Re: Running Mailman on big FOSS projects - Mozilla

[Stephen John Smoogen]

On 17 December 2012 17:54, Michael Burns <burnsie(a)mozilla.com&gt; wrote:
>  Hi,
>
>  I help run the Mailman / {mail,lists}.mozilla.org forum at Mozilla and am curious if you
> (whomever maintains lists.fedoraproject.org) would be interested in a chat about Mailman
> and HyperKitty?
>
>  You're one of the few Mailman users that have a similar workload to worry about, so
> I'm curious how you've got things setup. 
Hi what would you want to talk about and what about?

>  Cheers!
>
>  --
>  Michael Burns
>  Mozilla IT
>  


-- 
Stephen J Smoogen.
"Don't derail a useful feature for the 99% because you're not in it."
Linus Torvalds
"Years ago my mother used to say to me,... Elwood, you must be oh
so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I
recommend pleasant. You may quote me."  —James Stewart as Elwood P. Dowd

Running Mailman on big FOSS projects - Mozilla

[Michael Burns]

Oh hello there Infrastructure@,

[resending this, got stock in moderation, ironically]

I'm curious in both the operations side of your Mailman setup as it exists today as
well as what the (general) plans for Mailman as a basis for your Forums are in the future.
So how about I just throw some questions at the list and see what sticks?

HyperKitty[0] is a really interesting Fedora project, are there plans to bring that to
lists.fp.o in the foreseeable future? To that end, has there been any serious attempts at
migrating lists.fp.o to Mailman v3 from v2? I am starting to look at that process in
detail, and am hoping for some tips or warnings. :)

Having said that, Mailman 3 has some very interesting possibilities, particularly with
something like HyperKitty running on top. The mockups[2] for what it could end up like are
pretty neat, but it isn't clear what pieces are missing in between. It would be really
great if we can iron out a plan to get our two project's goals for a better discussion
forum system a bit closer to reality.

As for the ops side... do you use stock Mailman rpms, or are the patchesets that you use
available for comparison? Likewise, could your puppet module(s) for mailman (similar to
[1]?) be made available, even with identifying information removed? I signed the Fedora
CLA way back when, for what it is worth. Mozilla is in the process of auditing our puppet
modules for an eventual public release, so I realize this can be a tricky topic with
regards to security. Doesn't hurt to ask though, right?

Cheers!

[0] https://fedorahosted.org/hyperkitty/
[1] https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/1584
[2] http://blog.linuxgrrl.com/2012/03/13/mailman-brainstorm/


-- 
Michael Burns
Mozilla IT

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen John Smoogen" <smooge(a)gmail.com&gt;
To: "Michael Burns" <burnsie(a)mozilla.com&gt;
Cc: "Fedora Infrastructure" <infrastructure(a)lists.fedoraproject.org&gt;
Sent: Monday, December 17, 2012 4:59:30 PM
Subject: Re: Running Mailman on big FOSS projects - Mozilla

On 17 December 2012 17:54, Michael Burns <burnsie(a)mozilla.com&gt; wrote:
>  Hi,
>
>  I help run the Mailman / {mail,lists}.mozilla.org forum at Mozilla and am curious if you
> (whomever maintains lists.fedoraproject.org) would be interested in a chat about Mailman
> and HyperKitty?
>
>  You're one of the few Mailman users that have a similar workload to worry about, so
> I'm curious how you've got things setup. 
Hi what would you want to talk about and what about?

>  Cheers!
>
>  --
>  Michael Burns
>  Mozilla IT
>  


-- 
Stephen J Smoogen.
"Don't derail a useful feature for the 99% because you're not in it."
Linus Torvalds
"Years ago my mother used to say to me,... Elwood, you must be oh
so smart or oh so pleasant. Well, for years I was smart. I
recommend pleasant. You may quote me."  —James Stewart as Elwood P. Dowd

Running Mailman on big FOSS projects - Mozilla

[Kevin Fenzi]

On Tue, 18 Dec 2012 14:59:57 -0800 (PST)
Michael Burns <burnsie(a)mozilla.com&gt; wrote:

>  Oh hello there Infrastructure@,
>  
>  [resending this, got stock in moderation, ironically] 
:) I do moderate the list every day, but in the mornings. 

>  I'm curious in both the operations side of your Mailman setup as
> it
>  exists today as well as what the (general) plans for Mailman as a
>  basis for your Forums are in the future. So how about I just throw
>  some questions at the list and see what sticks? 
Sounds great. Ask away!

>  HyperKitty[0] is a really interesting Fedora project, are there
> plans
>  to bring that to lists.fp.o in the foreseeable future? To that end,
>  has there been any serious attempts at migrating lists.fp.o to
>  Mailman v3 from v2? I am starting to look at that process in detail,
>  and am hoping for some tips or warnings. :) 
There has not yet been, but I predict we will be moving that way next
year pretty heavily. 

Ideally, we would see some good packages for mailman3, then look at
perhaps setting up a duplicate set of mailman servers that we can
duplicate the setup on, etc. 

>  Having said that, Mailman 3 has some very interesting possibilities,
>  particularly with something like HyperKitty running on top. The
>  mockups[2] for what it could end up like are pretty neat, but it
>  isn't clear what pieces are missing in between. It would be really
>  great if we can iron out a plan to get our two project's goals for a
>  better discussion forum system a bit closer to reality. 
Sure. I hope Aurélien will chime in here and we can discuss that part
of things more. 

>  As for the ops side... do you use stock Mailman rpms, or are the
>  patchesets that you use available for comparison?  
We are using the stock rhel6 ones with some hotfixes on top (mostly to
disable the stupid mailman password handling, which happily goes away
under 3). 

>  Likewise, could
>  your puppet module(s) for mailman (similar to [1]?) be made
>  available, even with identifying information removed? I signed the
>  Fedora CLA way back when, for what it is worth. Mozilla is in the
>  process of auditing our puppet modules for an eventual public
>  release, so I realize this can be a tricky topic with regards to
>  security. Doesn't hurt to ask though, right? 
Sure, we should be able to audit that small set of stuff and figure out
some way to get it to you. It's not too much I don't think, 

kevin

Running Mailman on big FOSS projects - Mozilla

[Aurelien Bompard]

>  Having said that, Mailman 3 has some very interesting possibilities,
>  particularly with something like HyperKitty running on top. The
>  mockups[2] for what it could end up like are pretty neat, but it
>  isn't clear what pieces are missing in between. It would be really
>  great if we can iron out a plan to get our two project's goals for a
>  better discussion forum system a bit closer to reality. 
I'm trying to bring the mockups to life. We have a test instance running
on [1] if you want to have a look at the current development. The
"devel@mm3test" list [2] should be a live mirror of our Fedora devel
mailing-list, barring some lockups I'm having with mailman3 itself, and
currently trying to debug.

[1] http://mm3test.fedoraproject.org/hyperkitty/
[2]
http://mm3test.fedoraproject.org/hyperkitty/list/[e-mail]...

The main missing feature is the possibility to post from the web
interface. First I'd like to make sure it's a solid and usable
replacement for the old mailman 2 archiver, and then I'll add the major
new features.

There's a lot of "I"s but of course it's a collaborative project. We
have a mailing list at [3], feel free to join, especially if you also
have a project for a better discussion forum system. Your input would be
very appreciated.

[3] https://lists.fedorahosted.org/mailman/listinfo/hyperkitty-devel

However I'll probably be a rather unresponsive in the next week, since
I'll be on vacation with my family. Go ahead and post nonetheless, the
others will respond.

Cheers !
Aurélien