RHN Updates

[Matthew Winter]

Hi,

Since RedHat has now moved to a community based RHL project, in general
this means no more support. RedHat however will not want to loose this
revenue source, however small it might have been.

I would like to see RedHat enhance the RHN into a subscription based
Package Install / Update / Search system.

Something cross between Synaptic, the Lindows Click2Run and the current
RHN update facility.

I for one would subscribe to such a service, to guarentee that packages
have been properly compiled for a specific release of RHL, and tested.

I also think that the software should allow you to choose from Stable
and Test releases. Allowing a user to decide what they want to install.

Having such a tool would improve the value of the RHN, and provide
RedHat and the community with a means to test packages before the next
Beta ISO is released.

Just my 2 pence worth on the subject.

Matthew

[seth vidal]

>  Red Hats' efforts to make the RHL project a community effort may
> not go
>  to far if people are not more receptive to new ideas. It seems new
>  contributors have a hard time getting into the fold, especially if our
>  ideas don't follow the "norm." At this point, I don't really feel like
>  my thoughts and opinions are welcome on this list or in the RHLP. 
Oh cmon. So jef said he didn't like your ideas. Fine he might have been
abrasive, that's life, get a helmet. If you think your ideas are good
and worth pursuing that continue to do so, ignore jef and move along. If
you want everyone in the open source or otherwise worlds to be nice
you're going to need to get used to disappointment.

Trying to be courteous is a good thing, no doubt, but it doesn't always
happen. Don't seem so shocked by it, I'm sure you've bumped into
hundreds of people in life who you believed were rude to you and they
didn't see anything wrong with how they acted. I know I've bumped into a
lot of folks like that. It happens when people interact.

-sv

[Michael Young]

On Sun, 2003-08-03 at 11:25, Daniel Veillard wrote:
>  > I imagine you about to get a million reasons from Mr. Spaleta as
> to why
>  > this will *NEVER* happen. And he might even try to make you feel like an
>  > idiot for even suggesting it.
>  > 
>  > Now, if you will excuse me, I must find my asbestos suit before the
>  > flames ensue.
>  
>    Hum, may I suggest that the tone of the discussion on those lists stay
>  courteous. Suggestions on how RHN or other Red Hat based services are
>  certainly welcome, but honnestly I don't think there is much point on arguing
>  a lot about those here. It is a customer service, and feedback on 
>  improvements is again welcome but please don't fight about whether 
>  suggested changes makes sense or not, I think it is ultimately a Red Hat
>  decision on how Red Hat Network service may evolve, and hence starting
>  flamewars here about how suggestion "might" affect the service sounds
>  a bit pointless to me, isn't it ? 

This is true, and I apologize. But you might want to look at my thread,
"updates." All of my thoughts and suggestions were immediately met with
what I felt was contempt and argument (not all of them of course), and
the tone from Mr. Spelata was what I would describe as abrasive and
insulting. It is definitely a RH decision what happens with RHN, but the
fact remains, no one from RH even responded to my question which was
directly associated to RHN. 

Red Hats' efforts to make the RHL project a community effort may not go
to far if people are not more receptive to new ideas. It seems new
contributors have a hard time getting into the fold, especially if our
ideas don't follow the "norm." At this point, I don't really feel like
my thoughts and opinions are welcome on this list or in the RHLP.

-- 
Michael Young <betatest(a)gnucode.kicks-ass.net&gt;

[Kyle Maxwell]

On Sun, 2003-08-03 at 19:49, Tom Diehl wrote:

>  Just one suggestion Michael, instead of using the rhn subscription
> you paid
>  for on the beta why not just sign up for the complimantry entitlment and use
>  that for the beta if and when that should become useful? that way you can have
>  your cake and eat it too. :-) 
This is what I do. I was going to purchase an entitlement for home (we
use it at work), actually, until the new development/beta program was
announced, so I'm putting that off for the moment and running Severn
with a demo subscription. If I go back to Shrike or just go to Cambridge
when it's up, I might go ahead and go to a paid entitlement, but for now
I don't see the point.

I actually agree with Michael to a point, that it would be nice to have
RHN keep updating test packages for the beta, but OTOH I'm not expecting
it. There's a lot I'd like to see changed in the beta, but as not
everything appears to have been announced (witness
http://rhl.redhat.com)  I'm waiting patiently. Hopefully Red Hat will
let us all know something this week.

-- 
Kyle Maxwell <kylem(a)xwell.org&gt;

[Jack Bowling]

On Sun, Aug 03, 2003 at 02:14:02PM -0400, seth vidal wrote:
>  
>  > Red Hats' efforts to make the RHL project a community effort may not go
>  > to far if people are not more receptive to new ideas. It seems new
>  > contributors have a hard time getting into the fold, especially if our
>  > ideas don't follow the "norm." At this point, I don't really feel
> like
>  > my thoughts and opinions are welcome on this list or in the RHLP.
>  
>  Oh cmon. So jef said he didn't like your ideas. Fine he might have been
>  abrasive, that's life, get a helmet. If you think your ideas are good
>  and worth pursuing that continue to do so, ignore jef and move along. If
>  you want everyone in the open source or otherwise worlds to be nice
>  you're going to need to get used to disappointment.
>  
>  Trying to be courteous is a good thing, no doubt, but it doesn't always
>  happen. Don't seem so shocked by it, I'm sure you've bumped into
>  hundreds of people in life who you believed were rude to you and they
>  didn't see anything wrong with how they acted. I know I've bumped into a
>  lot of folks like that. It happens when people interact. 
Sad fact -- people with thin skins don't do well on email lists.
Judicious use of the delete key and email filters may be warranted for
those afflicted.


-- 
Jack Bowling
mailto: jbinpg(a)shaw.ca

[Adrian Likins]

On Sun, Aug 03, 2003 at 05:48:05PM +0100, Matthew Winter wrote:
>  Hi,
>  
>  Since RedHat has now moved to a community based RHL project, in general
>  this means no more support. RedHat however will not want to loose this
>  revenue source, however small it might have been.
>  
>  I would like to see RedHat enhance the RHN into a subscription based
>  Package Install / Update / Search system.
>  
	Hmm, thought it already did that ;-> 
 
>  Something cross between Synaptic, the Lindows Click2Run and the
> current
>  RHN update facility.
>   
/me imagines a cross between synaptic's ui and up2date ui's (leaves
a lot to be desired itself, to say the least). 

/me shudders ;->

	But I understand the goal.

>  to guarentee that packages
>  have been properly compiled for a specific release of RHL, and tested. 
	
	ah, the rub. That of course, is The Hard Part. The
rest is easy. 


>  I also think that the software should allow you to choose from
> Stable
>  and Test releases. Allowing a user to decide what they want to install.
>  
>  Having such a tool would improve the value of the RHN, and provide
>  RedHat and the community with a means to test packages before the next
>  Beta ISO is released.
>  
	I would tend to agree. 

Adrian

[Tom Diehl]

On 3 Aug 2003, Michael Young wrote:

>  I imagine you about to get a million reasons from Mr. Spaleta as to
> why
>  this will *NEVER* happen. And he might even try to make you feel like an
>  idiot for even suggesting it. 
Just one suggestion Michael, instead of using the rhn subscription you paid
for on the beta why not just sign up for the complimantry entitlment and use
that for the beta if and when that should become useful? that way you can have
your cake and eat it too. :-)

>  Now, if you will excuse me, I must find my asbestos suit before the
>  flames ensue. 
Not from me. I am not interested.

-- 
......Tom		Registered Linux User #14522	http://counter.li.org
tdiehl(a)rogueind.com	My current SpamTrap ------->	mtd123(a)rogueind.com

[Michael Schwendt]

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Hash: SHA1

On 03 Aug 2003 12:01:05 -0600, Michael Young wrote:

>  Red Hats' efforts to make the RHL project a community effort may
> not go
>  to far if people are not more receptive to new ideas. It seems new
>  contributors have a hard time getting into the fold, especially if our
>  ideas don't follow the "norm." At this point, I don't really feel like
>  my thoughts and opinions are welcome on this list or in the RHLP. 
Please be patient and give them some more time to rework the RHLP
web pages and get the project going.

- -- 
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[Daniel Veillard]

On Sun, Aug 03, 2003 at 11:06:38AM -0600, Michael Young wrote:
>  On Sun, 2003-08-03 at 10:48, Matthew Winter wrote:
>  > Having such a tool would improve the value of the RHN, and provide
>  > RedHat and the community with a means to test packages before the next
>  > Beta ISO is released.
>  > 
>  > Just my 2 pence worth on the subject. 
[...]
>  I imagine you about to get a million reasons from Mr. Spaleta as to
> why
>  this will *NEVER* happen. And he might even try to make you feel like an
>  idiot for even suggesting it.
>  
>  Now, if you will excuse me, I must find my asbestos suit before the
>  flames ensue. 
  Hum, may I suggest that the tone of the discussion on those lists stay
courteous. Suggestions on how RHN or other Red Hat based services are
certainly welcome, but honnestly I don't think there is much point on arguing
a lot about those here. It is a customer service, and feedback on 
improvements is again welcome but please don't fight about whether 
suggested changes makes sense or not, I think it is ultimately a Red Hat
decision on how Red Hat Network service may evolve, and hence starting
flamewars here about how suggestion "might" affect the service sounds
a bit pointless to me, isn't it ?

Daniel

-- 
Daniel Veillard      | Red Hat Network https://rhn.redhat.com/
veillard(a)redhat.com  | libxml GNOME XML XSLT toolkit  http://xmlsoft.org/
http://veillard.com/ | Rpmfind RPM search engine http://rpmfind.net/

[Michael Young]

On Sun, 2003-08-03 at 10:48, Matthew Winter wrote:
>  Hi,
>  
>  Since RedHat has now moved to a community based RHL project, in general
>  this means no more support. RedHat however will not want to loose this
>  revenue source, however small it might have been.
>  
>  I would like to see RedHat enhance the RHN into a subscription based
>  Package Install / Update / Search system.
>  
>  Something cross between Synaptic, the Lindows Click2Run and the current
>  RHN update facility.
>  
>  I for one would subscribe to such a service, to guarentee that packages
>  have been properly compiled for a specific release of RHL, and tested.
>  
>  I also think that the software should allow you to choose from Stable
>  and Test releases. Allowing a user to decide what they want to install.
>  
>  Having such a tool would improve the value of the RHN, and provide
>  RedHat and the community with a means to test packages before the next
>  Beta ISO is released.
>  
>  Just my 2 pence worth on the subject.
>  
>  Matthew 
I imagine you about to get a million reasons from Mr. Spaleta as to why
this will *NEVER* happen. And he might even try to make you feel like an
idiot for even suggesting it.

Now, if you will excuse me, I must find my asbestos suit before the
flames ensue.

-- 
Michael Young <betatest(a)gnucode.kicks-ass.net&gt;