Possible OK Button (A11y) Bug

[Janina Sajka]

I booted into FC7T1 LiveCD the other day for the first time.
Fortunately, I had someone looking over my shoulder! <grin> Please read
on.

Part way through the boot an error came up about accessibility support.
It's enabled by default, the error said, but the AT-SPI module required
for a11y support was missing. "Press OK to continue," the message said.

1.)	I am particularly delighted to see a11y on by default, of
course. I would be. I do recall this was a testing decision for Gnome
2.17. But that raises another point: If not on after release, is there
thought on how would handle this need on the fly?

2.)	The real problem I encountered may be much more than missing
AT-SPI. The OK button was not keyboardable, meaning I could not press
enter to dismiss it. I had to get my sighted colleague to put the mouse
cursor on it and click it away.

Here's my concern: Is this possibly only this dialog? Or any similar
"missing something or other" dialog? If the latter, do I Bugzilla this
in Gnome? On Fedora?

Or, was my laptop keyboard just not working yesterday and the button
dismisses perfectly well with the enter key?

Thanks for all guidance on this. It's a major issue for a11y support.

PS: Did I say how thrilled I am to see a11y listed in the LiveCD feature
set?

Janina

-- 

Janina Sajka,	Phone:	[phone];	sip:[e-mail]
Partner, Capital Accessibility LLC	http://CapitalAccessibility.Com

Marketing the Owasys 22C talking screenless cell phone in the U.S. and Canada
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Linux Foundation		http://a11y.org

[Jeremy Katz]

On Wed, 2007-02-21 at 16:36 -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
>  Part way through the boot an error came up about accessibility
> support.
>  It's enabled by default, the error said, but the AT-SPI module required
>  for a11y support was missing. "Press OK to continue," the message said. 
Yes -- this is a race condition that was noticed, but in the "need to
get something out" rush, it was deemed okay for the first test release.
It's filed as
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=227214.  Note that
you can also hit this on a real system, but it's less likely since hard
disks are a lot faster than reading from CD :)

>  1.)	I am particularly delighted to see a11y on by default, of
>  course. I would be. I do recall this was a testing decision for Gnome
>  2.17. But that raises another point: If not on after release, is there
>  thought on how would handle this need on the fly? 
David has some ideas here involving gdm, the face browser, and a11y in
gdm.  I'll let him expound further

>  2.)	The real problem I encountered may be much more than missing
>  AT-SPI. The OK button was not keyboardable, meaning I could not press
>  enter to dismiss it. I had to get my sighted colleague to put the mouse
>  cursor on it and click it away.
>  
>  Here's my concern: Is this possibly only this dialog? Or any similar
>  "missing something or other" dialog? If the latter, do I Bugzilla this
>  in Gnome? On Fedora? 
The only place I've seen anything like it is this dialog.  So I think
it's just a big with how the specific dialog is (and where it is in the
startup sequence of the session).  So it should hopefully be resolved
when the actual bug is fixed

Jeremy

[Janina Sajka]

Jeremy Katz writes:
>  On Wed, 2007-02-21 at 16:36 -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
>  > Part way through the boot an error came up about accessibility support.
>  > It's enabled by default, the error said, but the AT-SPI module required
>  > for a11y support was missing. "Press OK to continue," the message said.
>  
>  Yes -- this is a race condition that was noticed, but in the "need to
>  get something out" rush, it was deemed okay for the first test release. 
No
problem. I certainly support progress over unattainable perfection.

>  It's filed as
>  https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=227214.  Note that
>  you can also hit this on a real system, but it's less likely since hard
>  disks are a lot faster than reading from CD :) 
Ah! Thank you.

>  
>  > 1.)	I am particularly delighted to see a11y on by default, of
>  > course. I would be. I do recall this was a testing decision for Gnome
>  > 2.17. But that raises another point: If not on after release, is there
>  > thought on how would handle this need on the fly?
>  
>  David has some ideas here involving gdm, the face browser, and a11y in
>  gdm.  I'll let him expound further 
OK. Understood. GDM is supposed to allow us
to do gestures like "hold
Ctrl-S for 5 seconds to start speech," or "Ctrl-M for 5 seconds to start
magnification." This is currently broken on all Linux, I believe, and
only working on Solaris.

>  
>  > 2.)	The real problem I encountered may be much more than missing
>  > AT-SPI. The OK button was not keyboardable, meaning I could not press
>  > enter to dismiss it. I had to get my sighted colleague to put the mouse
>  > cursor on it and click it away.
>  > 
>  > Here's my concern: Is this possibly only this dialog? Or any similar
>  > "missing something or other" dialog? If the latter, do I Bugzilla this
>  > in Gnome? On Fedora?
>  
>  The only place I've seen anything like it is this dialog.  So I think
>  it's just a big with how the specific dialog is (and where it is in the
>  startup sequence of the session).  So it should hopefully be resolved
>  when the actual bug is fixed 
OK. Thanks. I appreciate the reassurance.

Janina

>  
>  Jeremy
>  
>  --
>  Fedora-livecd-list mailing list
>  Fedora-livecd-list(a)redhat.com
>  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list 
-- 

Janina Sajka,	Phone:	[phone];	sip:[e-mail]
Partner, Capital Accessibility LLC	http://CapitalAccessibility.Com

Marketing the Owasys 22C talking screenless cell phone in the U.S. and Canada
Learn more at http://ScreenlessPhone.Com

Chair, Open Accessibility	janina(a)a11y.org	
Linux Foundation		http://a11y.org

[David Zeuthen]

On Wed, 2007-02-21 at 19:46 -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
>  > David has some ideas here involving gdm, the face browser, and
> a11y in
>  > gdm.  I'll let him expound further
>
>  OK. Understood. GDM is supposed to allow us to do gestures like "hold
>  Ctrl-S for 5 seconds to start speech," or "Ctrl-M for 5 seconds to start
>  magnification." This is currently broken on all Linux, I believe, and
>  only working on Solaris. 
Actually I looked into this the past week and am happy to report it's
working fine for me. It did require both making the themed greeter more
a11y-friendly as well as some other fixes. It's tracked here (note the
pointers to the various bugs on the GNOME bugzilla)

 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=229912

and the live CD for Fedora 7 test3 should have this, e.g. we want the
live CD to boot into gdm and from there you can enable AT's (and/or
select your language) and these will also be started for your desktop
session.

    David

[Jeremy Katz]

On Wed, 2007-02-21 at 16:36 -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
>  Part way through the boot an error came up about accessibility
> support.
>  It's enabled by default, the error said, but the AT-SPI module required
>  for a11y support was missing. "Press OK to continue," the message said.
[snip]
>  2.)	The real problem I encountered may be much more than missing
>  AT-SPI. The OK button was not keyboardable, meaning I could not press
>  enter to dismiss it. I had to get my sighted colleague to put the mouse
>  cursor on it and click it away. 
And something obvious that Ray pointed out to me today when I hit it
again (drats, I was hoping it would just get fixed upstream) is that if
you move the mouse just to the upper right corner, then the dialog has
focus and you can press enter.

But I think I might try to see what's causing it here shortly

Jeremy

[Jeremy Katz]

On Fri, 2007-02-23 at 13:35 -0500, Jeremy Katz wrote:
>  On Wed, 2007-02-21 at 16:36 -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
>  > Part way through the boot an error came up about accessibility support.
>  > It's enabled by default, the error said, but the AT-SPI module required
>  > for a11y support was missing. "Press OK to continue," the message said.
>  [snip]
>  > 2.)	The real problem I encountered may be much more than missing
>  > AT-SPI. The OK button was not keyboardable, meaning I could not press
>  > enter to dismiss it. I had to get my sighted colleague to put the mouse
>  > cursor on it and click it away.
>  
>  And something obvious that Ray pointed out to me today when I hit it
>  again (drats, I was hoping it would just get fixed upstream) is that if
>  you move the mouse just to the upper right corner, then the dialog has
>  focus and you can press enter.
>  
>  But I think I might try to see what's causing it here shortly 
Okay, that was ridiculous.  There's a check to see if the at registry
starts within n seconds (was 2 seconds in test1, has increased to 5
now... but that's still not always enough).  Put in a quick fix for
test2 and then we'll get a real fix afterwards

Jeremy

[Janina Sajka]

Jeremy Katz writes:
>  On Fri, 2007-02-23 at 13:35 -0500, Jeremy Katz wrote:
>  > On Wed, 2007-02-21 at 16:36 -0500, Janina Sajka wrote:
>  > > Part way through the boot an error came up about accessibility support.
>  > > It's enabled by default, the error said, but the AT-SPI module required
>  > > for a11y support was missing. "Press OK to continue," the message
> said.
>  > [snip]
>  > > 2.)	The real problem I encountered may be much more than missing
>  > > AT-SPI. The OK button was not keyboardable, meaning I could not press
>  > > enter to dismiss it. I had to get my sighted colleague to put the mouse
>  > > cursor on it and click it away.
>  > 
>  > And something obvious that Ray pointed out to me today when I hit it
>  > again (drats, I was hoping it would just get fixed upstream) is that if
>  > you move the mouse just to the upper right corner, then the dialog has
>  > focus and you can press enter.
>  > 
>  > But I think I might try to see what's causing it here shortly
>  
>  Okay, that was ridiculous.  There's a check to see if the at registry
>  starts within n seconds (was 2 seconds in test1, has increased to 5
>  now... but that's still not always enough).  Put in a quick fix for
>  test2 and then we'll get a real fix afterwards
>   
Fabulous, Jeremy. Thank you.

Janina

>  Jeremy
>  
>  --
>  Fedora-livecd-list mailing list
>  Fedora-livecd-list(a)redhat.com
>  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-livecd-list 
-- 

Janina Sajka,	Phone:	[phone];	sip:[e-mail]
Partner, Capital Accessibility LLC	http://CapitalAccessibility.Com

Marketing the Owasys 22C talking screenless cell phone in the U.S. and Canada
Learn more at http://ScreenlessPhone.Com

Chair, Open Accessibility	janina(a)a11y.org	
Linux Foundation		http://a11y.org