Headless JRE in Fedora

[Jiri Vanek]

Hi all!

With https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/java-1.7.0-openjdk-1.7.0.60-2.4.3...
beeing stable, 
would like to make this more visible:

The jdk in Fedora, being inspired in Debian, now supports headless version. During the
life of F20 
(as in f21 all expected packages should be correctly headless)i would like to recommend
all java 
packages maintainers, who do not need audio, or X or whatever (this is still "on
QA" on our side) 
to swap theirs dependence to java-headless.
Alos, maintainers, please do not forget, that when you update your package, also packages
you are 
depending on must become "just hedless dependent". Anyway - all libraries should
be jut java-headless :)

I would like to suggest especially wildFly and tomcat to try to migrate asap, as this
change was 
designed for them :)


Btw - the update above is now somehow stuck - it not in testing, nor in updates. Maybe the
relengs 
can help.

Best regards
  J.

[Stanislav Ochotnicky]

Quoting Jiri Vanek (2013-10-21 18:45:46)
>  Hi all!
>  
>  With https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/java-1.7.0-openjdk-1.7.0.60-2.4.3...
> beeing stable, 
>  would like to make this more visible:
>  
>  The jdk in Fedora, being inspired in Debian, now supports headless version. During the
> life of F20 
>  (as in f21 all expected packages should be correctly headless)i would like to recommend
> all java 
>  packages maintainers, who do not need audio, or X or whatever (this is still "on
> QA" on our side) 
>  to swap theirs dependence to java-headless.
>  Alos, maintainers, please do not forget, that when you update your package, also packages
> you are 
>  depending on must become "just hedless dependent". Anyway - all libraries
> should be jut java-headless :)
>  
>  I would like to suggest especially wildFly and tomcat to try to migrate asap, as this
> change was 
>  designed for them :) 
They can't. Several reasons:

    * Packaging guidelines clearly state BR/R: java
    * Maven packages have automatically generated requires on java (or
      java-devel)

To *really* make use of java-headless few things need to happen:
    * guidelines have to be updated
    * java-packages have to be changed to R: java-headless by default
    * Maven packages are rebuilt
    * packages not built with maven are migrated manually
    * leaf applications make sure they have R: java

>  Btw - the update above is now somehow stuck - it not in testing, nor
> in updates. Maybe the relengs 
>  can help. 
If you need to get in touch with rel-engs file a ticket[1], don't CC their ML or
it's going to get lost

[1] https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/

-- 
Stanislav Ochotnicky <sochotnicky(a)redhat.com&gt;
Software Engineer - Developer Experience

PGP: 7B087241
Red Hat Inc.                               http://cz.redhat.com

[Jaroslav Reznik]

----- Original Message -----
>  Quoting Jiri Vanek (2013-10-21 18:45:46)
>  > Hi all!
>  > 
>  > With
>  > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/java-1.7.0-openjdk-1.7.0.60-2.4.3...
>  > beeing stable,
>  > would like to make this more visible:
>  > 
>  > The jdk in Fedora, being inspired in Debian, now supports headless version.
>  > During the life of F20
>  > (as in f21 all expected packages should be correctly headless)i would like
>  > to recommend all java
>  > packages maintainers, who do not need audio, or X or whatever (this is
>  > still "on QA" on our side)
>  > to swap theirs dependence to java-headless.
>  > Alos, maintainers, please do not forget, that when you update your package,
>  > also packages you are
>  > depending on must become "just hedless dependent". Anyway - all libraries
>  > should be jut java-headless :)
>  > 
>  > I would like to suggest especially wildFly and tomcat to try to migrate
>  > asap, as this change was
>  > designed for them :)
>  
>  They can't. Several reasons:
>  
>      * Packaging guidelines clearly state BR/R: java
>      * Maven packages have automatically generated requires on java (or
>        java-devel)
>  
>  To *really* make use of java-headless few things need to happen:
>      * guidelines have to be updated
>      * java-packages have to be changed to R: java-headless by default
>      * Maven packages are rebuilt
>      * packages not built with maven are migrated manually
>      * leaf applications make sure they have R: java 
For me, this sounds really as something System Wide Change should be created.
It's interesting Change from marketing POV, but requires quite a lot of
coordination across the distribution/project.

Jiri, please, take a look on https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Policy
and cooperate with Java SIG on it.

Thanks
Jaroslav

>  > Btw - the update above is now somehow stuck - it not in testing,
> nor in
>  > updates. Maybe the relengs
>  > can help.
>  
>  If you need to get in touch with rel-engs file a ticket[1], don't CC their ML
>  or
>  it's going to get lost
>  
>  [1] https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/
>  
>  --
>  Stanislav Ochotnicky <sochotnicky(a)redhat.com&gt;
>  Software Engineer - Developer Experience
>  
>  PGP: 7B087241
>  Red Hat Inc.                               http://cz.redhat.com
>  
>  --
>  devel mailing list
>  devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
>  Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct

[Fernando Nasser]

Also, will this change be ackported into the Java packages of RHEL_5 and RHEL-6?

Our products use only one spec file, we'll have to add lots of %if <osversion>
in our spec files (and we have 300+ of them).


----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Stanislav Ochotnicky"
> <sochotnicky(a)redhat.com&gt;
>  To: "Jiri Vanek" <jvanek(a)redhat.com&gt;, devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  Cc: java-devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 5:08:01 AM
>  Subject: Re: [fedora-java] Headless JRE in Fedora
>  
>  Quoting Jiri Vanek (2013-10-21 18:45:46)
>  > Hi all!
>  > 
>  > With
>  > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/java-1.7.0-openjdk-1.7.0.60-2.4.3...
>  > beeing stable,
>  > would like to make this more visible:
>  > 
>  > The jdk in Fedora, being inspired in Debian, now supports headless
>  > version. During the life of F20
>  > (as in f21 all expected packages should be correctly headless)i
>  > would like to recommend all java
>  > packages maintainers, who do not need audio, or X or whatever (this
>  > is still "on QA" on our side)
>  > to swap theirs dependence to java-headless.
>  > Alos, maintainers, please do not forget, that when you update your
>  > package, also packages you are
>  > depending on must become "just hedless dependent". Anyway - all
>  > libraries should be jut java-headless :)
>  > 
>  > I would like to suggest especially wildFly and tomcat to try to
>  > migrate asap, as this change was
>  > designed for them :)
>  
>  They can't. Several reasons:
>  
>      * Packaging guidelines clearly state BR/R: java
>      * Maven packages have automatically generated requires on java
>      (or
>        java-devel)
>  
>  To *really* make use of java-headless few things need to happen:
>      * guidelines have to be updated
>      * java-packages have to be changed to R: java-headless by default
>      * Maven packages are rebuilt
>      * packages not built with maven are migrated manually
>      * leaf applications make sure they have R: java
>  
>  > Btw - the update above is now somehow stuck - it not in testing,
>  > nor in updates. Maybe the relengs
>  > can help.
>  
>  If you need to get in touch with rel-engs file a ticket[1], don't CC
>  their ML or
>  it's going to get lost
>  
>  [1] https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/
>  
>  --
>  Stanislav Ochotnicky <sochotnicky(a)redhat.com&gt;
>  Software Engineer - Developer Experience
>  
>  PGP: 7B087241
>  Red Hat Inc.                               http://cz.redhat.com
>  
>  --
>  devel mailing list
>  devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
>  Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct

[Jiri Vanek]

On 10/24/2013 04:06 PM, Fernando Nasser wrote:
>  Also, will this change be ackported into the Java packages of RHEL_5
> and RHEL-6?
>
>  Our products use only one spec file, we'll have to add lots of %if <osversion>
> in our spec files (and we have 300+ of them).
>  
I doubt it will be wonted.

And personally I discourage from this step. Even if I will adapt specfiles in el6,el7 I
doubt java 
depending apckages will adapt in some meaningfull time or with real efffect.

However the change is transaprent, so backporting is possible.

I would calll it rhel7 feature :)

J.
>  ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Stanislav Ochotnicky" <sochotnicky(a)redhat.com&gt;
> > To: "Jiri Vanek" <jvanek(a)redhat.com&gt;, devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> > Cc: java-devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> > Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 5:08:01 AM
> > Subject: Re: [fedora-java] Headless JRE in Fedora
> >
> > Quoting Jiri Vanek (2013-10-21 18:45:46)
> >> Hi all!
> >>
> >> With
> >> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/java-1.7.0-openjdk-1.7.0.60-2.4.3...
> >> beeing stable,
> >> would like to make this more visible:
> >>
> >> The jdk in Fedora, being inspired in Debian, now supports headless
> >> version. During the life of F20
> >> (as in f21 all expected packages should be correctly headless)i
> >> would like to recommend all java
> >> packages maintainers, who do not need audio, or X or whatever (this
> >> is still "on QA" on our side)
> >> to swap theirs dependence to java-headless.
> >> Alos, maintainers, please do not forget, that when you update your
> >> package, also packages you are
> >> depending on must become "just hedless dependent". Anyway - all
> >> libraries should be jut java-headless :)
> >>
> >> I would like to suggest especially wildFly and tomcat to try to
> >> migrate asap, as this change was
> >> designed for them :)
> >
> > They can't. Several reasons:
> >
> >      * Packaging guidelines clearly state BR/R: java
> >      * Maven packages have automatically generated requires on java
> >      (or
> >        java-devel)
> >
> > To *really* make use of java-headless few things need to happen:
> >      * guidelines have to be updated
> >      * java-packages have to be changed to R: java-headless by default
> >      * Maven packages are rebuilt
> >      * packages not built with maven are migrated manually
> >      * leaf applications make sure they have R: java
> >
> >> Btw - the update above is now somehow stuck - it not in testing,
> >> nor in updates. Maybe the relengs
> >> can help.
> >
> > If you need to get in touch with rel-engs file a ticket[1], don't CC
> > their ML or
> > it's going to get lost
> >
> > [1] https://fedorahosted.org/rel-eng/
> >
> > --
> > Stanislav Ochotnicky <sochotnicky(a)redhat.com&gt;
> > Software Engineer - Developer Experience
> >
> > PGP: 7B087241
> > Red Hat Inc.                               http://cz.redhat.com
> >
> > --
> > devel mailing list
> > devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
> > Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct

[Stanislav Ochotnicky]

Quoting Fernando Nasser (2013-10-24 16:06:27)
>  Also, will this change be ackported into the Java packages of RHEL_5
> and RHEL-6? 
Doesn't matter. Fedora != RHEL

>  Our products use only one spec file, we'll have to add lots of
> %if <osversion>
>  in our spec files (and we have 300+ of them). 
Well then you can still require "java" and not make use of this split in your
products. You will be pulling in a lot of unneeded cruft but it's going to work
just like it has worked for years...

-- 
Stanislav Ochotnicky <sochotnicky(a)redhat.com&gt;
Software Engineer - Developer Experience

PGP: 7B087241
Red Hat Inc.                               http://cz.redhat.com