2011-01-24 @ 16:00UTC - Fedora QA meeting - call for topics

[James Laska]

# Fedora Quality Assurance Meeting
# Date: 2011-01-24
# Time: 16:00 UTC (11:00 EST, 17:00 CET) [1]
# Location: #fedora-meeting on irc.freenode.net

Greetings folks,

This is a reminder that we have a QA meeting scheduled every Monday at
16:00UTC.  If you are unable to make the meeting, but would like to see
an issue discussed, feel free to respond to the agenda with discussion
topics.  If no meeting topics have been proposed, we may choose to
cancel the meeting.

= Proposed agenda =

     1. Adjusting proventesters group to be invite-only
     2. Better living through automation ... autoqa
     3. Thu, Jan 27 Test Day -- Network device naming

Thanks,
James

[1]
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/UTCHowto#How_can_I_convert_...

[Jóhann B. Guðmundsson]

On 01/21/2011 07:09 PM, James Laska wrote:
>       1. Adjusting proventesters group to be invite-only 
I dont know who's bright idea this is but I think the QA community
should automatically scrape off any kind of "invite-only" ideas of the
tables since they eventually always lead to "social classes" being
formed an "Elite" who gets to pick who's on the team and so fourth and
so on which has negative impact on the QA community in whole and lead to
degrease in participation rather than increase.

Anyway failing to see the reasoning behind this beside perhaps the point
that it is to keep packagers/maintainers out as in prevent them from
altering the results on their own/each others updates which we should be
able to achieve with different means other than this if that's what's
being aimed for.

What's the problem trying to be fixed here?

JBG

[Kevin Fenzi]

On Sat, 22 Jan 2011 00:10:14 +0000
"Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" <johannbg(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:

>  On 01/21/2011 07:09 PM, James Laska wrote:
>  >      1. Adjusting proventesters group to be invite-only
>  
>  I dont know who's bright idea this 
Mine I guess... ;) 

>   is but I think the QA community
>  should automatically scrape off any kind of "invite-only" ideas of the
>  tables since they eventually always lead to "social classes" being
>  formed an "Elite" who gets to pick who's on the team and so fourth and
>  so on which has negative impact on the QA community in whole and lead
>  to degrease in participation rather than increase. 
The group is already essentially 'invite only', because people are
required to read the docs and tell a sponsor they have done so. 
Perhaps we could replace that with a checkbox or something? 
(Althought the current account system doesn't allow that that I know of)

>  Anyway failing to see the reasoning behind this beside perhaps the
>  point that it is to keep packagers/maintainers out as in prevent them
>  from altering the results on their own/each others updates which we
>  should be able to achieve with different means other than this if
>  that's what's being aimed for.
>  
>  What's the problem trying to be fixed here? 
People have found the group in the account system, applied there and
are waiting. They will wait forever until they file a ticket for a
sponsor to see them and ask if they have read the docs. If we set the
group invite only, they will see the link to the process there and
follow it without getting dropped between the cracks. 

kevin

[Jóhann B. Guðmundsson]

On 01/22/2011 12:17 AM, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> > What's the problem trying to be fixed here?
>  People have found the group in the account system, applied there and
>  are waiting. They will wait forever until they file a ticket for a
>  sponsor to see them and ask if they have read the docs. If we set the
>  group invite only, they will see the link to the process there and
>  follow it without getting dropped between the cracks. 
I see.

Is this not FAS problem as in the required  page should pop up to the 
applicant for reading before he can proceed to apply or the group admin 
aint doing his due diligence and regularly check the account for new 
applications and contact those that have applied.

By the way to the sponsors ever check if the applicant actually has read 
the documentation since if they dont then we might just as well turn 
that requirement off.

JBG

[Kevin Fenzi]

On Sat, 22 Jan 2011 00:37:17 +0000
"Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" <johannbg(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:

>  I see.
>  
>  Is this not FAS problem as in the required  page should pop up to the 
>  applicant for reading before he can proceed to apply or the group
>  admin aint doing his due diligence and regularly check the account
>  for new applications and contact those that have applied. 
There's no such ability currently in FAS to do that. ;) 
It can show a bit of text when someone looks at the group, but it can't
make them click through something. You can have people who request to
join the group send to the admin... I suppose thats another option, but
may result in a single point of failure. 

>  By the way to the sponsors ever check if the applicant actually has
>  read the documentation since if they dont then we might just as well
>  turn that requirement off. 
Well, how do you mean? Do they go to your house with a printed out copy
and wait while they watch you reading it? No. ;) 

They do ask if you have read it and expect a real positive reply. 

I think a FAS addition that allowed showing text and requiring a 'I
have read this' check would work great, unfortunately, it doesn't exist
currently. ;( 

kevin

[Jóhann B. Guðmundsson]

On 01/22/2011 09:27 PM, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
>  On Sat, 22 Jan 2011 00:37:17 +0000
>  "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson"<johannbg(a)gmail.com>  wrote:
>
> > I see.
> >
> > Is this not FAS problem as in the required  page should pop up to the
> > applicant for reading before he can proceed to apply or the group
> > admin aint doing his due diligence and regularly check the account
> > for new applications and contact those that have applied.
>  There's no such ability currently in FAS to do that. ;)
>  It can show a bit of text when someone looks at the group, but it can't
>  make them click through something. You can have people who request to
>  join the group send to the admin... I suppose thats another option, but
>  may result in a single point of failure.
>  
<snip>
..
</snip>
>  I think a FAS addition that allowed showing text and requiring a
> 'I
>  have read this' check would work great, unfortunately, it doesn't exist
>  currently. ;( 

I'm not sure which entity within the project is supposed to make sure 
that the infrastructure meets all the project needs but anyway work with 
the infrastructure/web site team or simply file a RFE/Bug here [1] to 
fix those limitations.

Implementing policy's to workaround limitation in our own infrastructure 
is doing things backwards is it not ;)

JBG

1. https://fedorahosted.org/fas/

[He Rui]

Greetings,

On Fri, 2011-01-21 at 14:09 -0500, James Laska wrote: 
>  # Fedora Quality Assurance Meeting
>  # Date: 2011-01-24
>  # Time: 16:00 UTC (11:00 EST, 17:00 CET) [1]
>  # Location: #fedora-meeting on irc.freenode.net
>  
>  Greetings folks,
>  
>  This is a reminder that we have a QA meeting scheduled every Monday at
>  16:00UTC.  If you are unable to make the meeting, but would like to see
>  an issue discussed, feel free to respond to the agenda with discussion
>  topics.  If no meeting topics have been proposed, we may choose to
>  cancel the meeting.
>  
>  = Proposed agenda =
>  
>       1. Adjusting proventesters group to be invite-only
>       2. Better living through automation ... autoqa
>       3. Thu, Jan 27 Test Day -- Network device naming
>  
>  Thanks,
>  James
>  
>  [1]
>
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/UTCHowto#How_can_I_convert_...
>  -- 
>  test mailing list
>  test(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  To unsubscribe: 
>  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test 
I wanna propose:

ticket#152 - Wiki and Nitrate TCMS - Move to next step (rhe)

Wiki use cases and feature comparison called for final review last week.
Based on the comments, I modified the requirements and moved previous to
formal pages below:

[1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Tcms_use_cases

[2] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Tcms_Comparison

But notice that feedback for these is still valuable for improving the
requirements coverage.  

This week I will begin the following steps - 

A. Identify Must-Have + Nice-to-Have feature to find any feature gaps
we'd need from Nitrate. Such features will firstly be marked in the
comparison table[2], and then summarized in a separate page for
reference. Comments welcome!

B. Write scripts for importing xml files from wiki to nitrate. The xml
files exported from wiki has different format from the files to be
imported to nitrate, therefore, scripts are needed to do the conversion.
Volunteers are welcomed!


Thanks,
Hurry
-- 
Contacts

Hurry
FAS Name: Rhe 
Timezone: UTC+8
TEL: [phone]
IRC nick: rhe #fedora-qa #fedora-zh

2011-01-24 @ 16:00UTC - Fedora QA meeting - agenda

[James Laska]

On Fri, 2011-01-21 at 14:09 -0500, James Laska wrote:
>  # Fedora Quality Assurance Meeting
>  # Date: 2011-01-24
>  # Time: 16:00 UTC (11:00 EST, 17:00 CET) [1]
>  # Location: #fedora-meeting on irc.freenode.net
>  
>  Greetings folks,
>  
>  This is a reminder that we have a QA meeting scheduled every Monday at
>  16:00UTC.  If you are unable to make the meeting, but would like to see
>  an issue discussed, feel free to respond to the agenda with discussion
>  topics.  If no meeting topics have been proposed, we may choose to
>  cancel the meeting.
>   
= Proposed agenda =
     1. Adjusting proventesters group to be invite-only
     2. Better living through automation ... autoqa
     3. ticket#152 - Wiki and Nitrate TCMS - Move to next step (rhe)
     4. Thu, Jan 27 Test Day -- Network device naming
     5. Open discussion - <your topic here>

See you @ 16:00 UTC!

Thanks,
James

2011-01-24 - Fedora QA meeting - recap

[James Laska]

Minutes and IRC transcript available at
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Meetings/20110124  ... get 'em while
they're hot!


TOPIC: Previous meeting follow-up
=================================================
     1. adamw - follow-up on advisory-board thread on media requirements
        for spins
       
(http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/advisory-board/2011-January/0102...).
              * Appears this has been resolved
     2. Bodhi feedback patch from fcami (see {{Ticket|infrastructure|
        701}} awaiting review
              * reviewed and accepted, thanks lmacken!


TOPIC: Wiki and Nitrate TCMS - Move to next step (ticket#152)
=================================================
      * See https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-qa/ticket/152
             1. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Tcms_use_cases
             2. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Tcms_Comparison
      * Wiki use cases and feature comparison called for final review
        last week.  
      * Based on the comments, I modified the requirements and moved
        previous to formal pages below:
      * Next steps ...
             1. Identify Must-Have + Nice-to-Have feature to find any
                feature gaps we'd need from Nitrate. Such features will
                firstly be marked in the comparison table[2], and then
                summarized in a separate page for reference. Comments
                welcome!
             2. Write scripts for importing xml files from wiki to
                nitrate. The xml files exported from wiki has different
                format from the files to be imported to nitrate,
                therefore, scripts are needed to do the conversion.
                Volunteers are welcomed!


TOPIC: Adjusting ''proventesters'' group to be invite-only
=================================================
      * Some testers are applying to the FAS proventesters group, but
        not filing a ticket or sending a welcome email (see
        http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test/2011-January/096511.html)
      * One suggestion is to make ''proventesters'' invite-only, and
        reflect the change in the [[Proven_tester]] documentation
      * Group discussed and decided to update wiki documentation to
        clarify process for handling join requests w/o a ticket.  If we
        are flooded with FAS requests w/o a ticket, we will reconsider
        invite-only recommendation
      * Next steps ...
             1. ACTION: jlaska - update
                https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Proven_tester#Mentoring_process with
information about how to handle FAS group requests without a corresponding 


TOPIC: Better living through automation ... autoqa
=================================================
      * new_koji_watcher and depcheck branch were reviewed
      * Together with the review of new_koji_watcher branch we have
        found a bug in Bodhi where it incorrectly used -pending tags on
        certain packages. lmacken quickly created a patch, which should
        be pushed into production soon (see
       
https://fedorahosted.org/bodhi/changeset/d6218003bda6ce41f85d1a71260aa415...)
      * jlaska fixed issues that prevented autotest from building on
        Fedora 14
      * Next steps ...
             1. Continue working towards autoqa-0.4.4 milestone
             2. More testing of 'master'

TOPIC: Thu, Jan 27 Test Day -- Network device naming
=================================================
      * https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-qa/ticket/159
      * Wiki looking good ... many thanks to Narendar & Dell for
        preparation (see
       
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-01-27_Network_Device_Naming_...)
      * Blog announcements 
             1. [http://domsch.com/blog/?p=455 Consistent Network Device
                Naming coming to Fedora 15Consistent Network Device
                Naming coming to Fedora 15]
             2.
[http://www.networkworld.com/community/fedora-15-changes-network-device-na... Breaking a
few eggs: Fedora 15 changes network device naming]
      * Next steps ...
             1. jlaska will upload a script provided by Narendra to help
                participants determine if they have applicable hardware
             2. HELP: Spread the word -- Test Day this week -- Thu 27,
                2011


ACTION ITEMS
=================================================
     1.  jlaska - update
        https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Proven_tester#Mentoring_process
        with information about how to handle FAS group requests without
        a corresponding ticket