--- Log opened Thu Jan 21 00:00:09 2010
00:01 < jjmcd> #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting 2010-01-21
00:01 < zodbot> Meeting started Thu Jan 21 00:01:45 2010 UTC. The chair is jjmcd.
Information about MeetBot at
http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
00:01 < zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
00:01 -!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: (Meeting topic: Docs Project
Meeting 2010-01-21)
00:01 -!- rudi [n=rlandman@nat/redhat/x-dzspknwnyjmvolra] has joined #fedora-meeting
00:01 < jjmcd> #topic roll call
00:01 -!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: roll call (Meeting topic: Docs
Project Meeting 2010-01-21)
00:01 * jjmcd .
00:01 * quaid
00:01 * rudi is here but not with 100% attention...
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00:02 < jjmcd> Sorry if a little disorganized. I only found out sparks was AWOL a
couple minutes ago
00:02 -!- laubersm [n=Susan@fedora/laubersm] has joined #fedora-meeting
00:03 < jjmcd> #topic F13 Release Schedule
00:03 -!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: F13 Release Schedule (Meeting
topic: Docs Project Meeting 2010-01-21)
00:03 * laubersm stands in the back
00:03 < jjmcd> #link
http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-13/f-13-docs-and-trans-tasks...
00:03 < jjmcd> Don't be hiding laubersm
00:03 < jjmcd> ANyone have any comments, difficulties etc with the F13 schedule?
00:04 < jjmcd> I was unable to find my notes for John and haven't had time to
recreate them, but they weren't biggies anyway
00:05 < quaid> for the last release, were there any miscommunications
00:05 < quaid> or disconnects?
00:05 < jjmcd> Yes
00:05 < jjmcd> quite a few
00:05 < jjmcd> I think most got addressed in the new schedule
00:05 < quaid> do we need to get an actual affirmative from people about the
schedule?
00:05 < quaid> "Put your name on this wiki page" or mark a checkbox or
something?
00:06 < jjmcd> That might be worthwhile, although I suspect ianweller, danielsmw,
ke4qqq and othere may or may not be here
00:06 < jjmcd> But there is a good idea quaid
00:06 < jjmcd> #action jjmcd will put up a wiki page for each of the content owners
to agree to the schedule
00:07 < jjmcd> Everyone OK with that?
00:07 < laubersm> I think the larger communication issues were with other groups
though... like releng needing the rpm before we were scheduled to build it..
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00:07 < laubersm> I'm good with the sched (as much as I have looked) and good
with a wiki to get the people really involved to sign off
00:07 < jjmcd> Well, yeah. That was a biggie, and you better believe this time i
triple checked
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00:08 < jjmcd> And we will have some surprises this time since we are handling the
L10N interface differently
00:08 < jjmcd> OK, anything else on the schedule?
00:09 < jjmcd> Moving on
00:09 < jjmcd> #topic Desktop Help Summit
00:09 -!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Desktop Help Summit (Meeting
topic: Docs Project Meeting 2010-01-21)
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00:10 < jjmcd> #link
http://live.gnome.org/DesktopHelpSummit2010
00:10 < jjmcd> OK, it looks as if sparks might not be able to go
00:10 < laubersm> too far out on the schedule for me to say if I can be there. But
it is not out of the question.
00:10 < jjmcd> laubersm, any news on whether you will make it?
00:10 < jjmcd> OK
00:10 < jjmcd> Is anyone else thinking about it?
00:10 < laubersm> Still even a possibilty I can get RH schedule me to teach up there
before or after (thus covering plane at the same time)
00:11 < jjmcd> That would be a perfect scenario
00:11 < laubersm> They won't have the schedule together for a while (working on
the first 2 weeks of Feb today)
00:11 < jjmcd> Right now I think I am the only for sure going, and we really should
have two or three of us
00:12 < jjmcd> I told Max in a perfect world, rudi would be there but he didn't
bite
00:12 < laubersm> :)
00:12 < rudi> lolz thanks anyway :)
00:12 < jjmcd> Well, especially without sparks it would be really good, but it is
kind of a hike
00:13 < jjmcd> Anything else on the summit?
00:13 < jjmcd> Oh, I started to mention, Max did indicate he can make some funding
available
00:14 < jjmcd> And we really should have more representation than me if Susan
can't make it
00:15 < jjmcd> OK, moving on
00:15 < jjmcd> #topic Release Notes
00:15 -!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Release Notes (Meeting topic:
Docs Project Meeting 2010-01-21)
00:15 < jjmcd> This one is quick. I did post a new updated test RPM if anyone wants
to test
00:16 < jjmcd> I don't have the link right here but I did send it to the list
00:16 * quaid has to move networks (head home), bbi7m
00:16 < jjmcd> Paul made a good catch on the first one, but other than that
00:16 < jjmcd> Thanks quaid
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00:17 < jjmcd> Any questions, updates, comments, concerns about release notes?
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00:17 < jjmcd> #topic Status on CMS (Zikula)
00:17 -!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Status on CMS (Zikula) (Meeting
topic: Docs Project Meeting 2010-01-21)
00:17 < jjmcd> #link
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zikula#Module_status
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00:18 < jjmcd> I'm not so sure we have any of the usual suspects here
00:18 < jjmcd> Any reports on Zikula?
00:19 < jjmcd> I guess not
00:19 < jjmcd> so
00:19 < jjmcd> #topic Guide Status
00:19 -!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Guide Status (Meeting topic:
Docs Project Meeting 2010-01-21)
00:20 < jjmcd> rudi, any comments/updates on the guides?
00:20 < rudi> jjmcd -- nothing this week
00:20 < jjmcd> OK, anyone else on guides?
00:21 < jjmcd> #topic New Guides
00:21 -!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: New Guides (Meeting topic: Docs
Project Meeting 2010-01-21)
00:21 < jjmcd> Anyone starting new guides?
00:22 < jjmcd> #topic All other business
00:22 -!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: All other business (Meeting
topic: Docs Project Meeting 2010-01-21)
00:22 < radsy>
http://docs.fedoraproject.org/selinux-faq/ i'm updating that
00:22 < jjmcd> OK, here I do have something
00:23 < jjmcd> It looks as if sparks may be scarce for a little while here, I
don't have any data on how long at this point, so if you see a leadership vacuum
please don't be shy about stepping up
00:24 < jjmcd> Of course, under normal circumstances there is no need to be timid,
but for now try to get over your timidity please
00:25 < jjmcd> Ahh, rasdy, sorry I middes that
00:25 < jjmcd> How are you coming? Need anything?
00:25 < radsy> nope, going fine - waiting for the next sync on that page, and adding
a lot from dwalsh@
00:26 < jjmcd> good deal
00:26 < jjmcd> I still need to do some recruiting for the ARG
00:26 < radsy> was considerably out-dated
00:27 < jjmcd> hehe - that is something that needs not only documentation, but also
marketing
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00:28 < radsy> i also had a couple of EOI for adding to the wireless-guide, but no
email responses or IRC arrivals :(
00:28 < jjmcd> ahh
00:28 < jjmcd> I think a lot of people imagine that they aren't 31337 enough or
something
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00:29 < radsy> nothing else from me at this point
00:29 < jjmcd> Is there anything else for the good of the order?
00:30 < jjmcd> If you're thinking about going to Chicago, think harder!
00:30 < jjmcd> last call
00:31 < jjmcd> 9
00:31 < jjmcd> 8
00:31 < jjmcd> 7
00:31 < jjmcd> 6
00:31 < jjmcd> 5
00:31 < laubersm> 12
00:31 < laubersm> 42
00:31 < laubersm> hut
00:31 < jjmcd> 432
00:31 < jjmcd> #endmeeting
00:31 -!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Channel is used by various
Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get
logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting_channel for meeting schedule
00:31 < zodbot> Meeting ended Thu Jan 21 00:32:19 2010 UTC. Information about
MeetBot at
http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot .
00:31 < zodbot> Minutes:
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2010-01-21/fedora-meeting...
00:31 < zodbot> Minutes (text):
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2010-01-21/fedora-meeting...
00:31 < laubersm> thanks jjmcd
00:31 < zodbot> Log:
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2010-01-21/fedora-meeting...
00:31 < jjmcd> thanks everyone
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16:30 < nirik> #startmeeting IRC Support SIG (2010-01-21)
16:30 < zodbot> Meeting started Thu Jan 21 16:30:45 2010 UTC. The chair is nirik.
Information about MeetBot at
http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:30 < zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:30 -!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: (Meeting topic: IRC Support SIG
(2010-01-21))
16:30 < nirik> #meetingname irc-support-sig
16:30 < nirik> #topic init process
16:30 < zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'irc-support-sig'
16:30 -!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: init process (Meeting topic: IRC
Support SIG (2010-01-21))
16:30 -!- hiemanshu [n=hiemansh@fedora/hiemanshu] has joined #fedora-meeting
16:30 < nirik> who all is around for meeting?
16:30 * hiemanshu
16:30 * EvilBob
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16:32 * nirik will wait a minute or two more for folks to wander in.
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16:34 < nirik> ok, I guess we should go ahead and get starteed.
16:34 < nirik> started even.
16:34 < nirik> #topic registration and spam
16:35 -!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: registration and spam (Meeting
topic: IRC Support SIG (2010-01-21))
16:35 < nirik> so, the big news this last week has been the spammers/floodbots on
freenode.
16:35 * thomasj here
16:35 < nirik> we have setup a redirect for any unregistered user to
#fedora-unregistered
16:35 < nirik> along with a number of ways to tell people there that they should
register.
16:36 < nirik> The thought was that we keep this setup until the freenode ircd move
and try going back to the old setup then.
16:36 < nirik> any thoughts on things we should change now or other ideas moving
ahead?
16:36 < EvilBob> I am not aware of the changes the newbring IRCd will
16:37 < EvilBob> I am not aware of the changes the new IRCd will bring
16:37 < nirik> I have heard from a number of staffers that the new ircd should help
block floodbots like we were seeing this last week.
16:37 < nirik> but I have no details on how it would.
16:37 < EvilBob> This is working, keeping some of the part/join noise down even
16:38 < nirik> from the freenode blog: "This new ircd provides a number of
exciting new capabilities including improved capability to deal with spam of all kinds,
including this most recent type which is entirely mitigated by improvements in
seven"
16:38 < fenris02> the existint ircd is quite hackable
16:38 < thomasj> Works very well. Not just the spam bots are out, even most of the
trolls.
16:38 < fenris02> also provides ircs
16:38 < EvilBob> The users "stuck" in -unregistered are not participants
in the channel anyhow
16:38 < thomasj> Speaking of #fedora now
16:39 < nirik> yeah, it's caught a few of those for sure.
16:39 < fenris02> very few trolls remain in #fedora after +rR
16:39 < EvilBob> again with the +rR
16:39 < hiemanshu> I think the current setup is good, and probably even continue
after the new IRCd
16:39 * fenris02 guesses that the number of kbans has gone down considerably since
16:40 < nirik> we don't have +R set. ;)
16:40 < nirik> but yeah...
16:40 < thomasj> No kick/ban from my side since we changed it.
16:40 < EvilBob> The current policy is different than the old policy
16:40 < nirik> so, sounds like folks are wanting to keep the current setup moving
forward?
16:40 < thomasj> +1
16:40 < hiemanshu> +1
16:41 < Dan_NH> +1
16:41 < fenris02> EvilBob, what was the old policy?
16:41 < fenris02> +1 nirik
16:41 < EvilBob> the current sends unregistered users to a channel where
communication is not prevented
16:41 * fenris02 nods
16:41 < EvilBob> the old policy sent them in to a muted channel
16:41 < EvilBob> +1 keep the current
16:41 < nirik> well, not sure we need to decide right now...
16:42 < fenris02> EvilBob, did the old policy work better, worse, or about the same
as the current one?
16:42 * Dan_NH can see benefit of old policy.
16:42 < EvilBob> fenris02: does not matter it is not allowed
16:43 < nirik> EvilBob: ?
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16:43 < fenris02> EvilBob, oic. i'd asked about doing that a bit earlier
16:43 < EvilBob> fenris02: ;^) this is by far better
16:43 < EvilBob> fenris02: sending unknowing/uneducated users in to a block hole
really sucked
16:44 < fenris02> ok, fair enough
16:44 < EvilBob> fenris02: with -unregistered not muted they can at least ask for
help registering
16:44 < nirik> I think if we are going to go this long term we need: board buyin,
and docs updated (to note about registering, etc).
16:45 < EvilBob> see "the board" when reading my "not allowed"
comment
16:45 < thomasj> What docs need updating?
16:45 < nirik> thomasj: the communicate ones on the wiki most likely?
16:45 < nirik> and/or any of the install/release notes that talk about where to get
help
16:46 < fenris02> the irc page on fp.o already mentions registering. that's how
i knew. it does need updates - but only to add the newer channels (-uk, 398, freeipa,
etc..)
16:46 < thomasj> nirik, good point
16:46 < nirik> EvilBob: sure, but I think we can get buyin if we approach with clear
advantages, etc.
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16:46 < nb> is anyone in #fedora-unregistered to help people register?
16:46 < EvilBob> nb: yes
16:46 < nirik> nb: yep. A number of us ops are.
16:46 < EvilBob> nb: most of the ops hang out there
16:46 < nb> oh ok
16:46 * nb will idle in there too
16:47 < nirik> we also have: a welcome message with a link, a topic with a link, a
bot that spews every 15min with a note/link.
16:47 < nb> nice
16:47 < nirik> I think since freenode is now not +R, we could also point folks there
to help get registered.
16:47 < EvilBob> nirik: I think we are doing everything "right" this time
16:47 < nirik> if we can't figure it out.
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16:48 < nirik> yeah, I think it's working not too bad...
16:48 * EvilBob waits for the next item
16:48 < nirik> anything further on this topic? or shall we move along?
16:48 < nirik> #topic Stats
16:48 -!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Stats (Meeting topic: IRC
Support SIG (2010-01-21))
16:49 < nirik> weekly stats over at
http://fedora.theglaserfamily.org/ircstats/fedora-weekly.html as usual.
16:49 < fenris02> woot! not #1 for a change!
16:49 < nirik> been a lighter than normal week I think...
16:49 < nirik> yikes. I am.
16:50 < EvilBob> Looks like a few kicks, not a list of bans?
16:50 < nirik> sadly, one of the spammer links is in there. ;(
16:51 < nirik> (please don't click on it :)
16:51 < hiemanshu> at the top
16:51 < fenris02> 94x sheesh
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16:51 < hiemanshu> I am sure imageshack does not have 527 img servers
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16:51 < fenris02> the host looks down anyhow
16:51 -!- MooDoo [n=paulmell@fedora/MooDoo] has joined #fedora-meeting
16:51 < EvilBob> In -social we had no kicks and one ban
16:51 < nirik> EvilBob: I think the second part talking about kicks was really
bans.
16:52 -!- nullsys [n=nullsys(a)cpc1-birk7-2-0-cust111.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined
#fedora-meeting
16:52 < EvilBob> user posted a link to a porn banners site
16:52 < nirik> but I can only think of one ban in fedora recently.
16:52 * Southern_Gentlem
16:52 < EvilBob> I set a 1 weekban using the bot so it should autoexpire
16:52 < nirik> ok, anything further on stats? Perhaps we could ask to get stats on
unregistered as well...
16:53 < nirik> EvilBob: you may need to check that, the bot might have been
restarted since then... and it forgets it's timer then. ;(
16:53 < fenris02> EvilBob, unless the bot restarts somewhere between when you set
+1w and 1w later.
16:53 < EvilBob> THe Sonars are out of town on Family business
16:53 * nirik restarted the bot on the 18th.
16:53 < EvilBob> nirik fenris02: I have a note here somewhere
16:53 -!- fab_ is now known as fab
16:53 < nirik> ok, anything else on stats?
16:54 < EvilBob> if I never find it or forget it will get cleaned up someday
16:54 < nirik> #topic Open Floor
16:54 -!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Open Floor (Meeting topic: IRC
Support SIG (2010-01-21))
16:55 < nirik> ok, I had nothing else off hand... anyone have any items for open
floor?
16:55 < fenris02> the new -uk channel
16:55 < nullsys> :)
16:55 < Southern_Gentlem> nirik, fedbot in -uk??
16:55 < Southern_Gentlem> nirik, fedbot in -uk??
16:55 < nirik> ah yes, there is a new #fedora-uk channel starting up.
16:55 < EvilBob> the point of -uk?
16:55 < nb> do we want zodbot in therE?
16:55 * nb can join it
16:55 < nullsys> My and MooDoo set it up
16:55 -!- slipp3d [n=Slip(a)cmg-2-254.r15.mtwgln.infoave.net] has joined #fedora-meeting
16:55 < nirik> nullsys: care to talk about the channel a bit?
16:56 < nirik> #topic #fedora-uk
16:56 -!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: #fedora-uk (Meeting topic: IRC
Support SIG (2010-01-21))
16:56 < nullsys> Sure
16:56 < nb> .join #fedora-uk
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16:56 < MooDoo> nirik: it's just a channel i thought we'd setup for uk
users.
16:56 < EvilBob> Most #fedora-XX channels are for specific language support
16:56 < MooDoo> nothing special but it seems the people of the uk did want somewhere
to go other than #fedora
16:56 < EvilBob> Last I checked those in the UK used English...
16:56 < Southern_Gentlem> basic to help organize UK people
16:56 < fenris02> MooDoo, purely out of curiosity - what reasons to they mention ?
16:57 < nirik> EvilBob: if we see someone type 'colour' we can send them
there?
16:57 < nullsys> Myself and MooDoo are UK ambassadors. After I joined the ambassador
group we had a discussion about the lack of response Fedora is seeing in the UK. So after
speaking to rsc and a few other ambasadors we felt it would be a great idea to start a
specific UK group were events, ideas and discussions could acumulate to a positive Fedora
community for the UK
16:57 < EvilBob> nirik: or #fedora-Kanehdah
16:57 < nullsys> The positive response from the past 48 hours of it being active has
been impressive.
16:57 < nirik> EvilBob: take off eh.
16:57 < Southern_Gentlem> ok guys the roads are getting bad so i am heading for the
house
16:57 < MooDoo> fenris02: the ones i've spoken to, too busy, hard to get
yourself heard, the odd one mentioned unhelpfulness [although i've experienced that]
16:57 < EvilBob> Southern_Gentlem: be safe
16:57 < nirik> Southern_Gentlem: drive safe.
16:58 < MooDoo> Southern_Gentlem: bye bye
16:58 < nullsys> Coupled with the website
fedora-uk.org we have had new ambassador
requests, new members, new irc users, new offers for freemedia distrobution and alot of
requests to help with events and support
16:58 < fenris02> Southern_Gentlem, have a safe trip
16:58 < nirik> MooDoo: excellent. So we should point community folks that we notice
that are in the uk your way?
16:58 < nullsys> THere is a specific mailing list, planet.* and hopefully a
wiki/forum soon.
16:58 < fenris02> MooDoo, unhelpfulness = reading docs, or rudeness?
16:58 -!- stickster [n=nnnnpfri@fedora/stickster] has quit "Terminated with extreme
prejudice - dircproxy 1.2.0"
16:58 < EvilBob> Building Community is a great reason for the channel
16:58 < MooDoo> fenris02: rudeness
16:58 < fenris02> the fp.o page should mention -uk as well imho
16:59 < EvilBob> MooDoo: I resemble that remark
16:59 < nirik> yeah, can get it added there.
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16:59 < nullsys> Thanks fenris02, that would be a great positive help to do that.
16:59 < nullsys> I have a blog on blogs.* and the room is also mentioned in two
other places on the wiki
17:00 < EvilBob> Many people find someone pointing them to a document rude
17:00 < nullsys> spot is of course the owner of the channel, but we have also had
help from VileGent, nirik and others. So I also just wanted to say thank you to everyone
who has helped so far.
17:00 < fenris02> EvilBob, thats why i had to ask, to make exactly that distinction
17:00 < EvilBob> I have experienced this reaction from many including those from the
UK
17:00 < nirik> excellent. If you guys need any further help, let us know!
17:00 < nullsys> will do, dont you worry ;)
17:00 < nirik> anything further on #fedora-uk ?
17:01 < MooDoo> nothing i can think of, approval would be good ;)
17:01 < EvilBob> Send those that need help to #fedora, send a chaperon if needed
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"Leaving"
17:01 < MooDoo> EvilBob: that's what we'd do anyway
17:01 < nullsys> Absolutely, we dont want to be an alternative for fedora channels,
just somewhere specific for uk users.
17:01 < fenris02> anytime you have 500+ people, there will be some rude apples
17:02 < nullsys> thanks for letting us talk :)
17:02 < nirik> #topic Open Floor Redux
17:02 -!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Open Floor Redux (Meeting topic:
IRC Support SIG (2010-01-21))
17:02 < nirik> ok, anything further before we close out?
17:02 < Dan_NH> thank you for having this meeting in the open.
17:03 < nullsys> I'd just like to say thanks to everyone for welcoming me to the
community, im very new here but the support has been great.
17:03 < EvilBob> Just request to continue to be tolerant of others perhaps being
more relaxed than you are or might expect
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17:04 < nirik> Dan_NH: no problem. Thanks for coming. We really want more feedback
from the community if we can get it...
17:04 < nirik> EvilBob: +1
17:04 < EvilBob> Just because someone likes to joke a bit does not mean that they
should be "removed"
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17:05 < EvilBob> Hope we have another Great week
17:05 < MooDoo> what about requesting ops for a channel?
17:05 < fenris02> that's a thin line EvilBob ... if the joke involves steering
someone to breaking their system, it is not funny
17:05 < EvilBob> Oh and welcome hiemanshu
17:05 < hiemanshu> Thank you EvilBob :)
17:05 < fenris02> oh, we didnt welcome hiemanshu last week? my bad
17:05 < nirik> MooDoo: which channel?
17:05 < MooDoo> #fedora-ambassadors
17:05 < nirik> oh yeah, welcome hiemanshu
17:06 < nirik> MooDoo: you would have to talk to spot about that...
17:06 < EvilBob> fenris02: setting the default runlevel to 6 is not breaking a
system and is VERY funny... ;^)
17:06 < EvilBob> NOTE: Dont do this
17:06 < hiemanshu> EvilBob: +1
17:06 < MooDoo> nirik: ok thanks
17:06 < hiemanshu> nirik, fenris02 : Thank you :)
17:06 < nirik> thanks for coming everyone!
17:06 < EvilBob> Buhbye
17:06 < nirik> #endmeeting
17:06 -!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Channel is used by various
Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get
logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting_channel for meeting schedule
17:06 < zodbot> Meeting ended Thu Jan 21 17:07:21 2010 UTC. Information about
MeetBot at
http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot .
17:06 < zodbot> Minutes:
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2010-01-21/irc-support-si...
17:06 < zodbot> Minutes (text):
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2010-01-21/irc-support-si...
17:06 < zodbot> Log:
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2010-01-21/irc-support-si...
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17:07 < hiemanshu> No one spoke bacon this week :P
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17:07 < Dan_NH> pork? :P
17:07 < nirik> hiemanshu: thats pretty shocking.
17:07 < hiemanshu> nirik: probably because the Sonar_* were missing :)
17:08 * nullsys runs off into the caverns of cheerio breakfast cereal...
17:08 < nullsys> thanks all
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19:59 < mmcgrath> #startmeeting
19:59 < zodbot> Meeting started Thu Jan 21 20:00:08 2010 UTC. The chair is
mmcgrath. Information about MeetBot at
http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:59 < zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
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19:59 * ricky
19:59 < mmcgrath> #topic Who's here?
19:59 -!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Who's here?
19:59 * ricky
19:59 * jds2001
19:59 < jaxjax> Hi
19:59 * wzzrd
20:00 < abadger1999> Here.
20:00 * nirik is lingering in the back
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20:00 < nullsys> Here
20:00 * sijis is here
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20:00 < jaxjax> I'm newby here
20:00 * a-k is
20:00 < mmcgrath> Lets see if we can get through the meeting without taking the wiki
down or losing a chunk of one of our production switches.
20:00 < mmcgrath> OK, lets get started
20:01 < mmcgrath> #topic Infrastructure -- Tickets
20:01 -!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Infrastructure -- Tickets
20:01 * sijis is wondering how a meeting can take down the wiki
20:01 < mmcgrath> sijis: ehh, we lost the wiki twice last night for seemingly very
strange reasons.
20:01 < mmcgrath> .tiny
https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/query?status=new&statu...
20:01 < zodbot> mmcgrath:
http://tinyurl.com/47e37y
20:01 < mmcgrath> hey look, no tickets.
20:01 < mmcgrath> that makes this easy.
20:01 < mmcgrath> #topic
boot.fedoraproject.org
20:01 -!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to:
boot.fedoraproject.org
20:01 < jaxjax> :)
20:02 < mmcgrath> So this is kind of an odd topic since we don't really deal
directly with the OS all that often.
20:02 < mmcgrath> but -
http://boot.fedoraproject.org/
20:02 -!- brothers [n=brothers(a)66-234-58-254.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined
#fedora-meeting
20:02 < mmcgrath> is unofficially online.
20:02 < mmcgrath> I'd appreciate it if people with abilities can give it a try.
20:02 < mmcgrath> there's experimental stuff on there that flat out doesn't
work
20:02 -!- giallu [n=giallu@fedora/giallu] has joined #fedora-meeting
20:02 < mmcgrath> but install and rescue bits should
20:03 < mmcgrath> Has anyone had a chance to play with it yet?
20:03 < abadger1999> Anyway to generate a list of what's hosted
semi-automatically?
20:03 < mmcgrath> abadger1999: on fedorahosted?
20:03 < abadger1999> On boot.fp.o
20:03 < abadger1999> The images we can boot.
20:04 < mmcgrath> abadger1999: ah, I'll try to get one together, at the moment
just install media. I'm hoping to get live media going though
20:04 < wzzrd> mmcgrath: boot is wicked; anything specific you want tested?
20:04 < mmcgrath> wzzrd: just it, over and over and over.
20:04 < wzzrd> doing it as we speak
20:04 < mmcgrath> if it's buggy I don't want to expose the users to it yet.
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20:05 < mmcgrath> abadger1999: oh, and some other tools are on there.
20:05 < jds2001> is BKO officially launcehd yet?
20:05 < sijis> is this going to be the new way to install fedora?
20:05 < mmcgrath> the thing that's nice is we can update it without having to
force people to re-burn the image.
20:05 < mmcgrath> jds2001: good question, I'm not sure if he's advertising
it actively or not yet.
20:05 < mmcgrath> BFO (based on BKO) is not yet official but I have a feature
request in
20:05 < mmcgrath> sijis: it's going to be "a new way" to install
fedora
20:06 < wzzrd> won't this cost massive bandwidth? or doesn't that matter?
20:06 < sijis> gotcha, an alternative
20:06 < mmcgrath> wzzrd: actually, as it stands right now, it won't.
20:06 < mmcgrath> since it relies on the mirrors.
20:06 < mmcgrath> having said that... if we go into live media.. That gets much
trickier.
20:06 < Oxf13> yeah
20:06 < mmcgrath> and involves some architectural decisions.
20:07 < mmcgrath> I may not post them at all, I may just point to what BKO already
has setup.
20:07 < Oxf13> mmcgrath: is there anything about boot.fp.o that requires releng to
put content somewhere different/else/triggersomething/whatever?
20:07 < mmcgrath> Oxf13: not really, the one thing I was hoping from you guys is to
get some things into our default initrd's that aren't there now
20:07 < mmcgrath> like iscsi and nfs support
20:07 < mmcgrath> other then that I don't think there's any changes for
anyone.
20:08 < Oxf13> I've been trying to get notting and warthog to talk about that
for months :/
20:08 < mmcgrath> Oxf13: as I understand it there's an ordering problem with
dracut.
20:08 < Oxf13> I really don't know what the deal is
20:08 < mmcgrath> Oxf13: perhaps after the meeting you can step me through exactly
what command you run to build an ISO and I can do some tests and see if I can get it
working.
20:08 < mmcgrath> I've gotten it working after the fact.
20:08 < mmcgrath> but in the actual build process I'm a little confused what is
going on
20:08 < Oxf13> sure
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20:09 < mmcgrath> Anyone else have any questions about that?
20:09 < mmcgrath> If not we'll move on.
20:09 < mmcgrath> k
20:09 < mmcgrath> #topic The outages last night
20:09 -!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: The outages last night
20:09 < mmcgrath> So last night was weird.
20:10 < mmcgrath> special thanks for ricky and nigel for taking care of things.
20:10 < mmcgrath> The wiki went out twice, then we lost a switch blade in one of our
switches.
20:10 -!- dwmw2_gone is now known as dwmw2_WLG
20:10 < mmcgrath> that's now replaced as of an hour or two ago.
20:10 -!- mchua_afk is now known as mchua
20:10 < mmcgrath> We're not sure if the switch issues caused the wiki issues or
not
20:10 < mmcgrath> really not much else to say about that.
20:10 < mmcgrath> #topic NTP
20:10 -!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: NTP
20:10 < mmcgrath> smooge: this all done?
20:11 < smooge> NTP is done
20:11 < ricky> I have some puppet errors about being unable to remove the ntp
package
20:11 < ricky> Some machines need system-config-date for something, and thus need
ntp
20:11 < mmcgrath> ricky: how many errors?
20:12 < ricky> So I'd juts disable the service and not remove the package in
ntp::noclient
20:12 < smooge> all hardware systems should be running NTP
20:12 < smooge> oh ok
20:12 < smooge> I can change the logic
20:12 < ricky> compose machines, spin1, publictest2
20:12 < smooge> sorry didn't know that
20:12 < ricky> No worries, it didn't cause any harm
20:12 < pjones> mmcgrath: Oxf13: the ordering problem is that there's no way to
tell rpm to order something earlier in the transaction /if and only if/ it's already
there.
20:12 < mmcgrath> ricky: so non-RHEL hosts?
20:13 < smooge> well I was planning on installing it on all machines at first and
just have it not running.. but I was worried if that was outside of standard scope
20:13 < ricky> Ah, looks like it, didn't notice that.
20:13 < mmcgrath> pjones: is there some command we can run in %post?
20:14 < pjones> not really; for mpath I'm probably going to change anaconda to
set hostonly in the dracut config and rebuild the initrd at the end of install. which
sucks.
20:14 < pjones> (we could make other things do that as well)
20:14 < mmcgrath> pjones: mind if I ping you after the meeting for more?
20:15 < pjones> mmcgrath: no problem
20:15 < mmcgrath> smooge: ricky: we can take a look after the meeting
20:15 < mmcgrath> ricky: what is the error btw?
20:15 < smooge> np
20:15 < ricky> Thu Jan 21 17:10:55 +0000 2010 //ntp::noclient/Package[ntp]/ensure
(err): change from 4.2.4p8-1.fc13 t
20:15 < ricky> o absent failed: Execution of '/bin/rpm -e
ntp-4.2.4p8-1.fc13.x86_64' returned 1: error: Failed depend
20:15 < ricky> encies: ntp is needed by (installed)
system-config-date-1.9.53-1.fc13.noarch
20:15 < mmcgrath> ricky: thanks.
20:16 < dgilmore> we should use yum to remove it :)
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#fedora-meeting
20:16 < mmcgrath> Ok, any questions on that?
20:16 < mmcgrath> dgilmore: I think puppet actually used to do that.
20:17 < mmcgrath> Ok, moving along
20:17 < mmcgrath> #topic Search Engine
20:17 -!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Search Engine
20:17 < mmcgrath> a-k: around?
20:17 < a-k> yep
20:17 < a-k> One of our candidates, Xapian, is on publictest3
20:17 -!- cassmodiah [n=cassie@fedora/cassmodiah] has quit Remote closed the connection
20:17 < a-k> I got it to crawl
fedoraproject.org to a depth of 4 (after about 4
hours of running)
20:17 < mmcgrath> how'd the crawl go?
20:17 < a-k> I expected disk to be the issue, but it was memory, instead
20:18 < a-k> The indexer chewed up all the memory at a depth of 5 (after about 10
hours of running)
20:18 < a-k> So I backed off one level
20:18 < a-k> The search tool is available at:
20:18 -!- _lmr_ [n=lmr(a)201.82.134.195] has quit Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
20:18 < a-k> #link
http://publictest3.fedoraproject.org/cgi-bin/omega
20:18 < a-k> Nutch is next to do
20:18 < a-k> I'll update the wiki with the new info on publictest
20:18 -!- _lmr_ [n=lmr(a)201.82.134.195] has joined #fedora-meeting
20:19 < a-k> huzaifas also says he'll be updating the wiki with the stuff
he's evaluated in the past month or so
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20:19 < a-k> That's about it for now
20:19 < mmcgrath> a-k: excellent.
20:19 < mmcgrath> seems pretty peppy
20:19 < mmcgrath> a-k: do you need more memory?
20:19 < mmcgrath> how much does pt3 have now?
20:19 < a-k> I don't know if the memory issue was a leak or if it really needs
more
20:19 < a-k> We could always try more, if you're up for it
20:20 < a-k> But I don't know how much more more is
20:20 < jds2001> its got 2gb
20:20 < a-k> A 2g of swap
20:20 < mmcgrath> jds2001: it's x86_64 though :-/
20:20 < mmcgrath> hmm
20:20 < mmcgrath> I wonder if we should rebuild it i386
20:20 < jds2001> mmcgrath: it's at ibiblio, so we've got plenty of resources
there
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20:20 < a-k> Where will it run when deployed?
20:21 < a-k> ... if ever ...
20:21 < mmcgrath> yeah
20:21 < jds2001> on the app servers, i think....
20:21 < mmcgrath> a-k: probably across multiple hosts in PHX2
20:21 < mmcgrath> a-k: can I reboot publictest3 right now?
20:21 < a-k> reboot, sure
20:22 < a-k> But it will run on x86_64, right, so we should test there
20:22 < jds2001> mmcgrath: how are you doing this? :)
20:22 < mmcgrath> a-k: it may or may not.
20:22 < mmcgrath> a-k: we run lots of stuff on i386 and get a considerable memory
savings on some.
20:22 < mmcgrath> a-k: ok, publictest3 is booting and now has 4G of RAM.
20:22 < mmcgrath> we'll see if that helps.
20:23 < mmcgrath> Anyone have any other questions about that?
20:23 -!- _lmr_ [n=lmr(a)201.82.134.195] has joined #fedora-meeting
20:23 < mmcgrath> jds2001: I'm doing it on ibiblio1 if that's what
you're asking?
20:24 < mmcgrath> anywho, that's that
20:24 < mmcgrath> #topic Noobs?
20:24 -!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Noobs?
20:24 < mmcgrath> Any new people around that want to say hey?
20:25 < nullsys> Im a noob
20:25 < _yawns_> hey
20:25 < mmcgrath> nullsys: yeah, you're working with the websites team right?
20:25 < ricky> Welcome
20:25 < mmcgrath> and helped with blogs?
20:25 < jaxjax> Hi
20:25 * wzzrd is a noob too :-)
20:25 * dgilmore is n00b
20:25 < nullsys> hiemanshu, been around a week or two. Working on blogsadmin,
helping out with website team on a few projects. Im an ambassador and in the freemedia
group. Also working with MooDoo to head the fedora-uk stuff too.
20:25 < nullsys> sorry, "hi" + tab again lol.
20:26 < mmcgrath> nullsys: excellent, welcome
20:26 < nullsys> thanks :)
20:26 < mmcgrath> _yawns_: you're new? what brings you to Infrastructure?
20:26 < hiemanshu> nullsys: fix it :)
20:26 < nullsys> Told you i'd bug you :P
20:26 < _yawns_> interested in helping how I can
20:27 < _yawns_> not really sure exactly in what fashion yet
20:27 < nullsys> Im sure plenty of projects require allsorts of happy. Have you had
a look at the different ways you can "join"?
20:28 < _yawns_> I had a look around a bit last night and saw this meeting today
20:28 < mmcgrath> _yawns_: interested just in something in Fedora or in
Infrastructure specifically?
20:28 < _yawns_> Infrastructure seemed to match my interest the most as well as
skill set
20:29 < mmcgrath> _yawns_: well make sure you've read through -
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/GettingStarted
20:29 < _yawns_> I hope you don't mind if I sit in and listen for a while
20:29 < _yawns_> will do
20:29 < mmcgrath> jaxjax: I know you're new here, tell us a bit about yourself
and what you were interested in doing.
20:29 < mmcgrath> _yawns_: of course not.
20:29 < nullsys> If I could offer any advice here, it would be to contact any
project leaders your interested in helping out with. Also a good setup for your wiki user
page would help any questions asked. Good luck with it.
20:30 < _yawns_> Thanks :)
20:30 -!- warren [n=warren@redhat/wombat/warren] has quit "Leaving"
20:30 < jaxjax> Hi I'm interested about virtualization and stor
20:30 < jaxjax> Sorry storage
20:30 < mmcgrath> jaxjax: ah, have you read through the GettingStarted page?
20:30 < jaxjax> But will help with everything you think I can help with
20:31 < jaxjax> Yeah I did
20:31 < jaxjax> Sent my intro last days
20:31 < jaxjax> I think I can help a lot just let me how
20:32 < mmcgrath> jaxjax: excellent, lets meet up after the meeting
20:32 < jaxjax> Sure
20:32 < mmcgrath> Ok, anyone have anything else to say before I open the floor?
20:33 < mmcgrath> k
20:33 < mmcgrath> #topic Open Floor
20:33 -!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Open Floor
20:33 < mmcgrath> Anyone have anything in particular they'd like to discuss?
20:34 < wzzrd> i saw gregdek has created a cloud sig
20:34 < mmcgrath> wzzrd: he did, I'm on it.
20:34 < Oxf13> "cloud"
20:34 < mmcgrath> :)
20:34 < wzzrd> is that something the Infra team will cooperate in, in any way?
20:34 < mmcgrath> wzzrd: well, that's a complex question. Fedora was actually
going to offer some free guests running in the cloud.
20:34 < mmcgrath> but the software to manage that cloud never really got put
together.
20:35 < mmcgrath> so it's very much left in a state of limbo at the moment.
20:35 < wzzrd> i guess management software like that gets real complex real quick
20:35 < mmcgrath> wzzrd: espeically when the requirements are completely spelled
out.
20:36 < skvidal> mmcgrath: or they are - but they're spelled out mostly in
klingon :)
20:36 < mmcgrath> heh
20:36 < mmcgrath> Oh, one thing I wanted to mention
20:36 < mmcgrath> did everyone have a chance to look through -
http://infrastructure.fedoraproject.org/csi/host-lifecycle-policy/
20:36 < mmcgrath> ?
20:36 < mmcgrath> Nothing too objectionable about it?
20:37 < wzzrd> pretty long read; not completely through it
20:37 < smooge> "cloud" poop
20:37 < mmcgrath> wzzrd: yeah, we also have a security policy that's worth a
look.
20:37 < mmcgrath> oh, and the free software policy :)
20:37 < mmcgrath>
http://infrastructure.fedoraproject.org/csi/free-software-policy/
20:38 < mmcgrath>
http://infrastructure.fedoraproject.org/csi/security-policy/
20:38 -!- jaxjax [n=jaxjax(a)80.27.102.84] has quit "Leaving"
20:38 < wzzrd> my eyes are almost square from reading fp.o stuff already :)
20:38 -!- jaxjax [n=jaxjax(a)80.27.102.94] has joined #fedora-meeting
20:38 < skvidal> 'eyes are almost square'
20:38 < skvidal> I'll have to remember that one
20:38 < mmcgrath> heh
20:38 < Oxf13> the cloud sig will first focus on getting our EC2 presence up to
date
20:38 < wzzrd> is that the wrong way to say it?
20:39 < Oxf13> and moving forward keeping it up to date
20:39 -!- rrix [n=rrix@fedora/PhrkOnLsh] has quit "leaving"
20:39 < Oxf13> after that, not sure what the next goal will be
20:39 < skvidal> wzzrd: I'm sure it's not - I've just never heard it
before
20:39 -!- PhrkOnLsh [n=rrix@fedora/PhrkOnLsh] has joined #fedora-meeting
20:39 < mmcgrath> Oxf13: yeah, that's a worthy goal at least.
20:39 -!- PhrkOnLsh is now known as rrix
20:39 < wzzrd> skvidal: literally translated from Dutch
20:39 < mmcgrath> Ok, so anyone have anything else to say? if not we'll end the
meeting a little early today
20:39 < skvidal> wzzrd: it sounds great
20:40 < mmcgrath> ok then, done :)
20:40 < mmcgrath> #endmeeting
20:40 -!- zodbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Channel is used by various
Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get
logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting_channel for meeting schedule
20:40 < zodbot> Meeting ended Thu Jan 21 20:41:31 2010 UTC. Information about
MeetBot at
http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot .
20:40 < zodbot> Minutes:
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2010-01-21/fedora-meeting...
20:40 < zodbot> Minutes (text):
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2010-01-21/fedora-meeting...
20:40 < zodbot> Log:
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2010-01-21/fedora-meeting...