Shipping of Latam Swag

[William Moreno]

Guys, reading this logs, about the shipping of the sawg, don´t you think
that shipping per event only will increase the cost? I remember we have a
delay of two weaks to get the artwork of the buttons for a ῀U$5. issue for
having a version of a button in spanish and another in portuguese, but a
per event shipment will increase cost a lot more tha U$5, and I supose will
be more work for @bex

https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2018-04-06/fedora_lata...


William Moreno Reyes
http://about.me/williamjmorenor

[Neville A. Cross]

On Fri, 6 Apr 2018 13:52:07 -0600
William Moreno <williamjmorenor(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:

>  Guys, reading this logs, about the shipping of the sawg, don´t you
>  think that shipping per event only will increase the cost? I remember
>  we have a delay of two weaks to get the artwork of the buttons for a
>  ῀U$5. issue for having a version of a button in spanish and another
>  in portuguese, but a per event shipment will increase cost a lot more
>  tha U$5, and I supose will be more work for @bex
>  
>
> https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2018-04-06/fedora_lata...
>   
I am not sure about other countries but for Nicaragua will be a lot of
extra work. Every shipment will require to clear custom, which will
need an invoice of the items shipped. This will be a burden to Bex. It
will require to deal with a custom agent from my side.

Also will increase costs. Every shipment need to pay USD 5.00 for the
custom form and pay the custom agent that will range from USD 7.5 to
USD 14.00. I am not including taxes, as taxes vary according to the
value of the items. 

Just some facts to consider this decision.

Neville

[Vendaval]

Hello,

Yeah,I agree per events shipping increases the cost, but at this time the
countries landing pages only shows one event per country with event
registered, so this is not actually a real problem.

my two cents,

regards.

P.D: Also we need to migrate the actual wiki structure from (by example)

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Events/Latam/FLISOL/FLISOL2018/Country/city

to

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Events/Latam/FLISOL/2018/Country/city


El sáb., 7 abr 2018 11:31 a. m., Neville A. Cross <yn1v(a)taygon.com&gt;
escribió:

>  On Fri, 6 Apr 2018 13:52:07 -0600
>  William Moreno <williamjmorenor(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>
>  > Guys, reading this logs, about the shipping of the sawg, don´t you
>  > think that shipping per event only will increase the cost? I remember
>  > we have a delay of two weaks to get the artwork of the buttons for a
>  > ῀U$5. issue for having a version of a button in spanish and another
>  > in portuguese, but a per event shipment will increase cost a lot more
>  > tha U$5, and I supose will be more work for @bex
>  >
>  > https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2018-04-
>  06/fedora_latam.2018-04-06-14.09.log.html
>  >
>
>  I am not sure about other countries but for Nicaragua will be a lot of
>  extra work. Every shipment will require to clear custom, which will
>  need an invoice of the items shipped. This will be a burden to Bex. It
>  will require to deal with a custom agent from my side.
>
>  Also will increase costs. Every shipment need to pay USD 5.00 for the
>  custom form and pay the custom agent that will range from USD 7.5 to
>  USD 14.00. I am not including taxes, as taxes vary according to the
>  value of the items.
>
>  Just some facts to consider this decision.
>
>  Neville
>  _______________________________________________
>  Embajadores-fedora-latam mailing list -- embajadores-fedora-latam@
>  lists.fedoraproject.org
>  To unsubscribe send an email to embajadores-fedora-latam-
>  leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>

[alejandro perez]

There are many events done withing the year, some will be small other large or shared
across countries like Flisol or SFD, every country do his own events, some of them are
Fedora sponsor or part of the FLOSS eco system, where Fedora get in hands organizing.
On the pass we have try to shipping Swags I had been a liaison to ship from Panama to
other countries on latam, on some cases it work, like when we did the Fedora Pins I got
them in Panama and send them to every country in latam, using regular mail and in small
amount that way it was not a big issue. But I had to pay taxes to get them in Panama. But
that was one time and this pins where small, also took a month to get here and then
another month to get them on the other countries, so sending swag for small events every
time a country need do not work the time and the effort. If it is one time it may work,
but not for a specific event but to send stuff to every country once a year. Better if
there is a event that allow many ambassadors to meet once a year.

If you ask me, it will not save us money.

my two cents.

-----Mensaje original-----

Fecha: Sat, 7 Apr 2018 11:52:14 -0700
Asunto: [Embajadores-fedora-latam] Re: Shipping of Latam Swag
Para: Latin American Fedora Ambassadors
<[e-mail]<mailto:Latin[e-mail]%3e>>
Reply-to: Latin American Fedora Ambassadors
<embajadores-fedora-latam(a)lists.fedoraproject.org&gt;
De: Vendaval
<[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]%3e>>
Hello,

Yeah,I agree per events shipping increases the cost, but at this time the countries
landing pages only shows one event per country with event registered, so this is not
actually a real problem.

my two cents,

regards.

P.D: Also we need to migrate the actual wiki structure from (by example)

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Events/Latam/FLISOL/FLISOL2018/Country/city

to

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Events/Latam/FLISOL/2018/Country/city


El sáb., 7 abr 2018 11:31 a. m., Neville A. Cross
<[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> escribió:
On Fri, 6 Apr 2018 13:52:07 -0600
William Moreno <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
wrote:

>  Guys, reading this logs, about the shipping of the sawg, don´t you
>  think that shipping per event only will increase the cost? I remember
>  we have a delay of two weaks to get the artwork of the buttons for a
>  ῀U$5. issue for having a version of a button in spanish and another
>  in portuguese, but a per event shipment will increase cost a lot more
>  tha U$5, and I supose will be more work for @bex
>
>
> https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2018-04-06/fedora_lata...
>
>  
I am not sure about other countries but for Nicaragua will be a lot of
extra work. Every shipment will require to clear custom, which will
need an invoice of the items shipped. This will be a burden to Bex. It
will require to deal with a custom agent from my side.

Also will increase costs. Every shipment need to pay USD 5.00 for the
custom form and pay the custom agent that will range from USD 7.5 to
USD 14.00. I am not including taxes, as taxes vary according to the
value of the items.

Just some facts to consider this decision.

Neville
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[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
To unsubscribe send an email to
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To unsubscribe send an email to
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[Eduard Lucena]

Let me clear a little bit of this.

There is no really a need to request SWAG per event. The idea is to request
the needs, even if there is 3, 4 or 100 events already in scope. The idea
is not to have a warehouse of swag, but to have the swag for fulfill the
needs.

Look at this example, that have both rights and wrongs:

Example ticket [1]:

>  I'm going to three events in April:
>
>     - Talking at OpenSchool - Red Hat organized event targeting high
>     school students (and therefor a lot of girls)
>     - Talking at OpenHouse - Red Hat organized event targeting university
>     students and professionals
>     - Code girls - Local event for high school girls where some other
>     RedHatters participate, it's about talking to girls about our experiences,
>     showing them our work, etc...
>
>  Further my near-future activities will include:
>
>     - Weekly or bi-weekly worshops for high school students (aiming to
>     catch the interest of the girls without positive discrimination)
>     - Local meetup or two during summer
>     - Start an organization similar to pyladies
>
>  
The first part is absolutely right, the request is in advance for 3
conferences. The second part is assuming future events without planning or
even accurate information if thees things happens.

It's too easy to make assumptions instead of asking and having the right
information. The problem is not about the money, it's about organization,
logistic and having the right resources at time.

I hope this is clear now.

Br,

[1] https://pagure.io/fedora-diversity/issue/59

-- 
Eduard Lucena
Móvil: [phone]
GNU/Linux User #589060
Ubuntu User #8749
Fedora Marketing Representative

[William Moreno]

2018-04-09 10:26 GMT-06:00 Eduard Lucena <eduardlucena(a)gmail.com&gt;:

>  Let me clear a little bit of this.
>
>  There is no really a need to request SWAG per event. The idea is to
>  request the needs, even if there is 3, 4 or 100 events already in scope.
>  The idea is not to have a warehouse of swag, but to have the swag for
>  fulfill the needs.
>
>  Look at this example, that have both rights and wrongs:
>
>  Example ticket [1]:
>
> > I'm going to three events in April:
> >
> >    - Talking at OpenSchool - Red Hat organized event targeting high
> >    school students (and therefor a lot of girls)
> >    - Talking at OpenHouse - Red Hat organized event targeting university
> >    students and professionals
> >    - Code girls - Local event for high school girls where some other
> >    RedHatters participate, it's about talking to girls about our experiences,
> >    showing them our work, etc...
> >
> > Further my near-future activities will include:
> >
> >    - Weekly or bi-weekly worshops for high school students (aiming to
> >    catch the interest of the girls without positive discrimination)
> >    - Local meetup or two during summer
> >    - Start an organization similar to pyladies
> >
> >
>  The first part is absolutely right, the request is in advance for 3
>  conferences. The second part is assuming future events without planning or
>  even accurate information if thees things happens.
>
>  It's too easy to make assumptions instead of asking and having the right
>  information. The problem is not about the money, it's about organization,
>  logistic and having the right resources at time.
>
>  I hope this is clear now.
>
>  
Yes I do understand that we MUST try to keep the found we spent of SWAG
production sending a lot of material to a country that will no make use of
the SWAG, but Peru, Brazil and Nicaragua have been the most actives
communities, and we past for a planning procces to stimate the quantities
and make a budget.

Yes your commnet  in valid, but also please do not underestimate the
planning to request swag quantities, at least we do not put arbitrary data
on this table:

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Swag_latam/2018

Our idea was to have swag for 2018 and part of 2019 so we do not need to
ask againg for swag in a long tern, as Neville have said ship to Nicaragua
will be very expensive and we prefer to have a small warehouse of swag to
spend money in shipping, this is our event planing to 2018 and early 2019:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BqW9BR-dyCDu9YwbG27KHJEpRfxlo-nya...

So I want to propoce a single shipping of swag for Nicaragua, since those
are the quantities we request since the begining,

[Eduard Lucena]

Hello,


> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BqW9BR-dyCDu9YwbG27KHJEpRfxlo-
>  nya6NDLBG1_w8/edit?usp=sharing
>
>  So I want to propoce a single shipping of swag for Nicaragua, since those
>  are the quantities we request since the begining,
>  
Going back to my example, this thing is just a ticket very well justified.
So I still don't understand why the whole thread if you have the planning
and can make it in only one valid ticket? Just do a ticket and put this
planning!

I think we should be ready to get the swag shipped.

P.D.: I'm not underestimating anything, but if you don't put clear that you
have a valid reason (like your sheet with the planning) it's impossible for
us to know why are you requesting these amounts.

Br,

-- 
Eduard Lucena
Móvil: [phone]
GNU/Linux User #589060
Ubuntu User #8749
Fedora Marketing Representative

[William Moreno]

2018-04-09 12:22 GMT-06:00 Eduard Lucena <eduardlucena(a)gmail.com&gt;:

>  Hello,
>
>
> > https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BqW9BR-dyCDu9YwbG27K
> > HJEpRfxlo-nya6NDLBG1_w8/edit?usp=sharing
> >
> > So I want to propoce a single shipping of swag for Nicaragua, since those
> > are the quantities we request since the begining,
> >
>
>  Going back to my example, this thing is just a ticket very well justified.
>  So I still don't understand why the whole thread if you have the planning
>  and can make it in only one valid ticket? Just do a ticket and put this
>  planning!
>
>  I think we should be ready to get the swag shipped.
>  
My fear is that the swag will not arrive on time for Flisol, I and trust me
that I am not really happy with a 8 months procces to get some good quality
swag for 2018 that have not been the most funny procces, and the option of
print sticker with a local provider to supply Flisol will be a real and
unnecessary waste or resources.

The experience in Latam in the last years (five or six years ago) is that
shipping is a big cost, logistic do not work the way we like and we should
request the shippment of something two months before the event to get then
on time, and now we do not have fudcon to put of the swag in a single place
and make it available for ambassadors.

Some maybe I am not putting atention but I did undertand that based on this
table:

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Swag_latam/2018

The swag should be shipped where ready withot the need of aditional
tickets, there was not that request at that moment.

And this is the first time I see in the Fedora Project that we do not trust
in ours ambassadors to get then some swap and trust that they will use it
properly, this is a real new big issue, and I do not like it.


>  P.D.: I'm not underestimating anything, but if you don't put clear that
>  you have a valid reason (like your sheet with the planning) it's impossible
>  for us to know why are you requesting these amounts.
>
>  
Because we have a real comunication problem, I did never hear that we must
needd to justificte the amounts of swag we were asking, if so I would have
put the info in the wiki a lot of months ago, I did not see any
communication about that, I always see in meeting log that people will send
a mail to the Ambassadors Mailing list but I do not see the mails and this
do not help a lot with communication.

I am not really sure if the problem is me but this swag production have
been a real pain and a rather cumbersome process, if you ask me to justify
the swag request, I will do it, if you ask me to open a tickt asking for
all the was for the year I will do it,  if you ask to make a schedule of
event I will do it, if you ask  to send a mail asking to get the swag
shipped becasue we were ready to start promoting Fedora with it, I will do
it, but I can not do something that I am not aware about, and a mail to the
mailing list is something that can help a lot.

I do undestand that there is a new generation of contributors in the Fedora
project and things will change but currently I saw there was a procces that
was stuck and without moving and I saw a way to help to all latam, this was
a project with a few fedback, totally thankless and with many critics and
we are in the last step to get the process done and we are stuck again,
this way Latam is becoming a hard place to help and I will just wait to get
this theme of the swap fixed and will move to others project where help is
wanted, just will keep around in the Fedora Project to keep the packages I
care.

I only hope to not have a Flisol with out Fedora swap.

Regards