In about a month, Red Hat will be operating in its FY 2011. So I think it would behoove us to open up the bid process for the FUDCon for North America immediately. Are there any blockers to doing that right now?
Second, I have a suggestion to make for the wiki but didn't want to just override the considered work of those who documented the organization process on this page:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_organization_process
In particular, the schedule says that FUDCon will take 8-15 hours of time up until 1 month before the event. Is that a bit high, or do we really mean a *maximum* of 8-15 hours a week?
On Wed, Feb 03, 2010 at 07:00:58PM -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote:
In about a month, Red Hat will be operating in its FY 2011. So I think it would behoove us to open up the bid process for the FUDCon for North America immediately. Are there any blockers to doing that right now?
Also, if you count from right now, it's 10 months to the beginning of FY 2011 Q4, which seems like good timing to me.
Second, I have a suggestion to make for the wiki but didn't want to just override the considered work of those who documented the organization process on this page:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_organization_process
In particular, the schedule says that FUDCon will take 8-15 hours of time up until 1 month before the event. Is that a bit high, or do we really mean a *maximum* of 8-15 hours a week?
?
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_organization_process
In particular, the schedule says that FUDCon will take 8-15 hours of time up until 1 month before the event. Is that a bit high, or do we really mean a *maximum* of 8-15 hours a week?
Ah, yes - I think that's more accurate. Edited. (Chris, feel free to disagree with me. ;)
I think I'd rather err on the side of highballing that estimate, so people don't budget too *little* time for planning - it /is/ quite a commitment. I also think we'll be able to adjust that estimate a bit better once the first FUDCon runs through this planning process and the organizers tell us how much time it actually took them now that there are supporting docs and such.
--Mel
On Thu, 2010-02-04 at 23:16 -0500, Mel Chua wrote:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_organization_process
In particular, the schedule says that FUDCon will take 8-15 hours of time up until 1 month before the event. Is that a bit high, or do we really mean a *maximum* of 8-15 hours a week?
Ah, yes - I think that's more accurate. Edited. (Chris, feel free to disagree with me. ;)
I saw the 15 hour estimate and it looked quite high to me, so I changed changed it to 8-15 hours, though I still considered that high. So yes, "up to 8-15 hours" sounds better.
(Also, I just noticed the heading levels were wonky -- everything was a sub-point of "What you should already have" -- so I just ran it through sed to clean them up).
-Chris
On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 7:00 PM, Paul W. Frields stickster@gmail.com wrote:
In about a month, Red Hat will be operating in its FY 2011. So I think it would behoove us to open up the bid process for the FUDCon for North America immediately. Are there any blockers to doing that right now?
The blockers would be $budget_giving_entity announcing a general amount budgeted. Of course we have a known general amount that we can use in the absence of the above.
Second, I have a suggestion to make for the wiki but didn't want to just override the considered work of those who documented the organization process on this page:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_organization_process
In particular, the schedule says that FUDCon will take 8-15 hours of time up until 1 month before the event. Is that a bit high, or do we really mean a *maximum* of 8-15 hours a week?
IIRC the though was that T-6M til T-1M was about 8 hours a week, occasionally having more than that.
On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 7:26 PM, David Nalley david@gnsa.us wrote:
On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 7:00 PM, Paul W. Frields stickster@gmail.com wrote:
In about a month, Red Hat will be operating in its FY 2011. So I think it would behoove us to open up the bid process for the FUDCon for North America immediately. Are there any blockers to doing that right now?
The blockers would be $budget_giving_entity announcing a general amount budgeted. Of course we have a known general amount that we can use in the absence of the above.
Yes, we should be able to assume a round number of $20K as in previous events for argument's sake, so this is a "soft" blocker.
I realized that the bid process document doesn't make it clear that we should already have dates for the event. It won't be easy for bidders to get travel and lodging costs figured out unless they know when travel is taking place.
So first, I recommend that we add some documentation directly to the FUDCon organization page that describes how and when event timing is decided:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_organization_process
Now, having said that... We know the NA FUDCon will take place in Q4, December - February. The key factors are:
* Holidays. The last half of December and the beginning of January are out because most most North America will be celebrating the season. Also note that holiday vacations may make planning more of a challenge leading up to a January event.
* School sessions. The beginning of December tends to be harder to schedule free space at most universities and colleges because classes or final exams are in session. We were fortunate that Seneca @York had space available in Toronto during the first weekend in December, but that may not be the case in most places.
* Attendance. Similarly, students have a harder time attending an early December FUDCon because of classes and exams. For example, Ricky Zhou couldn't attend this year for this exact reason. While we don't want a schedule to hang on just a very small group of people, student attendance at any event can be a big gain for the event, exposing potential new contributors to the Fedora community.
* Development cycle. If we wait until too late in the Fedora release cycle to have a FUDCon, there may not be sufficient time before the release to work on the initiatives set up at the event. However, if the FUDCon concentrates on initiatives *following* the next release this may be less of a problem. In other words, this NA FUDCon is held before the release of Fedora 14, and perhaps could concentrate on what will happen *after* that release.
Balancing these conflicting pressures is always difficult. In Toronto we opted for an early December event, but it was not without tradeoffs. This coming year, December 3-6, January 7-10, or January 14-17 look like they will best meet our needs.
Thoughts from the group? How should we decide what dates to use?
Paul
On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 6:44 AM, Paul Frields stickster@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 7:26 PM, David Nalley david@gnsa.us wrote:
On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 7:00 PM, Paul W. Frields stickster@gmail.com wrote:
In about a month, Red Hat will be operating in its FY 2011. So I think it would behoove us to open up the bid process for the FUDCon for North America immediately. Are there any blockers to doing that right now?
The blockers would be $budget_giving_entity announcing a general amount budgeted. Of course we have a known general amount that we can use in the absence of the above.
Yes, we should be able to assume a round number of $20K as in previous events for argument's sake, so this is a "soft" blocker.
I realized that the bid process document doesn't make it clear that we should already have dates for the event. It won't be easy for bidders to get travel and lodging costs figured out unless they know when travel is taking place.
So first, I recommend that we add some documentation directly to the FUDCon organization page that describes how and when event timing is decided:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_organization_process
Now, having said that... We know the NA FUDCon will take place in Q4, December - February. The key factors are:
- Holidays. The last half of December and the beginning of January are
out because most most North America will be celebrating the season. Also note that holiday vacations may make planning more of a challenge leading up to a January event.
- School sessions. The beginning of December tends to be harder to
schedule free space at most universities and colleges because classes or final exams are in session. We were fortunate that Seneca @York had space available in Toronto during the first weekend in December, but that may not be the case in most places.
- Attendance. Similarly, students have a harder time attending an
early December FUDCon because of classes and exams. For example, Ricky Zhou couldn't attend this year for this exact reason. While we don't want a schedule to hang on just a very small group of people, student attendance at any event can be a big gain for the event, exposing potential new contributors to the Fedora community.
- Development cycle. If we wait until too late in the Fedora release
cycle to have a FUDCon, there may not be sufficient time before the release to work on the initiatives set up at the event. However, if the FUDCon concentrates on initiatives *following* the next release this may be less of a problem. In other words, this NA FUDCon is held before the release of Fedora 14, and perhaps could concentrate on what will happen *after* that release.
Balancing these conflicting pressures is always difficult. In Toronto we opted for an early December event, but it was not without tradeoffs. This coming year, December 3-6, January 7-10, or January 14-17 look like they will best meet our needs.
December 3 - 6 is right in the middle of Hanukkah (2nd - 10th this year). We should probably avoid those dates. :)
WIth the January dates, I'd imagine most college students will have their first days back either on the 10th or 18th (17th is MLK day in the US). I'm not sure how this would impact things, but it is something to consider. Also, I don't know if venues / hotels take advantage of the three-day-weekend-for-some-people opportunity over MLK Day and raise pricing for events / lodging / etc (or alternately, lower the pricing) but it might be worth looking into.
-Robyn
Thoughts from the group? How should we decide what dates to use?
Paul _______________________________________________ fudcon-planning mailing list fudcon-planning@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/fudcon-planning
On Mon, Feb 08, 2010 at 10:47:11AM -0700, Robyn Bergeron wrote:
On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 6:44 AM, Paul Frields stickster@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 7:26 PM, David Nalley david@gnsa.us wrote:
On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 7:00 PM, Paul W. Frields stickster@gmail.com wrote:
In about a month, Red Hat will be operating in its FY 2011. So I think it would behoove us to open up the bid process for the FUDCon for North America immediately. Are there any blockers to doing that right now?
The blockers would be $budget_giving_entity announcing a general amount budgeted. Of course we have a known general amount that we can use in the absence of the above.
Yes, we should be able to assume a round number of $20K as in previous events for argument's sake, so this is a "soft" blocker.
I realized that the bid process document doesn't make it clear that we should already have dates for the event. It won't be easy for bidders to get travel and lodging costs figured out unless they know when travel is taking place.
So first, I recommend that we add some documentation directly to the FUDCon organization page that describes how and when event timing is decided:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_organization_process
Now, having said that... We know the NA FUDCon will take place in Q4, December - February. The key factors are:
- Holidays. The last half of December and the beginning of January are
out because most most North America will be celebrating the season. Also note that holiday vacations may make planning more of a challenge leading up to a January event.
- School sessions. The beginning of December tends to be harder to
schedule free space at most universities and colleges because classes or final exams are in session. We were fortunate that Seneca @York had space available in Toronto during the first weekend in December, but that may not be the case in most places.
- Attendance. Similarly, students have a harder time attending an
early December FUDCon because of classes and exams. For example, Ricky Zhou couldn't attend this year for this exact reason. While we don't want a schedule to hang on just a very small group of people, student attendance at any event can be a big gain for the event, exposing potential new contributors to the Fedora community.
- Development cycle. If we wait until too late in the Fedora release
cycle to have a FUDCon, there may not be sufficient time before the release to work on the initiatives set up at the event. However, if the FUDCon concentrates on initiatives *following* the next release this may be less of a problem. In other words, this NA FUDCon is held before the release of Fedora 14, and perhaps could concentrate on what will happen *after* that release.
Balancing these conflicting pressures is always difficult. In Toronto we opted for an early December event, but it was not without tradeoffs. This coming year, December 3-6, January 7-10, or January 14-17 look like they will best meet our needs.
December 3 - 6 is right in the middle of Hanukkah (2nd - 10th this year). We should probably avoid those dates. :)
Holidays are holidays, I agree 100%.
My initial assumption was that December 10-13 was too close to Christmas, although I never stated that assumption.
WIth the January dates, I'd imagine most college students will have their first days back either on the 10th or 18th (17th is MLK day in the US). I'm not sure how this would impact things, but it is something to consider. Also, I don't know if venues / hotels take advantage of the three-day-weekend-for-some-people opportunity over MLK Day and raise pricing for events / lodging / etc (or alternately, lower the pricing) but it might be worth looking into.
So, should we be depending on the bidders to propose one of those two prospective dates, based on facilities available at their site?
On Mon, Feb 08, 2010 at 06:10:23PM -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote:
On Mon, Feb 08, 2010 at 10:47:11AM -0700, Robyn Bergeron wrote:
On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 6:44 AM, Paul Frields stickster@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 7:26 PM, David Nalley david@gnsa.us wrote:
On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 7:00 PM, Paul W. Frields stickster@gmail.com wrote:
In about a month, Red Hat will be operating in its FY 2011. So I think it would behoove us to open up the bid process for the FUDCon for North America immediately. Are there any blockers to doing that right now?
The blockers would be $budget_giving_entity announcing a general amount budgeted. Of course we have a known general amount that we can use in the absence of the above.
Yes, we should be able to assume a round number of $20K as in previous events for argument's sake, so this is a "soft" blocker.
I realized that the bid process document doesn't make it clear that we should already have dates for the event. It won't be easy for bidders to get travel and lodging costs figured out unless they know when travel is taking place.
So first, I recommend that we add some documentation directly to the FUDCon organization page that describes how and when event timing is decided:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_organization_process
Now, having said that... We know the NA FUDCon will take place in Q4, December - February. The key factors are:
- Holidays. The last half of December and the beginning of January are
out because most most North America will be celebrating the season. Also note that holiday vacations may make planning more of a challenge leading up to a January event.
- School sessions. The beginning of December tends to be harder to
schedule free space at most universities and colleges because classes or final exams are in session. We were fortunate that Seneca @York had space available in Toronto during the first weekend in December, but that may not be the case in most places.
- Attendance. Similarly, students have a harder time attending an
early December FUDCon because of classes and exams. For example, Ricky Zhou couldn't attend this year for this exact reason. While we don't want a schedule to hang on just a very small group of people, student attendance at any event can be a big gain for the event, exposing potential new contributors to the Fedora community.
- Development cycle. If we wait until too late in the Fedora release
cycle to have a FUDCon, there may not be sufficient time before the release to work on the initiatives set up at the event. However, if the FUDCon concentrates on initiatives *following* the next release this may be less of a problem. In other words, this NA FUDCon is held before the release of Fedora 14, and perhaps could concentrate on what will happen *after* that release.
Balancing these conflicting pressures is always difficult. In Toronto we opted for an early December event, but it was not without tradeoffs. This coming year, December 3-6, January 7-10, or January 14-17 look like they will best meet our needs.
December 3 - 6 is right in the middle of Hanukkah (2nd - 10th this year). We should probably avoid those dates. :)
Holidays are holidays, I agree 100%.
My initial assumption was that December 10-13 was too close to Christmas, although I never stated that assumption.
WIth the January dates, I'd imagine most college students will have their first days back either on the 10th or 18th (17th is MLK day in the US). I'm not sure how this would impact things, but it is something to consider. Also, I don't know if venues / hotels take advantage of the three-day-weekend-for-some-people opportunity over MLK Day and raise pricing for events / lodging / etc (or alternately, lower the pricing) but it might be worth looking into.
So, should we be depending on the bidders to propose one of those two prospective dates, based on facilities available at their site?
OK, no feedback on this part, so I take that as consent. I'm going to start making some announcements this week to open up our bid process for the FUDCon in NA in FY11 Q4.
On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 09:38:49AM -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote:
On Mon, Feb 08, 2010 at 06:10:23PM -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote:
On Mon, Feb 08, 2010 at 10:47:11AM -0700, Robyn Bergeron wrote:
On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 6:44 AM, Paul Frields stickster@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 7:26 PM, David Nalley david@gnsa.us wrote:
On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 7:00 PM, Paul W. Frields stickster@gmail.com wrote:
In about a month, Red Hat will be operating in its FY 2011. So I think it would behoove us to open up the bid process for the FUDCon for North America immediately. Are there any blockers to doing that right now?
The blockers would be $budget_giving_entity announcing a general amount budgeted. Of course we have a known general amount that we can use in the absence of the above.
Yes, we should be able to assume a round number of $20K as in previous events for argument's sake, so this is a "soft" blocker.
I realized that the bid process document doesn't make it clear that we should already have dates for the event. It won't be easy for bidders to get travel and lodging costs figured out unless they know when travel is taking place.
So first, I recommend that we add some documentation directly to the FUDCon organization page that describes how and when event timing is decided:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_organization_process
Now, having said that... We know the NA FUDCon will take place in Q4, December - February. The key factors are:
- Holidays. The last half of December and the beginning of January are
out because most most North America will be celebrating the season. Also note that holiday vacations may make planning more of a challenge leading up to a January event.
- School sessions. The beginning of December tends to be harder to
schedule free space at most universities and colleges because classes or final exams are in session. We were fortunate that Seneca @York had space available in Toronto during the first weekend in December, but that may not be the case in most places.
- Attendance. Similarly, students have a harder time attending an
early December FUDCon because of classes and exams. For example, Ricky Zhou couldn't attend this year for this exact reason. While we don't want a schedule to hang on just a very small group of people, student attendance at any event can be a big gain for the event, exposing potential new contributors to the Fedora community.
- Development cycle. If we wait until too late in the Fedora release
cycle to have a FUDCon, there may not be sufficient time before the release to work on the initiatives set up at the event. However, if the FUDCon concentrates on initiatives *following* the next release this may be less of a problem. In other words, this NA FUDCon is held before the release of Fedora 14, and perhaps could concentrate on what will happen *after* that release.
Balancing these conflicting pressures is always difficult. In Toronto we opted for an early December event, but it was not without tradeoffs. This coming year, December 3-6, January 7-10, or January 14-17 look like they will best meet our needs.
December 3 - 6 is right in the middle of Hanukkah (2nd - 10th this year). We should probably avoid those dates. :)
Holidays are holidays, I agree 100%.
My initial assumption was that December 10-13 was too close to Christmas, although I never stated that assumption.
WIth the January dates, I'd imagine most college students will have their first days back either on the 10th or 18th (17th is MLK day in the US). I'm not sure how this would impact things, but it is something to consider. Also, I don't know if venues / hotels take advantage of the three-day-weekend-for-some-people opportunity over MLK Day and raise pricing for events / lodging / etc (or alternately, lower the pricing) but it might be worth looking into.
So, should we be depending on the bidders to propose one of those two prospective dates, based on facilities available at their site?
OK, no feedback on this part, so I take that as consent. I'm going to start making some announcements this week to open up our bid process for the FUDCon in NA in FY11 Q4.
Obviously this didn't happen and I apologize. :-)
Thank you for bubbling this up Mel -- I'll draft an announcement on the wiki so we can add it to SOP and then send it out for NA bids.
Also, I found out that our [[FUDCon organization process]] page has no indication of who's responsible for sending out these bid notices. I'm fine with it being the FPL, so I'm making that change now and it's open to editing if anyone has a better idea. :-)
So first, I recommend that we add some documentation directly to the FUDCon organization page that describes how and when event timing is decided:
Done. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon has a https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon#Upcoming_FUDCons section, which links to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Premier_Fedora_Events, one section of which is https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Premier_Fedora_Events#Recurring_Premier_Fedor....
--Mel
On Tue, Feb 09, 2010 at 02:43:38AM -0500, Mel Chua wrote:
So first, I recommend that we add some documentation directly to the FUDCon organization page that describes how and when event timing is decided:
Done. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon has a https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon#Upcoming_FUDCons section, which links to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Premier_Fedora_Events, one section of which is https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Premier_Fedora_Events#Recurring_Premier_Fedor....
And now:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_bid_opening_announcement
Please edit or +1 here.
The message is meant to go to devel-announce@, announce@, ambassadors@, marketing@, and this list. I will send by Monday.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_bid_opening_announcement
Please edit or +1 here.
+1. Are there any examples of good bids from the past (or documents that would have gone into a bid, since we've never really done a bidding process)? Or even example bids from other events (non-Fedora ones, just for a first round until we have our own good examples)?
--Mel
Hi all.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_bid_opening_announcement
Please edit or +1 here.
+1. Are there any examples of good bids from the past (or documents that would have gone into a bid, since we've never really done a bidding process)? Or even example bids from other events (non-Fedora ones, just for a first round until we have our own good examples)?
We have already set up a page containing the required information for FUDCon EMEA 2010. From our pov. there are still some things unclear. First of all: Who is going to take the decision? Is it the community, the board, the FPL or someone else?
As (at least for FUDCon EMEA 2010) we are quite late, a decision should be taken soon :)
Best Regards Marcus
On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 2:40 AM, Marcus Moeller mail@marcus-moeller.de wrote:
Hi all.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_bid_opening_announcement
Please edit or +1 here.
+1. Are there any examples of good bids from the past (or documents that would have gone into a bid, since we've never really done a bidding process)? Or even example bids from other events (non-Fedora ones, just for a first round until we have our own good examples)?
We have already set up a page containing the required information for FUDCon EMEA 2010. From our pov. there are still some things unclear. First of all: Who is going to take the decision? Is it the community, the board, the FPL or someone else?
As (at least for FUDCon EMEA 2010) we are quite late, a decision should be taken soon :)
According to the bid process: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_bid_process
...regional Ambassador leadership is supposed to do a first pass on the bids to make sure it contains answers to their questions. The decision comes from the majority budget sponsors -- in other words, the people who are paying for the event to happen have to decide where to spend the money. In this case that would be the Community Architecture team, I'm assuming, so I'll get with Max to come to a decision here.
I think it would be helpful for us in the future to have bids on separate pages. Right now we have everything on one page, http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_and_FAD_locations , and it's hard to tell which of the cities listed are serious bids and which are ideas that were just mentioned in passing some time ago. Just a logistics issue; I'll do some work to make the wiki sensible for future bid processes.
Paul
On 03/05/2010 01:25 PM, Paul Frields wrote:
In this case that would be the Community Architecture team, I'm assuming, so I'll get with Max to come to a decision here.
+1
Max didn't add anything to this topic on this list so far which is really disappointing as he promised me to get this going when I talked to him during FOSDEM in Brussels in early February.
Just a logistics issue; I'll do some work to make the wiki sensible for future bid processes.
+1
Particularly it's important to separate FUDCon bids from possible FAD locations as it's pretty hard to state the different options for FUDcon and FAD in the same city.
-- Sandro
On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 3:15 PM, Paul W. Frields stickster@gmail.com wrote:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_bid_opening_announcement
+1, I changed it to actually have a link to Events FAD at the end, easy to copy and paste.
fudcon-planning@lists.fedoraproject.org
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Chris Tyler -
David Nalley -
Jon Stanley -
Marcus Moeller -
Mel Chua -
Paul W. Frields -
Robyn Bergeron -
Sandro "red" Mathys