10:16 a.m.
so here's my sob story... a bit more detail this time..
if I do an up2date -u --nosig everything works fine...
sometimes...
the exception seems to be when a new package is available
for a package I have installed, but the new package has a
new dependency that I have NOT met previously...
Also, I have the problem when I use up2date <packagename>
to install a package I do NOT already have, and that package
has dependencies that I don't already have...
If I figure out what rpm's I need to meet the dependencies
before I do it (I can use up2date to get them if they don't
have dependencies of their own) then all is well...
emptying out /var/spool/up2date does me no good either, btw,
tho I do it anyway out of habit now...
to clarify further, the only problem I've run into is the
issue of up2date bonking at the dependency checking phase...
other than that, up2date seems to be working fine, at least
for me...
hope that helps!
-jbm sends
p.s. - is there gonna be a channel on RHN for Fedora Core
when the general release is done? I blew $500 of my
employers money a month ago to buy enterprise entitlements
for RH9, and it feels like I've wasted the money if I can't
keep them up on the latest release...
I know they want me to buy RHEL, but I just can justify
that for mail gateways and dns servers...
maybe they could add a rawhide channel to RHN?
12:11 p.m.
New subject: Up2Date still having problems...
On Wed, 2003-10-29 at 11:16, Josh McKenna wrote:
if I do an up2date -u --nosig everything works fine...
sometimes...
the exception seems to be when a new package is available
for a package I have installed, but the new package has a
new dependency that I have NOT met previously...
I think I just described my fix to someone else on the list, but in case
you missed it... I keep a local FTP/HTTP mirror of both the base distro
(severn3/FC-0.95) and rawhide. Rawhide gets updated via rsync roughly
nightly. I use the same cron job as the rsync update to also do a
yum-arch to rewrite the yum repo headers. (The yum headers for the base
distro obviously only needed to be written once since they don't
change.)
My clients use yum to point to both of those sources, "base" and
"rawhide". As a result, up2date works perfectly here -- well, at least
as far as this issue goes.
p.s. - is there gonna be a channel on RHN for Fedora Core
when the general release is done? I blew $500 of my
employers money a month ago to buy enterprise entitlements
for RH9, and it feels like I've wasted the money if I can't
keep them up on the latest release...
I know there are Red Hat employees on this list, but to save their
valuable time, and not to assume any kind of mantle, I think the answer
to your question is probably a resounding "no." RHN is a paid service
and RH is pretty smart to conserve their bandwidth for their paying
customers. FC customers will largely be the "freebie" base. There's no
reason why their current rawhide support has to stop (i.e. the yum
repo[s]), but I would imagine keeping rawhide out of RHN allows them to
do some fairly fancy netfilter footwork, to ensure that RHN customers
always trump us freeloaders. (No bitterness intended, I fully agree with
them if this is the case.)
Remember that your entitlements still get you patch support and
enterprise-type management options that you simply don't have with
Fedora Core. "Keeping [systems] up on the latest release" is not why you
pay for entitlements; they give you support and/or management options
you don't have otherwise.
I know they want me to buy RHEL, but I just can justify
that for mail gateways and dns servers...
Then Fedora Core, along with the increasing number of yum/apt
repositories, might serve you fine. Keep in mind the point of the Fedora
Project, and its origins -- over time, it's probably reasonable to think
Fedora Core relases could happen even faster than those under the Red
Hat Linux banner. A review of the project site at
http://fedora.redhat.com might be useful.
Of course, only you can weigh the security repercussions of your
decisions on your company's IT infrastructure. If you feel comfortable,
given its mission and timetables, with using Fedora Core (or an older
EOL Red Hat Linux product) in the capacities you describe, that's your
prerogative. Remember that in terms of "free-of-cost" distros, Fedora
Core and Red Hat Linux 9 are only two of many alternatives for someone
who is a skilled and security-educated administrator.
The entire foregoing is my $0.02 and is subject to your personal rate of
exchange. :-)
maybe they could add a rawhide channel to RHN?
See above, best of luck, and cheers.
--
Paul W. Frields <paul(a)frields.com>
12:47 p.m.
New subject: Up2Date still having problems...
--- "Paul W. Frields" <paul(a)frields.com> wrote:
On Wed, 2003-10-29 at 11:16, Josh McKenna wrote:
> p.s. - is there gonna be a channel on RHN for
Fedora Core
> when the general release is done? I blew $500 of
my
> employers money a month ago to buy enterprise
entitlements
> for RH9, and it feels like I've wasted the money
if I can't
> keep them up on the latest release...
I know there are Red Hat employees on this list, but
to save their
valuable time, and not to assume any kind of mantle,
I think the answer
to your question is probably a resounding "no." RHN
is a paid service
and RH is pretty smart to conserve their bandwidth
for their paying
customers.
RHN isn't totally a paid service; up through RH 9 a
demo service was allowed (with the "price" being the
filling out of surveys every 60 days). Of course, the
paying customers got more bandwidth.
If there is are no Fedora plans for a Fedora RHN, then
rhn_applet and rhn_register should have not even made
it to the first beta, let alone the third.
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1:22 p.m.
New subject: Up2Date still having problems...
On Wed, 2003-10-29 at 13:47, James J. Ramsey wrote:
> > p.s. - is there gonna be a channel on RHN for
> Fedora Core
> > when the general release is done? I blew $500 of
> my
> > employers money a month ago to buy enterprise
> entitlements
> > for RH9, and it feels like I've wasted the money
> if I can't
> > keep them up on the latest release...
>
> I know there are Red Hat employees on this list, but
> to save their
> valuable time, and not to assume any kind of mantle,
> I think the answer
> to your question is probably a resounding "no." RHN
> is a paid service
> and RH is pretty smart to conserve their bandwidth
> for their paying
> customers.
RHN isn't totally a paid service; up through RH 9 a
demo service was allowed (with the "price" being the
filling out of surveys every 60 days). Of course, the
paying customers got more bandwidth.
If there is are no Fedora plans for a Fedora RHN, then
rhn_applet and rhn_register should have not even made
it to the first beta, let alone the third.
First let me say that I got just a little muddled there. I actually use
a Demo account for some RHL 9 boxes I have, also, and that should have
occurred to me as I was writing. Nevertheless, rhn_applet as part of the
overall up2date package isn't only useful for RHN enabled boxes. It
works fine for clients on a local, isolated network I have at work,
where I have to SneakerNet updates to a yum repo I use there; I simply
remove the serverURL value and they get instant up2date goodness.
As for rhn_register, since it also is part of the overall up2date
package, there's no real reason for it to "go away" in FC just because
those folks might not be using it. After all, the FC distro is the basis
for RHEL, and it would take an unnecessary effort to remove it
especially from FC.
--
Paul W. Frields <paul(a)frields.com>
1:24 p.m.
New subject: Up2Date still having problems...
James J. Ramsey said:
If there is are no Fedora plans for a Fedora RHN, then
rhn_applet and rhn_register should have not even made
it to the first beta, let alone the third.
rhn_applet can (and as shipped it Test 3 does, IIRC) look at yum
repositories for updates.
Looking in the archives gives the indication that at least for the first
FC release it was planned to have a RHN channel for errata. I don't know
if that has changed or not.
--
William Hooper
1:42 p.m.
New subject: Up2Date still having problems...
On Wed, 2003-10-29 at 14:24, William Hooper wrote:
Looking in the archives gives the indication that at least for the
first
FC release it was planned to have a RHN channel for errata. I don't know
if that has changed or not.
It might be interesting here to note that RHN had channels for FC-0.93
and FC-0.94 (under one name or another), but none for FC-0.95 -- this
was obviated by the availability of the HTTP rawhide yum repo. In any
case, I would call all this conjecture moot because as long as one can
rsync the updates and create the yum headers oneself, there's no point
in expecting Red Hat to fill that need. Certainly many other intrepid
and charitable folks already have and will continue to do so. Once
again, they've given us all the tools we need to take up the banner, so
to speak.
--
Paul W. Frields <paul(a)frields.com>
3:32 p.m.
New subject: Up2Date still having problems...
--- "Paul W. Frields" <paul(a)frields.com> wrote:
On Wed, 2003-10-29 at 14:24, William Hooper wrote:
> Looking in the archives gives the indication that
at least for the first
> FC release it was planned to have a RHN channel
for errata. I don't know
> if that has changed or not.
It might be interesting here to note that RHN had
channels for FC-0.93
and FC-0.94 (under one name or another), but none
for FC-0.95 -- this
was obviated by the availability of the HTTP rawhide
yum repo.
Rawhide is good for updating betas, but terrible as a
repository for stable updates. I hope there is at
least some way of getting ordinary straight-up
security updates, whether via RHN or a YUM channel.
What I wonder is how come the blue checkmark in the
RHN applet never turns red when updates are available?
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4:36 p.m.
New subject: Up2Date still having problems...
On Wed, 2003-10-29 at 16:32, James J. Ramsey wrote:
Rawhide is good for updating betas, but terrible as a
repository for stable updates. I hope there is at
least some way of getting ordinary straight-up
security updates, whether via RHN or a YUM channel.
Like I mentioned, you should expect the fedora.us site and many others
to carry this sort of thing, probably Red Hat too for that matter. It
may not be part of RHN though; just a yum repository (and/or apt).
What I wonder is how come the blue checkmark in the
RHN applet never turns red when updates are available?
Must be a local configuration problem on your end; mine works fine on my
net-connected testing box. Have you checked your
/etc/sysconfig/rhn/sources? Check the archive for hints if necessary.
Cheers,
--
Paul W. Frields, RHCE
5:08 p.m.
New subject: Up2Date still having problems...
--- "Paul W. Frields" <paul(a)frields.com> wrote:
On Wed, 2003-10-29 at 16:32, James J. Ramsey wrote:
> What I wonder is how come the blue checkmark in
the
> RHN applet never turns red when updates are
available?
Must be a local configuration problem on your end;
mine works fine on my
net-connected testing box. Have you checked your
/etc/sysconfig/rhn/sources? Check the archive for
hints if necessary.
FWIW, there's only one line in
/etc/sysconfig/rhn/sources that isn't a comment:
yum rawhide
http://ftp.redhat.com/pub/redhat/linux/rawhide/
(That's all on one line.)
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9:08 a.m.
New subject: Up2Date still having problems...
On Wed, 2003-10-29 at 18:08, James J. Ramsey wrote:
> > What I wonder is how come the blue checkmark in
> the
> > RHN applet never turns red when updates are
> available?
>
> Must be a local configuration problem on your end;
> mine works fine on my
> net-connected testing box. Have you checked your
> /etc/sysconfig/rhn/sources? Check the archive for
> hints if necessary.
FWIW, there's only one line in
/etc/sysconfig/rhn/sources that isn't a comment:
yum rawhide
http://ftp.redhat.com/pub/redhat/linux/rawhide/
Same as mine. There is a designated check-in interval in
/etc/sysconfig/rhn/rhnsd, usually 240 (minutes)... mine was working this
morning per usual. Perhaps someone else has some ideas. I would take
this to fedora-list instead as it doesn't seem to be bug related. Good
luck and cheers.
--
Paul W. Frields, RHCE
9:39 a.m.
New subject: Up2Date still having problems...
On Thu, Oct 30, 2003 at 10:08:32AM -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote:
On Wed, 2003-10-29 at 18:08, James J. Ramsey wrote:
> > > What I wonder is how come the blue checkmark in
> > the
> > > RHN applet never turns red when updates are
> > available?
> >
> > Must be a local configuration problem on your end;
> > mine works fine on my
> > net-connected testing box. Have you checked your
> > /etc/sysconfig/rhn/sources? Check the archive for
> > hints if necessary.
>
> FWIW, there's only one line in
> /etc/sysconfig/rhn/sources that isn't a comment:
>
> yum rawhide
> http://ftp.redhat.com/pub/redhat/linux/rawhide/
Same as mine. There is a designated check-in interval in
/etc/sysconfig/rhn/rhnsd, usually 240 (minutes)... mine was working this
morning per usual. Perhaps someone else has some ideas. I would take
this to fedora-list instead as it doesn't seem to be bug related. Good
luck and cheers.
Well I have seen this behaviour too, I need to investigate it because
sometimes it just work as it should and other time the check seems to miss
some updates. I need to debug this, I think this was already reported
on bugzilla.
Daniel
--
Daniel Veillard | Red Hat Network https://rhn.redhat.com/
veillard(a)redhat.com | libxml GNOME XML XSLT toolkit http://xmlsoft.org/
http://veillard.com/ | Rpmfind RPM search engine http://rpmfind.net/
9:44 a.m.
New subject: Up2Date still having problems...
--- "Paul W. Frields" <paul(a)frields.com> wrote:
On Wed, 2003-10-29 at 18:08, James J. Ramsey wrote:
Same as mine. There is a designated check-in
interval in
/etc/sysconfig/rhn/rhnsd, usually 240 (minutes)...
mine was working this
morning per usual.
My RHN applet is working now. Go figure.
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2:22 a.m.
New subject: Up2Date looses installed packages during update (showstopper?)
I used up2date yesterday and it had to update about 20 packages.
During it installation of kernel-source up2date died because it could
not install the package. The problem now is, that all packages that
where to be installed after kernel-source are de-installed!
Now, on my system openoffice and, of course, kernel-source are missing!
There were another 10 packages that might not be there, but
unfortunately I updated in a console window so there is no scrollback
buffer available to find out what other packages are missing.
I can live with this happening during the test-phase of fedora, but I
think this is a showstopper for production!
Michael
I've entered a bug in bugzilla. ID is 108691
3:40 a.m.
New subject: Up2Date looses installed packages during update (showstopper?)
michael-ring(a)t-online.de (Michael Ring) writes:
Now, on my system openoffice and, of course, kernel-source are
missing! There were another 10 packages that might not be there, but
unfortunately I updated in a console window so there is no scrollback
buffer available to find out what other packages are missing.
Just a side note: You can look at /var/log/rpmpkgs
Or one of its rotated logs to see what was installed before.
8:16 a.m.
New subject: Up2Date looses installed packages during update (showstopper?)
On Fri, Oct 31, 2003 at 09:22:50AM +0100, Michael Ring wrote:
I used up2date yesterday and it had to update about 20 packages.
During it installation of kernel-source up2date died because it could
not install the package. The problem now is, that all packages that
where to be installed after kernel-source are de-installed!
Now, on my system openoffice and, of course, kernel-source are missing!
There were another 10 packages that might not be there, but
unfortunately I updated in a console window so there is no scrollback
buffer available to find out what other packages are missing.
/var/log/rpmpkgs* tell you what packages you used to have installed.
michaelkjohnson
"He that composes himself is wiser than he that composes a book."
Linux Application Development -- Ben Franklin
http://people.redhat.com/johnsonm/lad/
10:17 a.m.
New subject: Up2Date looses installed packages during update (showstopper?)
On Fri, 2003-10-31 at 03:22, Michael Ring wrote:
I used up2date yesterday and it had to update about 20 packages.
During it installation of kernel-source up2date died because it could
not install the package. The problem now is, that all packages that
where to be installed after kernel-source are de-installed!
[...snip...]
I've entered a bug in bugzilla. ID is 108691
This looks closely related to my bug #108652, rather than the one it was
marked as duplicating in bugzilla. I added a comment in the hopes that
someone will see that this (and many of the other up2date problems that
keep reappearing on the list) could be taken care of by simply adding an
extra modicum of sanity checking during the process.
--
Paul W. Frields, RHCE
10:54 a.m.
New subject: Up2Date looses ..... / yum-rep
On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, Paul W. Frields wrote:
On Fri, 2003-10-31 at 03:22, Michael Ring wrote:
> I used up2date yesterday and it had to update about 20 packages.
> During it installation of kernel-source up2date died because it could
> not install the package. The problem now is, that all packages that
> where to be installed after kernel-source are de-installed!
[...snip...]
> I've entered a bug in bugzilla. ID is 108691
This looks closely related to my bug #108652, rather than the one it was
marked as duplicating in bugzilla. I added a comment in the hopes that
someone will see that this (and many of the other up2date problems that
keep reappearing on the list) could be taken care of by simply adding an
extra modicum of sanity checking during the process.
Looks like all these issues are due to the mirrors (including
ftp.redhat.com) not having a consistant yum repository (i.e
headers/header.info not in sysc with the *.rpm files available on the
mirror .)
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=107972
The correct fix - I think, is to change the process with which
ftp.redhat.com is updated.
I suspect there is a local machine where rawhide rpms are updated -
and header.info is re-generated for. But somehow header.info is
rsynced to ftp.redhat.com - but not all the rpm packages. (perhaps
i386/header packages are rsynced every 3 hours - but not the s390x -
which get rsynced once every day?) - thus resulting in inconistancy on
the ftp site.
This inconsistancy gets propagated to all mirrors.
Satish
11:53 a.m.
New subject: Up2Date looses ..... / yum-rep
On Fri, 2003-10-31 at 11:54, Satish Balay wrote:
> > I used up2date yesterday and it had to update about 20
packages.
> > During it installation of kernel-source up2date died because it could
> > not install the package. The problem now is, that all packages that
> > where to be installed after kernel-source are de-installed!
> [...snip...]
> > I've entered a bug in bugzilla. ID is 108691
>
> This looks closely related to my bug #108652, rather than the one it was
> marked as duplicating in bugzilla. I added a comment in the hopes that
> someone will see that this (and many of the other up2date problems that
> keep reappearing on the list) could be taken care of by simply adding an
> extra modicum of sanity checking during the process.
Looks like all these issues are due to the mirrors (including
ftp.redhat.com) not having a consistant yum repository (i.e
headers/header.info not in sysc with the *.rpm files available on the
mirror .)
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=107972
The correct fix - I think, is to change the process with which
ftp.redhat.com is updated.
While I completely agree that the proximate cause is on the server side,
this doesn't help the casual user who suddenly ends up with a broken
box, where packages are suddenly missing and the dependency tree is now
broken. Fixing the client to use a little bit of common sense to avoid
disaster is also a good idea, especially since it involves a minimum of
fuss.
--
Paul W. Frields, RHCE
12:15 p.m.
New subject: Up2Date looses ..... / yum-rep
--- "Paul W. Frields" <paul(a)frields.com> wrote:
>
> The correct fix - I think, is to change the
process with which
> ftp.redhat.com is updated.
While I completely agree that the proximate cause is
on the server side,
this doesn't help the casual user who suddenly ends
up with a broken
box, where packages are suddenly missing and the
dependency tree is now
broken. Fixing the client to use a little bit of
common sense to avoid
disaster is also a good idea, especially since it
involves a minimum of
fuss.
I agree. up2date needs to do enough sanity checking so
that if it gets bogus RPMS, headers, etc., it can do
something intelligent like tell the user that
something is wrong at the server end--so that they can
complain to Red Hat sooner. :) Having up2date
mysteriously hang and/or spew inscrutable tracebacks
(that only appear if one launches up2date from a
terminal) just makes problems harder to resolve.
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7483
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7485
days old
18 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
Daniel Veillard -
Harry Putnam -
James J. Ramsey -
Josh McKenna -
Michael K. Johnson -
Michael Ring -
Paul W. Frields -
Satish Balay -
William Hooper