even this persons talk to you about
how Fedora have improved the upgrade procces, or that he is missing some
app that can be nice to have packaged in Fedora, any way it is always easy
to know when do you find a Fedora user in a event, give a button to a user
is a nice gift I think, even more if the button have a message aligned with
core Fedora values.

Big buttoms are for contributors, like those buttons that you see in a
market with a message saying "What can I help you" with this button will be
easy to identify a Fedora Contributor in a big event.

I hope this help to justify with we are asking for 3 diferrent stickers
sizes.

I agree that for next year we can drop the 3" button and have more 1"
buttons, if we follow the contributors only approach with this desing we
will have enougth big buttons for a couple of years :)

[William Moreno]

Hello bex, I just want to ask you if you have had time to order the swag
for latam or if you need something for us to advance in this process

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Swag_latam/2018

Best Regards

*William Moreno Reyes*
Colaborador Proyecto Fedora | Nicaragua
IRC:  williamjmorenor Canales: #fedora-latam ; #fedora-ni
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Williamjmorenor