livecd and appliance building in koji

[Dennis Gilmore]

Hi all,

Today koji has the ability to make livecds using livecd-creator, appliance 
images using appliance-creator and all sorts of other images using 
imagefactory.

For Fedora 23 we are using livecd-creator to make all the livecds, appliance-
creator to make all the arm disk images and imagefactory to make the cloud 
images and docker base image.  We have a releng person tasked with adding 
support to koji for livemedia-creator[1] it is part of lorax and is actively 
developed and maintained by the anaconda team.  It has the ability to make 
disk images and livecds.  we are planning to switch Fedora to this for Fedora 
24.

At this point in time I want to deprecate the spin-livecd command in koji in 
addition to teh already deprecated spin-appliance command. With the plan being 
to remove support from koji for the two command once Fedora 23 is EOL, which 
will be approximately around the end of November in 2016.

the livemedia-creator equivalent commands should be livecd-build and 
appliance-build to match image-build which is used to create images using 
imagefactory. appliance-build may be better off being named disk-build

I was wanting to make sure that everyone is okay with the plan and has not 
objections.

Regards

Dennis

[1] http://lorax.readthedocs.org/en/latest/livemedia-creator.html

[Neal Gompa]

On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 12:23 PM, Dennis Gilmore  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Today koji has the ability to make livecds using livecd-creator, appliance
> images using appliance-creator and all sorts of other images using
> imagefactory.
>
> For Fedora 23 we are using livecd-creator to make all the livecds,
> appliance-
> creator to make all the arm disk images and imagefactory to make the cloud
> images and docker base image.  We have a releng person tasked with adding
> support to koji for livemedia-creator[1] it is part of lorax and is
> actively
> developed and maintained by the anaconda team.  It has the ability to make
> disk images and livecds.  we are planning to switch Fedora to this for
> Fedora
> 24.

​Why not for Fedora 23? If the tool is actively developed and maintained vs
the older ones, why not switch to it now?​ Or if we can't switch now, why
not make it possible to build the Fedora 23 release artifacts with the
newer tools anyway?
> At this point in time I want to deprecate the spin-livecd command in koji
> in
> addition to teh already deprecated spin-appliance command. With the plan
> being
> to remove support from koji for the two command once Fedora 23 is EOL,
> which
> will be approximately around the end of November in 2016.

​I would suggest that Koji deprecate the older tools far earlier than F23
EOL. If the newer tools can make useful composes for Fedora 23, I don't see
why you can't aggressively migrate before F25.​
> the livemedia-creator equivalent commands should be livecd-build and
> appliance-build to match image-build which is used to create images using
> imagefactory. appliance-build may be better off being named disk-build
>
> I was wanting to make sure that everyone is okay with the plan and has not
> objections.

​I suppose my only objection is that I don't think it's aggressive enough.
Unless there's some kind of problem that prevents the usage of the new
tools with Fedora 23 release engineering, I don't see why we can't switch
to it.​
> Regards
>
> Dennis
>
> [1] http://lorax.readthedocs.org/en/latest/livemedia-creator.html
> _______________________________________________
> koji-devel mailing list
> [e-mail]
> https://lists.fedorahosted.org/mailman/listinfo/koji-devel

[Dennis Gilmore]

On Friday, September 25, 2015 12:27:49 PM Neal Gompa wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 12:23 PM, Dennis Gilmore  wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Today koji has the ability to make livecds using livecd-creator, appliance
> > images using appliance-creator and all sorts of other images using
> > imagefactory.
> >
> > For Fedora 23 we are using livecd-creator to make all the livecds,
> > appliance-
> > creator to make all the arm disk images and imagefactory to make the cloud
> > images and docker base image.  We have a releng person tasked with adding
> > support to koji for livemedia-creator[1] it is part of lorax and is
> > actively
> > developed and maintained by the anaconda team.  It has the ability to make
> > disk images and livecds.  we are planning to switch Fedora to this for
> > Fedora
> > 24.
>
> ​Why not for Fedora 23? If the tool is actively developed and maintained vs
> the older ones, why not switch to it now?​ Or if we can't switch now, why
> not make it possible to build the Fedora 23 release artifacts with the
> newer tools anyway?

livemedia-creator has been around for a few years, we have not used it 
previously as it was not possible to run in mock and ensure that we use the 
correct versions and be able to reproduce builds.  koji today can not use it 
and we prefer to make the livecds in koji so we can take advantage of host 
parallelisation we want to ensure we can continue to make the artifacts for 
the life of the release in the event we need to make updated images for 
critical security bugs.  in order to switch the kickstarts will all need some 
significant tweaking. hence the desire to keep the old tools available and 
working
> > At this point in time I want to deprecate the spin-livecd command in koji
> > in
> > addition to teh already deprecated spin-appliance command. With the plan
> > being
> > to remove support from koji for the two command once Fedora 23 is EOL,
> > which
> > will be approximately around the end of November in 2016.
>
> ​I would suggest that Koji deprecate the older tools far earlier than F23
> EOL. If the newer tools can make useful composes for Fedora 23, I don't see
> why you can't aggressively migrate before F25.​

We will deprecate them as we land livemedia-creator support in koji. They will 
be removed from the code base at the end of next year
> > the livemedia-creator equivalent commands should be livecd-build and
> > appliance-build to match image-build which is used to create images using
> > imagefactory. appliance-build may be better off being named disk-build
> >
> > I was wanting to make sure that everyone is okay with the plan and has not
> > objections.
>
> ​I suppose my only objection is that I don't think it's aggressive enough.
> Unless there's some kind of problem that prevents the usage of the new
> tools with Fedora 23 release engineering, I don't see why we can't switch
> to it.​

We can not use them today as the code i not written for koji integration and 
if it showed up tomorrow it would be completely untested and may not allow us 
to produce the Fedora 23 lives, in addition to the work that will be needed to 
convert the kickstarts. we are doing it as aggressively as we can with the 
resources that we have on hand.

Thanks for the feedback

Dennis
> > Regards
> >
> > Dennis
> >
> > [1] http://lorax.readthedocs.org/en/latest/livemedia-creator.html
> > _______________________________________________
> > koji-devel mailing list
> > [e-mail]
> > https://lists.fedorahosted.org/mailman/listinfo/koji-devel

[Neal Gompa]

On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 12:43 PM, Dennis Gilmore  wrote:
> On Friday, September 25, 2015 12:27:49 PM Neal Gompa wrote:
> > On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 12:23 PM, Dennis Gilmore
>
> wrote:
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > Today koji has the ability to make livecds using livecd-creator,
>
> appliance
> > > images using appliance-creator and all sorts of other images using
> > > imagefactory.
> > >
> > > For Fedora 23 we are using livecd-creator to make all the livecds,
> > > appliance-
> > > creator to make all the arm disk images and imagefactory to make the
>
> cloud
> > > images and docker base image.  We have a releng person tasked with
>
> adding
> > > support to koji for livemedia-creator[1] it is part of lorax and is
> > > actively
> > > developed and maintained by the anaconda team.  It has the ability to
>
> make
> > > disk images and livecds.  we are planning to switch Fedora to this for
> > > Fedora
> > > 24.
> >
> > ​Why not for Fedora 23? If the tool is actively developed and maintained
>
> vs
> > the older ones, why not switch to it now?​ Or if we can't switch now, why
> > not make it possible to build the Fedora 23 release artifacts with the
> > newer tools anyway?
>
> livemedia-creator has been around for a few years, we have not used it
> previously as it was not possible to run in mock and ensure that we use the
> correct versions and be able to reproduce builds.  koji today can not use
> it
> and we prefer to make the livecds in koji so we can take advantage of host
> parallelisation we want to ensure we can continue to make the artifacts for
> the life of the release in the event we need to make updated images for
> critical security bugs.  in order to switch the kickstarts will all need
> some
> significant tweaking. hence the desire to keep the old tools available and
> working

​I see. That makes a lot of sense.​
> > > At this point in time I want to deprecate the spin-livecd command in
>
> koji
> > > in
> > > addition to teh already deprecated spin-appliance command. With the
>
> plan
> > > being
> > > to remove support from koji for the two command once Fedora 23 is EOL,
> > > which
> > > will be approximately around the end of November in 2016.
> >
> > ​I would suggest that Koji deprecate the older tools far earlier than F23
> > EOL. If the newer tools can make useful composes for Fedora 23, I don't
>
> see
> > why you can't aggressively migrate before F25.​
>
> We will deprecate them as we land livemedia-creator support in koji. They
> will
> be removed from the code base at the end of next year

​Okay, good. I just don't want to see Koji growing to be more complex than
it already is. :)​
> > > the livemedia-creator equivalent commands should be livecd-build and
> > > appliance-build to match image-build which is used to create images
>
> using
> > > imagefactory. appliance-build may be better off being named disk-build
> > >
> > > I was wanting to make sure that everyone is okay with the plan and has
>
> not
> > > objections.
> >
> > ​I suppose my only objection is that I don't think it's aggressive
>
> enough.
> > Unless there's some kind of problem that prevents the usage of the new
> > tools with Fedora 23 release engineering, I don't see why we can't switch
> > to it.​
>
> We can not use them today as the code i not written for koji integration
> and
> if it showed up tomorrow it would be completely untested and may not allow
> us
> to produce the Fedora 23 lives, in addition to the work that will be
> needed to
> convert the kickstarts. we are doing it as aggressively as we can with the
> resources that we have on hand.

​I understand.​ I didn't realize that kickstarts need to be altered to be
used for the new tools. I'm guessing the new tools use DNF/hawkey as a
resolver now?
> Thanks for the feedback

​No problem. I'm glad you responded so well to it. :)​
> Dennis
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Dennis
> > >
> > > [1] http://lorax.readthedocs.org/en/latest/livemedia-creator.html

[Dennis Gilmore]

On Friday, September 25, 2015 12:49:13 PM Neal Gompa wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 12:43 PM, Dennis Gilmore  wrote:
> > On Friday, September 25, 2015 12:27:49 PM Neal Gompa wrote:
> > > On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 12:23 PM, Dennis Gilmore

<snip>
> > We can not use them today as the code i not written for koji integration
> > and
> > if it showed up tomorrow it would be completely untested and may not allow
> > us
> > to produce the Fedora 23 lives, in addition to the work that will be
> > needed to
> > convert the kickstarts. we are doing it as aggressively as we can with the
> > resources that we have on hand.
>
> ​I understand.​ I didn't realize that kickstarts need to be altered to be
> used for the new tools. I'm guessing the new tools use DNF/hawkey as a
> resolver now?

the new tooling uses anaconda to make the images and livecds, so yes it uses 
dnf/hawkey

Dennis
> > Thanks for the feedback
>
> ​No problem. I'm glad you responded so well to it. :)​
> > Dennis
> > > > Regards
> > > >
> > > > Dennis
> > > >
> > > > [1] http://lorax.readthedocs.org/en/latest/livemedia-creator.html