can't install base system using CD 1

[Mikel Ward]

Hi

I just tried to install the Fedora 10 i386 preview using only the first CD.

Even after going to "customize packages now" and deselecting all
non-essential packages, including Office and Productivity on the first
screen, and then all the boxes not under Base System on the second
screen (e.g. GNOME Desktop, Graphical Internet, Editors, Graphics,
etc, etc.), it still told me I needed CD 1 and CD 2, and I could not
go back.

This left me with a re-formatted root partition and no bootable OS.

Please take steps to ensure at least the base operating system
packages are all available on CD 1.

Thanks

Mike

[Scott Robbins]

On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 06:19:16PM +1100, Mikel Ward wrote:
>  Hi
>  
>  I just tried to install the Fedora 10 i386 preview using only the first CD.
>  
>  Even after going to "customize packages now" and deselecting all
>  non-essential packages, including Office and Productivity on the first
>  screen, and then all the boxes not under Base System on the second
>  screen (e.g. GNOME Desktop, Graphical Internet, Editors, Graphics,
>  etc, etc.), it still told me I needed CD 1 and CD 2, and I could not
>  go back. 
Untested but--I believe you also have to uncheck the base system to only
use CD 1.  That is, or at least was, the case in CentOS.  

Again, in CentOS, this will mean that among other things, yum doesn't
get installed, though it's easily added from the packages on the first
CD.  I don't remember if ethernet worked or not, but IIRC, that could
also be fixed with rpms on the first CD.

The only reason I'm mentioning this untested, possibly quite wrong
advice is because judging from your sentence below, 

>  
>  This left me with a re-formatted root partition and no bootable OS. 
it won't make things any worse and might give you the chance to fix it. 


>  
>  Please take steps to ensure at least the base operating system
>  packages are all available on CD 1. 
There is always the option of the live CD.   Fewer and fewer
distributions though, seem to be putting an installable system on one
CD, vs. a live CD that allows you to install but doesn't give you a
chance to really customize your package selection.  
   

-- 
Scott Robbins
PGP keyID EB3467D6
( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6

Buffy: You're a vampire. Oh, I'm sorry. Was that an offensive 
term? Should I say undead American?

[shmuel siegel]

Mikel Ward wrote:
>  Hi
>
>  I just tried to install the Fedora 10 i386 preview using only the first CD.
>
>  Even after going to "customize packages now" and deselecting all
>  non-essential packages, including Office and Productivity on the first
>  screen, and then all the boxes not under Base System on the second
>  screen (e.g. GNOME Desktop, Graphical Internet, Editors, Graphics,
>  etc, etc.), it still told me I needed CD 1 and CD 2, and I could not
>  go back.
>
>  This left me with a re-formatted root partition and no bootable OS.
>
>  Please take steps to ensure at least the base operating system
>  packages are all available on CD 1.
>
>  Thanks
>
>  Mike
>
>     
It would seem from your description that the install scenario should be 
as follows:

1) Select a set of packages.
2) Advise as to which CDs are required for the install
2a) Give user option to return to selection criteria
2b) Don't alter the disk until the user accepts the install scenario
3) Follow the computed install script

Are you complaining that step 2a didn't exist or are you complaining 
that after step 3 starts there is no turning back.

[Mikel Ward]

>  Are you complaining that step 2a didn't exist 
Yes, it would be nice if partitions weren't formatted until I'd been
able to select packages and confirm I had the necessary media, but
that's a secondary concern.

My real concern is that it should be possible to install from a single
CD if that's all I have.  If that means a reduced set of packages, or
going out to a Yum repository, then that's fine by me.

[Mads Kiilerich]

Mikel Ward wrote, On 11/23/2008 10:14 AM:
>  My real concern is that it should be possible to install from a
> single
>  CD if that's all I have.  If that means a reduced set of packages, or
>  going out to a Yum repository, then that's fine by me.
>     
Obviously it isn't possible to install from _any_ cd. It must be the 
_right_ cd. I think the install image from 
ftp://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/development/i386/os/ima... 
can do what you request, using the http installation method for 
downloading directly from a yum repo. You can probably also choose that 
method from your existing boot cd somehow.

But I haven't tried recently and can't find it mentioned anywhere. So 
perhaps there is a documentation problem...

/Mads

[Antonio Olivares]

--- On Sun, 11/23/08, Mikel Ward <mikel(a)mikelward.com&gt; wrote:

>  From: Mikel Ward <mikel(a)mikelward.com&gt;
>  Subject: Re: can't install base system using CD 1
>  To: "For testers of Fedora Core development releases"
> <fedora-test-list(a)redhat.com&gt;
>  Date: Sunday, November 23, 2008, 1:14 AM
>  > Are you complaining that step 2a didn't exist
>  
>  Yes, it would be nice if partitions weren't formatted
>  until I'd been
>  able to select packages and confirm I had the necessary
>  media, but
>  that's a secondary concern.
>  
>  My real concern is that it should be possible to install
>  from a single
>  CD if that's all I have.  If that means a reduced set
>  of packages, or
>  going out to a Yum repository, then that's fine by me.
>  
>  --  
It is possible to install from one cd, the LiveCD's.  Choose your custom one/preferred
one.  Check the download mirrors.  There is no need to get all of the cd's if all you
are interested in can be done from the livecd.

Regards,

Antonio

[Michael Francis]

Check the batch of dvds that you are using to do the burn with every dvd is
not created equal. Test and try.

On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 2:19 AM, Mikel Ward <mikel(a)mikelward.com&gt; wrote:

>  Hi
>
>  I just tried to install the Fedora 10 i386 preview using only the first CD.
>
>  Even after going to "customize packages now" and deselecting all
>  non-essential packages, including Office and Productivity on the first
>  screen, and then all the boxes not under Base System on the second
>  screen (e.g. GNOME Desktop, Graphical Internet, Editors, Graphics,
>  etc, etc.), it still told me I needed CD 1 and CD 2, and I could not
>  go back.
>
>  This left me with a re-formatted root partition and no bootable OS.
>
>  Please take steps to ensure at least the base operating system
>  packages are all available on CD 1.
>
>  Thanks
>
>  Mike
>
>  --
>  fedora-test-list mailing list
>  fedora-test-list(a)redhat.com
>  To unsubscribe:
>  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-test-list
>

[Leam Hall]

On Sun, 2008-11-23 at 20:14 +1100, Mikel Ward wrote:
>  My real concern is that it should be possible to install from a
> single
>  CD if that's all I have.  If that means a reduced set of packages, or
>  going out to a Yum repository, then that's fine by me.
>   
Agreed, the "Base Install" is still pretty bloated, http installs assume
your network driver is on the install CD, and the other methods assume
you have a pre-existing infrastructure. 

Since we used to install from floppies, I bet we can get back to a lean
"Base" that allows a high level of user customization based on what they
plan on doing with the computer.

Leam

[Jesse Keating]

On Mon, 2008-11-24 at 04:43 -0500, Leam Hall wrote:
>  Agreed, the "Base Install" is still pretty bloated, http
> installs assume
>  your network driver is on the install CD, and the other methods assume
>  you have a pre-existing infrastructure. 
>  
>  Since we used to install from floppies, I bet we can get back to a lean
>  "Base" that allows a high level of user customization based on what they
>  plan on doing with the computer. 
The use of "Base" here is overloaded.  There are two important groups in
Fedora installs, there is the Core group, which is not visible to end
users, and there is the Base group, which is.  Core group gives you a
system that will boot a kernel and run init scripts and provide you a
login shell.  The base group adds to that functionality such as
obtaining a DHCP address, installing more packages via yum, and so on.
If you deselect every group from the installer UI, including the Base
group, you are given a "minimal" install of just the core group, and as
of last testing (the F10 release) it only requires the first CD of a
split CD set.

-- 
Jesse Keating
Fedora -- Freedom² is a feature!
identi.ca: http://identi.ca/jkeating

[Jeroen van Meeuwen]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Jesse Keating wrote:
| On Mon, 2008-11-24 at 04:43 -0500, Leam Hall wrote:
|> Agreed, the "Base Install" is still pretty bloated, http installs assume
|> your network driver is on the install CD, and the other methods assume
|> you have a pre-existing infrastructure.
|>
|> Since we used to install from floppies, I bet we can get back to a lean
|> "Base" that allows a high level of user customization based on what they
|> plan on doing with the computer.
|
| The use of "Base" here is overloaded.  There are two important groups in
| Fedora installs, there is the Core group, which is not visible to end
| users, and there is the Base group, which is.  Core group gives you a
| system that will boot a kernel and run init scripts and provide you a
| login shell.  The base group adds to that functionality such as
| obtaining a DHCP address, installing more packages via yum, and so on.
| If you deselect every group from the installer UI, including the Base
| group, you are given a "minimal" install of just the core group, and as
| of last testing (the F10 release) it only requires the first CD of a
| split CD set.
|

@core and @base actually do fit on one disc, but it requires exclusive
dependency resolving during compose, or package ordering at least.

I'm going to try and enhance package ordering (during compose) so that
it does exclusive dependency resolving for these two groups and
inclusive dependency resolving for the other groups.

Kind regards,

Jeroen van Meeuwen
- -kanarip
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[Leam Hall]

>  | On Mon, 2008-11-24 at 04:43 -0500, Leam Hall wrote:
>  |> Agreed, the "Base Install" is still pretty bloated, http installs assume
>  |> your network driver is on the install CD, and the other methods assume
>  |> you have a pre-existing infrastructure. 
... 

>  Jesse Keating wrote: 
>  | The use of "Base" here is overloaded.  There are two
> important groups in
>  | Fedora installs, there is the Core group, which is not visible to end
>  | users, and there is the Base group, which is.  
...

>  Jeroen van Meeuwen wrote: 
>  I'm going to try and enhance package ordering (during compose) so
> that
>  it does exclusive dependency resolving for these two groups and
>  inclusive dependency resolving for the other groups. 
To be honest, the quick and easy fix may be to let the "Core" be visible
but not unselectable. That's where my confusion was, that "Base" meant
only what was needed to run the machine. 

If Core can build off one CD image and target the least amount of
packages that is needed to boot and login, then life will be good!

Here's my initial wish list for a Core system:

	Enough OS to turn on and log in via command line.
		RPM
		SSH/SCP/SFTP
		Generic Video and Network drivers
		ext2/3

	Nothing installed or turned on.

> From that minimal set we can let users either build an application
server with their own processes, or configure the box to their hearts
content. 
	
Leam

[Rares Aioanei]

On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 1:23 PM, Leam Hall <leam(a)reuel.net&gt; wrote:

>  > | On Mon, 2008-11-24 at 04:43 -0500, Leam Hall wrote:
>  > |> Agreed, the "Base Install" is still pretty bloated, http installs
>  assume
>  > |> your network driver is on the install CD, and the other methods assume
>  > |> you have a pre-existing infrastructure.
>
>  ...
>
>  > Jesse Keating wrote:
>
>  > | The use of "Base" here is overloaded.  There are two important groups
>  in
>  > | Fedora installs, there is the Core group, which is not visible to end
>  > | users, and there is the Base group, which is.
>
>  ...
>
>  > Jeroen van Meeuwen wrote:
>
>  > I'm going to try and enhance package ordering (during compose) so that
>  > it does exclusive dependency resolving for these two groups and
>  > inclusive dependency resolving for the other groups.
>
>  To be honest, the quick and easy fix may be to let the "Core" be visible
>  but not unselectable. That's where my confusion was, that "Base" meant
>  only what was needed to run the machine.
>
>  If Core can build off one CD image and target the least amount of
>  packages that is needed to boot and login, then life will be good!
>
>  Here's my initial wish list for a Core system:
>
>         Enough OS to turn on and log in via command line.
>                 RPM
>                 SSH/SCP/SFTP
>                 Generic Video and Network drivers
>                 ext2/3
>
>         Nothing installed or turned on.
>
>  >From that minimal set we can let users either build an application
>  server with their own processes, or configure the box to their hearts
>  content.
>
>  Leam
>
>
>  --
>  fedora-test-list mailing list
>  fedora-test-list(a)redhat.com
>  To unsubscribe:
>  https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-test-list
>  

I agree.
-- 
Aioanei Rares
schaiba(a)fedoraproject.org
"China is a big country, inhabited by many Chinese." --Charles de Gaulle