Hello,
I noticed the new Fedora 20 wallpaper looks like a swastika. It would be great if it didn't for the final release, it would upset a few people.
I filed a bug here under wallpapers, but moved it to distro since it's a policy decision: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1030643
Sorry, wrong list. I was looking for the test release list. Apologies.
On Tue, 2013-11-19 at 11:25 -0800, James Patterson wrote:
Hello,
I noticed the new Fedora 20 wallpaper looks like a swastika. It would be great if it didn't for the final release, it would upset a few people.
I filed a bug here under wallpapers, but moved it to distro since it's a policy decision: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1030643
FWIW, it doesn't look remotely like one to me or anyone else currently discussing it in #fedora-devel.
On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Adam Williamson awilliam@redhat.comwrote:
On Tue, 2013-11-19 at 11:25 -0800, James Patterson wrote:
Hello,
I noticed the new Fedora 20 wallpaper looks like a swastika. It would be great if it didn't for the final release, it would upset a few people.
I filed a bug here under wallpapers, but moved it to distro since it's a policy decision: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1030643
FWIW, it doesn't look remotely like one to me or anyone else currently discussing it in #fedora-devel. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net http://www.happyassassin.net
If anything looks even remotely like anything that brings up the horrors
of Nazi Germany, including a swastika, it REALLY should be removed, lest we become fodder for some really nasty kickback from Jewish people. This decision to include such might encourage people like Bill Gates - who is also a political scientist, aside from abusing the public with his Microsoft stuff - fuel to kill our organisation - and perhaps Linux as a whole - via the courts.
-- Richard
On Tue, 2013-11-19 at 15:31 -0800, Richard Vickery wrote:
On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Adam Williamson awilliam@redhat.com wrote: On Tue, 2013-11-19 at 11:25 -0800, James Patterson wrote: > Hello, > > I noticed the new Fedora 20 wallpaper looks like a swastika. It would be > great if it didn't for the final release, it would upset a few people. > > I filed a bug here under wallpapers, but moved it to distro since it's a > policy decision: > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1030643
FWIW, it doesn't look remotely like one to me or anyone else currently discussing it in #fedora-devel. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net http://www.happyassassin.net
If anything looks even remotely like anything that brings up the horrors of Nazi Germany, including a swastika, it REALLY should be removed, lest we become fodder for some really nasty kickback from Jewish people. This decision to include such might encourage people like Bill Gates - who is also a political scientist, aside from abusing the public with his Microsoft stuff - fuel to kill our organisation - and perhaps Linux as a whole - via the courts.
There really isn't any need for alarmism. We're talking about https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/File:F20-alpha-wallpaper-wide.png . No-one is getting sued into oblivion by Bill Gates or anyone else. Why do so many people seem to want to default to OMG PANIC! mode these days?
Hi,
If you suggest to someone that this wallpaper looks like a swastika - it might look so.
When I look at this image and I don't think about swastika I don't see it. It's just a power of suggestion - nothing more from my POV.
(And yeah, I live in country where we take such things seriously. There is only 24 km from my living place to Oświęcim https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Pisarzowicka&daddr=O%C5%9Bwi%C4%99cim... )
2013/11/20 Adam Williamson awilliam@redhat.com
On Tue, 2013-11-19 at 15:31 -0800, Richard Vickery wrote:
On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Adam Williamson awilliam@redhat.com wrote: On Tue, 2013-11-19 at 11:25 -0800, James Patterson wrote: > Hello, > > I noticed the new Fedora 20 wallpaper looks like a swastika. It would be > great if it didn't for the final release, it would upset a few people. > > I filed a bug here under wallpapers, but moved it to distro since it's a > policy decision: > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1030643
FWIW, it doesn't look remotely like one to me or anyone else currently discussing it in #fedora-devel. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net http://www.happyassassin.net
If anything looks even remotely like anything that brings up the horrors of Nazi Germany, including a swastika, it REALLY should be removed, lest we become fodder for some really nasty kickback from Jewish people. This decision to include such might encourage people like Bill Gates - who is also a political scientist, aside from abusing the public with his Microsoft stuff - fuel to kill our organisation - and perhaps Linux as a whole - via the courts.
There really isn't any need for alarmism. We're talking about https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/File:F20-alpha-wallpaper-wide.png . No-one is getting sued into oblivion by Bill Gates or anyone else. Why do so many people seem to want to default to OMG PANIC! mode these days? -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net http://www.happyassassin.net
-- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 00:50:22 +0100, Michał Piotrowski wrote:
Hi,
If you suggest to someone that this wallpaper looks like a swastika - it might look so.
Only with a lot of fantasy and when throwing away the knowledge of what a real swastika looks like. Relevant to Germans would also be that there are several other "forbidden symbols", but none of them can be recognised in this background.
When I look at this image and I don't think about swastika I don't see it.
There is no swastika to see in that background. Nobody can show it to you. In the pattern one could not even draw a red border around areas to highlight a swastika.
On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 3:35 PM, Adam Williamson awilliam@redhat.comwrote:
On Tue, 2013-11-19 at 15:31 -0800, Richard Vickery wrote:
On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Adam Williamson awilliam@redhat.com wrote: On Tue, 2013-11-19 at 11:25 -0800, James Patterson wrote: > Hello, > > I noticed the new Fedora 20 wallpaper looks like a swastika. It would be > great if it didn't for the final release, it would upset a few people. > > I filed a bug here under wallpapers, but moved it to distro since it's a > policy decision: > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1030643
FWIW, it doesn't look remotely like one to me or anyone else currently discussing it in #fedora-devel. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net http://www.happyassassin.net
If anything looks even remotely like anything that brings up the horrors of Nazi Germany, including a swastika, it REALLY should be removed, lest we become fodder for some really nasty kickback from Jewish people. This decision to include such might encourage people like Bill Gates - who is also a political scientist, aside from abusing the public with his Microsoft stuff - fuel to kill our organisation - and perhaps Linux as a whole - via the courts.
There really isn't any need for alarmism. We're talking about https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/File:F20-alpha-wallpaper-wide.png . No-one is getting sued into oblivion by Bill Gates or anyone else. Why do so many people seem to want to default to OMG PANIC! mode these days? -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net http://www.happyassassin.net
Sorry Adam, I didn't mean to sound alarmist. I just tend to think that
Gates is abusively opportunistic.
On 11/19/2013 05:35 PM, Adam Williamson wrote:
There really isn't any need for alarmism. We're talking about https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/File:F20-alpha-wallpaper-wide.png . No-one is getting sued into oblivion by Bill Gates or anyone else. Why do so many people seem to want to default to OMG PANIC! mode these days?
I kinda see the number 2. Sort of. But a swastika? Nope.
TC
On 11/19/2013 10:02 PM, Thomas Cameron wrote:
On 11/19/2013 05:35 PM, Adam Williamson wrote:
There really isn't any need for alarmism. We're talking about https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/File:F20-alpha-wallpaper-wide.png . No-one is getting sued into oblivion by Bill Gates or anyone else. Why do so many people seem to want to default to OMG PANIC! mode these days?
I kinda see the number 2. Sort of. But a swastika? Nope.
TC
I see the H of Heisenbug :)
On 11/20/13 08:38, "Germán A. Racca" wrote:
On 11/19/2013 10:02 PM, Thomas Cameron wrote:
On 11/19/2013 05:35 PM, Adam Williamson wrote:
There really isn't any need for alarmism. We're talking about https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/File:F20-alpha-wallpaper-wide.png . No-one is getting sued into oblivion by Bill Gates or anyone else. Why do so many people seem to want to default to OMG PANIC! mode these days?
I kinda see the number 2. Sort of. But a swastika? Nope.
TC
I see the H of Heisenbug :)
I see a closeup of 200 count Egyptian cotton weave. I could in no why, no matter how hard I tried or squinted, see anything close to a swastika.
On 20.11.2013 00:35, Adam Williamson wrote:
On Tue, 2013-11-19 at 15:31 -0800, Richard Vickery wrote:
On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 1:12 PM, Adam Williamson awilliam@redhat.com wrote: On Tue, 2013-11-19 at 11:25 -0800, James Patterson wrote: > Hello, > > I noticed the new Fedora 20 wallpaper looks like a swastika. It would be > great if it didn't for the final release, it would upset a few people. > > I filed a bug here under wallpapers, but moved it to distro since it's a > policy decision: > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1030643
FWIW, it doesn't look remotely like one to me or anyone else currently discussing it in #fedora-devel. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net http://www.happyassassin.net
If anything looks even remotely like anything that brings up the horrors of Nazi Germany, including a swastika, it REALLY should be removed, lest we become fodder for some really nasty kickback from Jewish people. This decision to include such might encourage people like Bill Gates - who is also a political scientist, aside from abusing the public with his Microsoft stuff - fuel to kill our organisation - and perhaps Linux as a whole - via the courts.
There really isn't any need for alarmism. We're talking about https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/File:F20-alpha-wallpaper-wide.png . No-one is getting sued into oblivion by Bill Gates or anyone else. Why do so many people seem to want to default to OMG PANIC! mode these days?
Probably related to this: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/concern_troll
Regards, Dennis
I don't perceive any swastikas in the current Heisenbug background, and I can fantasize from an ink plot better then the average bear.
I would like to see something less boring, perhaps a rotation of high res pictures of celestial objects and NASA photos. Hopefully the quality will be sufficient to prevent artifacts from appearing on large screens.
On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 08:37:20AM -0800, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX wrote:
I don't perceive any swastikas in the current Heisenbug background, and I can fantasize from an ink plot better then the average bear.
I'm Jewish, for what it's worth. I don't _think_ I would have noticed it had it not been mentioned, but after reading the list and finally having a look for myself, I saw where people might see a swastika in it.
Now that it's been mentioned, I find that I can't help but notice, though I think that even had I noticed on my own, I would have figured it's just me and let it go.
2013/11/20 Scott Robbins scottro@nyc.rr.com
On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 08:37:20AM -0800, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX wrote:
I don't perceive any swastikas in the current Heisenbug background, and I can fantasize from an ink plot better then the average bear.
I'm Jewish, for what it's worth. I don't _think_ I would have noticed it had it not been mentioned, but after reading the list and finally having a look for myself, I saw where people might see a swastika in it.
Now that it's been mentioned, I find that I can't help but notice, though I think that even had I noticed on my own, I would have figured it's just me and let it go.
I think that for a sake of everyone who can see a swastika on this wallpaper, just change it to something else.
Best regards, Michal
On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 12:46 PM, Michał Piotrowski mkkp4x4@gmail.comwrote:
2013/11/20 Scott Robbins scottro@nyc.rr.com
On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 08:37:20AM -0800, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX wrote:
I don't perceive any swastikas in the current Heisenbug background, and I can fantasize from an ink plot better then the average bear.
I'm Jewish, for what it's worth. I don't _think_ I would have noticed it had it not been mentioned, but after reading the list and finally having a look for myself, I saw where people might see a swastika in it.
Now that it's been mentioned, I find that I can't help but notice, though I think that even had I noticed on my own, I would have figured it's just me and let it go.
I think that for a sake of everyone who can see a swastika on this wallpaper, just change it to something else.
I think that for the sake of the 99.9999% who don't see a thing except a right-angled wallpaper pattern, just keep it. (This is probably one of the saddest Fedora threads I've run into in a while)
Once upon a time, Michał Piotrowski mkkp4x4@gmail.com said:
I think that for a sake of everyone who can see a swastika on this wallpaper, just change it to something else.
I disagree. There will _always_ be somebody that can find fault with anything (especially something as subjective as artwork); you can't just throw away somebody's work because somebody sees something they don't like.
I just see a slanted "H", which I presume to be the intent.
On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 12:49:14 -0600 Chris Adams linux@cmadams.net wrote:
Once upon a time, Michał Piotrowski mkkp4x4@gmail.com said:
I think that for a sake of everyone who can see a swastika on this wallpaper, just change it to something else.
I disagree. There will _always_ be somebody that can find fault with anything (especially something as subjective as artwork); you can't just throw away somebody's work because somebody sees something they don't like.
I just see a slanted "H", which I presume to be the intent.
Agree, it's Pandora's Box, and no that's not sexist.
On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 10:49 AM, Chris Adams linux@cmadams.net wrote:
Once upon a time, Michał Piotrowski mkkp4x4@gmail.com said:
I think that for a sake of everyone who can see a swastika on this wallpaper, just change it to something else.
I disagree. There will _always_ be somebody that can find fault with anything (especially something as subjective as artwork); you can't just throw away somebody's work because somebody sees something they don't like.
I just see a slanted "H", which I presume to be the intent.
Chris Adams linux@cmadams.net
test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
+1
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Adams" linux@cmadams.net To: test@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2013 1:49:14 PM Subject: Re: Fedora 20 Swastika
Once upon a time, Michał Piotrowski mkkp4x4@gmail.com said:
I think that for a sake of everyone who can see a swastika on this wallpaper, just change it to something else.
I disagree. There will _always_ be somebody that can find fault with anything (especially something as subjective as artwork); you can't just throw away somebody's work because somebody sees something they don't like.
I've been trying to remain quiet on this thread because it's reached a point of being asinine, but I have to take issue with your language. "somebody sees something they don't like" is a reference to a swastika; someone raised a concern and you were dismissive both toward the concern and toward the symbol. The swastika symbolizes a period when *millions* of people who died and tens of millions of people who had their lives completely uprooted because of the events of that era. It's not "something [a person] didn't like" so don't pin it on a single person raising an issue; that's not neither accurate nor appropriate.
I am of Jewish descent, and had family members who were in camps during the Holocaust. I don't see a swastika in the wallpaper and don't really care as to whether the it stays or goes, but I just felt the need to point out the dismissive tone when someone had clearly raised an issue.
I just see a slanted "H", which I presume to be the intent.
Chris Adams linux@cmadams.net
test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Adam Williamson (awilliam@redhat.com) said:
FWIW, it doesn't look remotely like one to me or anyone else currently discussing it in #fedora-devel.
While I do not want to overrule any decisions made, I would like to note that asking for self-selected opinions (in a not-the-most-diverse community) on whether an item is potentially offensive to a minority is a somewhat problematic methodology. (That we have done in the past for Beefy Miracle, so... I may be a hypocrite.)
Bill
On Tue, 19 Nov 2013 23:00:30 -0500 Bill Nottingham notting@redhat.com wrote:
While I do not want to overrule any decisions made, I would like to note that asking for self-selected opinions (in a not-the-most-diverse community) on whether an item is potentially offensive to a minority is a somewhat problematic methodology. (That we have done in the past for Beefy Miracle, so... I may be a hypocrite.)
Bill
In Fedora as in life , someone is always going to take umbrage. Get a wider audience the user list, ask Fedora, etc..
On Tue, 2013-11-19 at 23:00 -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote:
Adam Williamson (awilliam@redhat.com) said:
FWIW, it doesn't look remotely like one to me or anyone else currently discussing it in #fedora-devel.
While I do not want to overrule any decisions made, I would like to note that asking for self-selected opinions (in a not-the-most-diverse community) on whether an item is potentially offensive to a minority is a somewhat problematic methodology. (That we have done in the past for Beefy Miracle, so... I may be a hypocrite.)
well, so far as I can tell, at least two of the people who've so far said they can't possibly make out a swastika are jewish, so...
On Nov 19, 2013, at 6:27 PM, Ed Greshko Ed.Greshko@greshko.com wrote:
I see a closeup of 200 count Egyptian cotton weave. I could in no why, no matter how hard I tried or squinted, see anything close to a swastika.
I thought about asking the OP for a tracing to make it easier for me to find. But after 4-5 minutes of looking at it, I definitely see a pizza… with the face of Jesus on it. And not the Jesus who puts food on the table, I mean the Jewish one.
On Nov 19, 2013, at 10:13 PM, Adam Williamson awilliam@redhat.com wrote:
On Tue, 2013-11-19 at 23:00 -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote:
While I do not want to overrule any decisions made, I would like to note that asking for self-selected opinions (in a not-the-most-diverse community) on whether an item is potentially offensive to a minority is a somewhat problematic methodology. (That we have done in the past for Beefy Miracle, so... I may be a hypocrite.)
well, so far as I can tell, at least two of the people who've so far said they can't possibly make out a swastika are jewish, so…
I'm a gay, gays were among the many victims of the Nazis. Do I somehow have better visual acuity to locate swastikas? Fine, I'll use my 21st century gay powers to put this issue to rest. You've now got two Jews and a homo saying they don't see this thing.
Nevertheless, I think we really do need at least a 2nd and 3rd person, anyone, even Mr. Super White Straight non-Jew Male, see this thing also. It's either there or it isn't, and it's not like Nazism is exactly an ideology that works subliminally and subtly either. The context matters, and I see neither the context present nor its symbol.
On Nov 20, 2013, at 5:36 AM, Dennis Jacobfeuerborn dennisml@conversis.de wrote:
Probably related to this: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/concern_troll
I think we shouldn't accuse people of trolling unless they're clearly trolling. (i.e. don't resort to play ground name calling unless you've run out of logical arguments, and you can be funny rather than be a dick when resorting to it)
Chris Murphy
On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 8:45 AM, Chris Murphy lists@colorremedies.comwrote:
On Nov 19, 2013, at 6:27 PM, Ed Greshko Ed.Greshko@greshko.com wrote:
I see a closeup of 200 count Egyptian cotton weave. I could in no why,
no matter how hard I tried or squinted, see anything close to a swastika.
I thought about asking the OP for a tracing to make it easier for me to find. But after 4-5 minutes of looking at it, I definitely see a pizza… with the face of Jesus on it. And not the Jesus who puts food on the table, I mean the Jewish one.
On Nov 19, 2013, at 10:13 PM, Adam Williamson awilliam@redhat.com wrote:
On Tue, 2013-11-19 at 23:00 -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote:
While I do not want to overrule any decisions made, I would like to note that asking for self-selected opinions (in a not-the-most-diverse
community)
on whether an item is potentially offensive to a minority is a somewhat problematic methodology. (That we have done in the past for Beefy
Miracle,
so... I may be a hypocrite.)
well, so far as I can tell, at least two of the people who've so far said they can't possibly make out a swastika are jewish, so…
I'm a gay, gays were among the many victims of the Nazis. Do I somehow have better visual acuity to locate swastikas? Fine, I'll use my 21st century gay powers to put this issue to rest. You've now got two Jews and a homo saying they don't see this thing.
Nevertheless, I think we really do need at least a 2nd and 3rd person, anyone, even Mr. Super White Straight non-Jew Male, see this thing also. It's either there or it isn't, and it's not like Nazism is exactly an ideology that works subliminally and subtly either. The context matters, and I see neither the context present nor its symbol.
On Nov 20, 2013, at 5:36 AM, Dennis Jacobfeuerborn dennisml@conversis.de wrote:
Probably related to this: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/concern_troll
I think we shouldn't accuse people of trolling unless they're clearly trolling. (i.e. don't resort to play ground name calling unless you've run out of logical arguments, and you can be funny rather than be a dick when resorting to it)
Chris Murphy
I think I should retract my statement about removing it because of a "swastika" looking graphic. I made the comment in references in order to be kind to people. I strongly agree that it the resemblance to a Nazi symbol lacks any recognition, yet completely understand the reference. I'm sorry that I piped up.
On Tue, 19 Nov 2013 11:25:52 -0800 James Patterson jamespatterson@operamail.com wrote:
Hello,
I noticed the new Fedora 20 wallpaper looks like a swastika. It would be great if it didn't for the final release, it would upset a few people.
Are you Jewish or German, serious question? If neither why do you presume they are all blind and deaf?
When we hear from same it can then be removed. Please lets not tell others "how they think"
On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 9:25 PM, James Patterson jamespatterson@operamail.com wrote:
Hello,
I noticed the new Fedora 20 wallpaper looks like a swastika. It would be great if it didn't for the final release, it would upset a few people.
I filed a bug here under wallpapers, but moved it to distro since it's a policy decision: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1030643
Hi,
I do see the swastika, but it you I doubt that I would have seen it unless I knew what I was looking for. In my view, given the fact that the image was never designed to resemble the swastika, there's no reason to change it.
... Just to be safe, we can always add a small Israeli flag on the bottom right :P
- Gilboa (Note: I'm Jewish and Israeli :))
On Čt, 2013-11-21 at 07:57 +0200, Gilboa Davara wrote:
On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 9:25 PM, James Patterson jamespatterson@operamail.com wrote:
Hello,
I noticed the new Fedora 20 wallpaper looks like a swastika. It would be great if it didn't for the final release, it would upset a few people.
I filed a bug here under wallpapers, but moved it to distro since it's a policy decision: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1030643
Hi,
I do see the swastika, but it you I doubt that I would have seen it unless I knew what I was looking for. In my view, given the fact that the image was never designed to resemble the swastika, there's no reason to change it.
Hi,
I'm trying to see swastika there but I haven't been able to do so. There is nothing what could be interpreted as swastika. Can someone draw it and send a picture? I think that this thread is totally insane and sad. But it is probably because people always tend to see things they don't like everywhere (like conspiracies).
Petr Schindler
... Just to be safe, we can always add a small Israeli flag on the bottom right :P
- Gilboa
(Note: I'm Jewish and Israeli :))
On 21 November 2013 07:12, Petr Schindler pschindl@redhat.com wrote:
On Čt, 2013-11-21 at 07:57 +0200, Gilboa Davara wrote:
On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 9:25 PM, James Patterson jamespatterson@operamail.com wrote:
Hello,
I noticed the new Fedora 20 wallpaper looks like a swastika. It would be great if it didn't for the final release, it would upset a few people.
I filed a bug here under wallpapers, but moved it to distro since it's a policy decision: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1030643
Hi,
I do see the swastika, but it you I doubt that I would have seen it unless I knew what I was looking for. In my view, given the fact that the image was never designed to resemble the swastika, there's no reason to change it.
Hi,
I'm trying to see swastika there but I haven't been able to do so. There is nothing what could be interpreted as swastika. Can someone draw it and send a picture? I think that this thread is totally insane and sad. But it is probably because people always tend to see things they don't like everywhere (like conspiracies).
I'm not convinced having a copy with a swastika drawn on it floating around is a good solution to this problem. There are intersecting diagonal lines, it doesn't have the characteristic rotational symmetry (which made it such a common symbol before it was appropriated). If you stare at it long enough you can try and invent the necessary arms, but really if we've got lots of people looking at this trying to see something and failing then it's not there. Or you're going to have to ban diagonals from all future wallpapers.
Not really seeing the H either.
I think that it doesn't look like a swastika, but I can understand why some people think they see it in the picture. The orientation is wrong for the Nazi symbol. Since the context of fedora is about the absolute opposite of the Nazi philosophy and the old symbol is also a good one (the one the Nazi copied from) I don't see why we should not use this picture.
I am a Jew and Israeli if it matters for the discussion.
On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 12:39 PM, Ian Malone ibmalone@gmail.com wrote:
On 21 November 2013 07:12, Petr Schindler pschindl@redhat.com wrote:
On Čt, 2013-11-21 at 07:57 +0200, Gilboa Davara wrote:
On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 9:25 PM, James Patterson jamespatterson@operamail.com wrote:
Hello,
I noticed the new Fedora 20 wallpaper looks like a swastika. It would
be
great if it didn't for the final release, it would upset a few people.
I filed a bug here under wallpapers, but moved it to distro since
it's a
policy decision: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1030643
Hi,
I do see the swastika, but it you I doubt that I would have seen it unless I knew what I was looking for. In my view, given the fact that the image was never designed to resemble the swastika, there's no reason to change it.
Hi,
I'm trying to see swastika there but I haven't been able to do so. There is nothing what could be interpreted as swastika. Can someone draw it and send a picture? I think that this thread is totally insane and sad. But it is probably because people always tend to see things they don't like everywhere (like conspiracies).
I'm not convinced having a copy with a swastika drawn on it floating around is a good solution to this problem. There are intersecting diagonal lines, it doesn't have the characteristic rotational symmetry (which made it such a common symbol before it was appropriated). If you stare at it long enough you can try and invent the necessary arms, but really if we've got lots of people looking at this trying to see something and failing then it's not there. Or you're going to have to ban diagonals from all future wallpapers.
Not really seeing the H either.
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On Nov 21, 2013, at 12:12 AM, Petr Schindler pschindl@redhat.com wrote:
Can someone draw it and send a picture?
I've done some image manipulation to significantly posterize the image and invert the colors in order to enhance what little contrast the image has, to try and find it. What I've got is still something totally unlike a swastika. If you consider each 'arm' as two line, total of 8 lines, the wall paper has only 6. But those six have different widths and lengths, and therefore not all of them equally qualify as arms. Two arms only have one line each, and need imaginary lines drawn to complete the required eight lines.
I'm confident saying that everyone who sees a swastika is imagining it, because imagining two significant components is required, since they don't exist. And also the person would have to ignore the wrong ratios of the other elements.
Chris Murphy