12:46 p.m.
#105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22
-------------------------------+-----------------------
Reporter: jzb | Owner:
Type: defect | Status: new
Priority: blocker | Milestone: Fedora 22
Component: Docker Host Image | Keywords: meeting
-------------------------------+-----------------------
We seem to be missing the cockpit rpm that includes the systemd files
(e.g. /usr/lib/systemd/system/cockpit.socket).
Can we add cockpit-ws for the next update? We'll probably not be able to
respin the images, but an atomic update can pull in the package.
--
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/105>
cloud <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud>
Fedora Cloud Working Group Ticketing System
6:55 p.m.
#105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22
-------------------------------+------------------------
Reporter: jzb | Owner:
Type: defect | Status: new
Priority: blocker | Milestone: Fedora 22
Component: Docker Host Image | Resolution:
Keywords: meeting |
-------------------------------+------------------------
Comment (by walters):
F22 only includes the Cockpit core, the rest comes as a container. I
noted this in the Fedora wiki page I can't find now that was supposed to
list the changes.
See also https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/rel-
eng/2015-May/020170.html
--
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/105#comment:1>
cloud <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud>
Fedora Cloud Working Group Ticketing System
7:09 p.m.
#105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22
-------------------------------+------------------------
Reporter: jzb | Owner:
Type: defect | Status: new
Priority: blocker | Milestone: Fedora 22
Component: Docker Host Image | Resolution:
Keywords: meeting |
-------------------------------+------------------------
Comment (by mattdm):
I think it was premature to pull it from the base image before we are able
to distribute it in our own infrastructure. I know Fedora Releng is
_interested_ in being able to do that, but I don't know who if anyone is
signed up to actually make that happen.
In the above thread, it's raised as something for the FAD next week, but
that doesn't really help for the current release. If we needed this
yesterday, we needed to know about this... at least before yesterday.
--
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/105#comment:2>
cloud <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud>
Fedora Cloud Working Group Ticketing System
9:47 a.m.
#105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22
-------------------------------+------------------------
Reporter: jzb | Owner:
Type: defect | Status: new
Priority: blocker | Milestone: Fedora 22
Component: Docker Host Image | Resolution:
Keywords: meeting |
-------------------------------+------------------------
Comment (by walters):
For reference the commit is here:
https://git.fedorahosted.org/cgit/fedora-
atomic.git/commit/?h=f22&id=5a3cc4b0ee70ad4ff8d3729a72d215dda9de5595
Which also links to discussion from February. We expected to move faster
on having Cockpit come as a container, but didn't identify as a priority
having Fedora rel-eng ship it.
It's done now, so let's focus on moving forward? Which is having Fedora
rel-eng be capable of building and delivering the image, right?
--
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/105#comment:3>
cloud <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud>
Fedora Cloud Working Group Ticketing System
9:48 a.m.
#105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22
-------------------------------+------------------------
Reporter: jzb | Owner:
Type: defect | Status: new
Priority: blocker | Milestone: Fedora 22
Component: Docker Host Image | Resolution:
Keywords: meeting |
-------------------------------+------------------------
Comment (by walters):
Although looking at this more I realize that a lot of the actual
discussion happened out of band, and we didn't quite clearly communicate
that Cockpit was effectively being removed from the host by default.
--
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/105#comment:4>
cloud <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud>
Fedora Cloud Working Group Ticketing System
12:45 p.m.
#105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22
-------------------------------+------------------------
Reporter: jzb | Owner:
Type: defect | Status: new
Priority: blocker | Milestone: Fedora 22
Component: Docker Host Image | Resolution:
Keywords: meeting |
-------------------------------+------------------------
Comment (by ausil):
currently there we have no way to build and support containers and
different layered images. It is being worked on and hopefully will be
landing in Fedora 23. for now we are likely best servered by adding
cockpit abck to the images. and shipping it out in the next spin, though I
am open to some other option that we can support.
--
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/105#comment:5>
cloud <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud>
Fedora Cloud Working Group Ticketing System
7:56 a.m.
#105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22
-------------------------------+------------------------
Reporter: jzb | Owner:
Type: defect | Status: new
Priority: blocker | Milestone: Fedora 22
Component: Docker Host Image | Resolution:
Keywords: meeting |
-------------------------------+------------------------
Comment (by mattdm):
+1 to focusing on moving forward. I have great confidence that everyone
here wants to do the right thing; there's just a lot up in the air all at
once.
I'm told that [https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ttomecek Tomas Tomecek]
is working on something w.r.t. layered image building. Dennis, is that
what you're referring to, or something else? If we land this for F23
(ideally, as I know you like to do, before alpha), can we also turn it on
for F22?
--
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/105#comment:6>
cloud <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud>
Fedora Cloud Working Group Ticketing System
2:38 p.m.
#105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22
-------------------------------+------------------------
Reporter: jzb | Owner:
Type: defect | Status: new
Priority: blocker | Milestone: Fedora 22
Component: Docker Host Image | Resolution:
Keywords: meeting |
-------------------------------+------------------------
Comment (by dustymabe):
The Cloud WG discussed this today and the consensus is that we should
revert to a traditional rpm/service based approach for F22 and re-release
the container based approach at a future date with proper announcements
and documentation that help people migrate easily.
--
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/105#comment:7>
cloud <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud>
Fedora Cloud Working Group Ticketing System
12:54 a.m.
#105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22
-------------------------------+------------------------
Reporter: jzb | Owner:
Type: defect | Status: new
Priority: blocker | Milestone: Fedora 22
Component: Docker Host Image | Resolution:
Keywords: meeting |
-------------------------------+------------------------
Comment (by kushal):
Replying to [comment:7 dustymabe]:
The Cloud WG discussed this today and the consensus is that we should
revert to a traditional rpm/service based approach for F22 and re-release
the container based approach at a future date with proper announcements
and documentation that help people migrate easily.
+1 from me.
--
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/105#comment:8>
cloud <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud>
Fedora Cloud Working Group Ticketing System
7:26 a.m.
#105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22
-------------------------------+------------------------
Reporter: jzb | Owner:
Type: defect | Status: new
Priority: blocker | Milestone: Fedora 22
Component: Docker Host Image | Resolution:
Keywords: meeting |
-------------------------------+------------------------
Comment (by scollier):
In order to get cockpit to run on a F22 atomic host is two commands:
docker pull fedora/cockpitws
atomic run docker.io/fedora/cockpitws
Then you are ready to go.
--
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/105#comment:9>
cloud <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud>
Fedora Cloud Working Group Ticketing System
7:53 a.m.
#105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22
-------------------------------+------------------------
Reporter: jzb | Owner:
Type: defect | Status: new
Priority: blocker | Milestone: Fedora 22
Component: Docker Host Image | Resolution:
Keywords: meeting |
-------------------------------+------------------------
Comment (by walters):
The thing, the whole point of this effort is to containerize. Anyone who
wants the traditional "one set of packages" model has plenty of other
options *within Fedora*, such as Fedora Server and Fedora Cloud Base.
There's also the aspect that even if we add cockpit into the tree in an
update, anyone who does an initial install won't get it, so there will
still be issues with that.
Finally, while Fedora 21 shipped with it enabled by default, I'm a bit
hesistant to ship a new service that listens on the network by default in
an update to Fedora 22. It's very reasonable for organizations to
evaluate a "gold" OS configuration, perform some customization including
turning on/off services, setting up firewalling etc. These types of
deployments would be unhappy to have new services appear.
(It's actually not completely easy to simply blacklist all services,
because it's reasonable for e.g. nfs-utils to include a new internal
service, and if you then disable it by default, you wouldn't want to break
NFS. This is more about services which listen on the network)
--
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/105#comment:10>
cloud <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud>
Fedora Cloud Working Group Ticketing System
8:29 a.m.
#105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22
-------------------------------+------------------------
Reporter: jzb | Owner:
Type: defect | Status: new
Priority: blocker | Milestone: Fedora 22
Component: Docker Host Image | Resolution:
Keywords: meeting |
-------------------------------+------------------------
Comment (by ausil):
Replying to [comment:6 mattdm]:
+1 to focusing on moving forward. I have great confidence that
everyone
here wants to do the right thing; there's just a lot up in the air all
at
once.
I'm told that [https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ttomecek Tomas
Tomecek] is
working on something w.r.t. layered image building. Dennis, is
that what you're referring to, or something else? If we land this for F23
(ideally, as I know you like to do, before alpha), can we also turn it on
for F22?
That is what I am talking about, we can look at turning it on for f22
updates also. It is still a way off, so I am not sure when we will be able
to do it.
--
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/105#comment:11>
cloud <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud>
Fedora Cloud Working Group Ticketing System
12:38 p.m.
#105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22
-------------------------------+------------------------
Reporter: jzb | Owner:
Type: defect | Status: new
Priority: blocker | Milestone: Fedora 22
Component: Docker Host Image | Resolution:
Keywords: meeting |
-------------------------------+------------------------
Comment (by dustymabe):
So in comment#7 I stated the decision of the Cloud WG to revert back to
the old rpm model for now. In comment#11 it looks like we are ignoring
that. What can we do to move this forward?
Is cockpit only going to be delivered via container in the future (for
atomic and for non-atomic)?
I think the important part of this is that the user has a good and
consistent experience. If we can deliver that with containers *now* then
we would be open to that approach. Otherwise we should revert and make
that change for F23.
--
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/105#comment:12>
cloud <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud>
Fedora Cloud Working Group Ticketing System
1:16 p.m.
#105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22
-------------------------------+------------------------
Reporter: jzb | Owner:
Type: defect | Status: new
Priority: blocker | Milestone: Fedora 22
Component: Docker Host Image | Resolution:
Keywords: meeting |
-------------------------------+------------------------
Comment (by walters):
Comment #11 was hardly ignoring - it raised a number of points which could
use a reply.
However as far as governance goes:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Cloud/Governance says:
{{{
For bigger issues, where there may be disagreement, or where there is
long-term impact, or where an action may not easily be undone, we will use
a ticketing system for voting https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/. Working
group members can vote +1 to approve, -1 to disagree, or 0 to abstain;
five +1 votes are necessary for a measure to pass.
}}}
And there is definitely disagreement here.
I am not on the WG, but I am one of the people who commits most often to
the manifest. I would make the change if it had the +1 of 5 WG members,
per the charter. I'm also open to alternatives such as transferring
ownership of the fedora-atomic git repo to the Cloud WG (giving members
access), but I think for this issue the 5 +1s makes the most sense.
--
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/105#comment:13>
cloud <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud>
Fedora Cloud Working Group Ticketing System
2:20 p.m.
#105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22
-------------------------------+------------------------
Reporter: jzb | Owner:
Type: defect | Status: new
Priority: blocker | Milestone: Fedora 22
Component: Docker Host Image | Resolution:
Keywords: meeting |
-------------------------------+------------------------
Comment (by jzb):
Finally coming back to this. So - I had known that containerizing Cockpit
was in the offing, I hadn't realized that it was in the offing for F22.
It's entirely possible that this information had crossed my screen at some
point and it got lost in the shuffle - if so, mea culpa.
I've installed and run Cockpit via container a few times for demos, and
here's my current thinking now that I'm aware how easy this is, etc.:
* We should avoid undue surprises, but...
* We should also avoid churn
* The container works well, and ...
* Highlights the model we're seeking to promote with the Atomic host
and...
* We probably have fewer users inconvenienced/affected by this than, say,
a random change in the desktop or something like that.
All that said, I think I'm -1 on reverting the change at this point. If
I'd spotted this before release, I'd feel differently, but I think we can
just go forward from here.
--
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/105#comment:14>
cloud <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud>
Fedora Cloud Working Group Ticketing System
2:49 p.m.
#105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22
-------------------------------+------------------------
Reporter: jzb | Owner:
Type: defect | Status: new
Priority: blocker | Milestone: Fedora 22
Component: Docker Host Image | Resolution:
Keywords: meeting |
-------------------------------+------------------------
Comment (by dustymabe):
walters, jzb. Thank you for your input.
At the time we did the meeting (2 weeks ago) the container story was a
little farther off. Now we have some documentation
(http://www.projectatomic.io/blog/2015/06/running-cockpit-as-a-service/)
and perhaps can get the container included in atomic.
I think if we can get the container story right and situated for the
release of an updated atomic (as part of the updated releases
https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/94) then I would +1 going forward
with the container.
If there are things that would block having it get into an updated atomic
image then I would propose we stay with the rpm approach and get that into
the updated image instead.
Thoughts?
--
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/105#comment:15>
cloud <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud>
Fedora Cloud Working Group Ticketing System
2:55 p.m.
#105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22
-------------------------------+------------------------
Reporter: jzb | Owner:
Type: defect | Status: new
Priority: blocker | Milestone: Fedora 22
Component: Docker Host Image | Resolution:
Keywords: meeting |
-------------------------------+------------------------
Comment (by dustymabe):
Replying to [comment:10 walters]:
You mentioned some of these points needed to be replied to.. I'll give it
a stab.
The thing, the whole point of this effort is to containerize. Anyone
who wants the traditional "one set of packages" model has plenty of
other
options *within Fedora*, such as Fedora Server and Fedora Cloud Base.
There's also the aspect that even if we add cockpit into the tree in an
update, anyone who does an initial install won't get it, so there will
still be issues with that.
We are planning to release updated images. Does that change your opinion?
Finally, while Fedora 21 shipped with it enabled by default, I'm a bit
hesistant to ship a new service that listens on the network by default in
an update to Fedora 22. It's very reasonable for organizations to
evaluate a "gold" OS configuration, perform some customization including
turning on/off services, setting up firewalling etc. These types of
deployments would be unhappy to have new services appear.
If we don't want it to listen on the network by default and we are
delivering as a container then should we just not include it at all?
--
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/105#comment:16>
cloud <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud>
Fedora Cloud Working Group Ticketing System
3:49 p.m.
#105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22
-------------------------------+------------------------
Reporter: jzb | Owner:
Type: defect | Status: new
Priority: blocker | Milestone: Fedora 22
Component: Docker Host Image | Resolution:
Keywords: meeting |
-------------------------------+------------------------
Comment (by jzb):
Replying to [comment:15 dustymabe]:
walters, jzb. Thank you for your input.
At the time we did the meeting (2 weeks ago) the container story was a
little
farther off. Now we have some documentation
(http://www.projectatomic.io/blog/2015/06/running-cockpit-as-a-service/)
and perhaps can get the container included in atomic.
I think if we can get the container story right and situated for the
release of an
updated atomic (as part of the updated releases
https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/94) then I would +1 going forward
with the container.
If there are things that would block having it get into an updated
atomic image
then I would propose we stay with the rpm approach and get
that into the updated image instead.
Thoughts?
I don't think we want to put it in the atomic image. We'd be bloating the
image significantly - over and above what it'd add just to have the RPMs
for the additional cockpit components. The idea is that users who want
Cockpit can easily add it with one command ("sudo atomic install
fedora/cockpitws") and those who don't simply don't need the additional
space consumed by the packages.
--
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/105#comment:17>
cloud <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud>
Fedora Cloud Working Group Ticketing System
9:57 p.m.
#105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22
-------------------------------+------------------------
Reporter: jzb | Owner:
Type: defect | Status: new
Priority: blocker | Milestone: Fedora 22
Component: Docker Host Image | Resolution:
Keywords: meeting |
-------------------------------+------------------------
Comment (by dustymabe):
Ok so what I am hearing is that we probably don't want to include it at
all inside atomic. We can have a vote on that. I would be +1 if we can
publish some documentation:
1 - How to bring up a cloud node and automatically download and start
cockpit using cloud-init
2 - How we can bring up a bare metal node and do the same thing (via
kickstart??)
If we can get those two items out then I think we can move forward with
just doing the container. Agree/Disagree?
--
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/105#comment:18>
cloud <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud>
Fedora Cloud Working Group Ticketing System
12:12 p.m.
#105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22
-------------------------------+--------------------------
Reporter: jzb | Owner: jasonbrooks
Type: defect | Status: assigned
Priority: blocker | Milestone: Fedora 22
Component: Docker Host Image | Resolution:
Keywords: meeting |
-------------------------------+--------------------------
Changes (by dustymabe):
* status: new => assigned
* owner: => jasonbrooks
Comment:
jbrooks has volunteered to do some of the docs mentioned in the previous
comment.
--
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/105#comment:19>
cloud <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud>
Fedora Cloud Working Group Ticketing System
3:09 p.m.
#105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22
-------------------------------+--------------------------
Reporter: jzb | Owner: jasonbrooks
Type: defect | Status: assigned
Priority: blocker | Milestone: Fedora 22
Component: Docker Host Image | Resolution:
Keywords: meeting |
-------------------------------+--------------------------
Comment (by jasonbrooks):
I'm working on the cloud-init part of this in this gist:
https://gist.github.com/jasonbrooks/20cd3ebba36f851b957b.
I have it working, mostly, but docker won't start until I reboot the VM.
I'm not sure why -- any ideas?
--
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/105#comment:20>
cloud <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud>
Fedora Cloud Working Group Ticketing System
12:29 p.m.
#105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22
-------------------------------+--------------------------
Reporter: jzb | Owner: jasonbrooks
Type: defect | Status: assigned
Priority: blocker | Milestone: Fedora 22
Component: Docker Host Image | Resolution:
Keywords: meeting |
-------------------------------+--------------------------
Comment (by jasonbrooks):
As discussed in the cloud wg meeting today, I'll work on the kickstart
part of this and connect w/ dustymabe on smoothing the cloud-init part by
2015-08-03.
--
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/105#comment:21>
cloud <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud>
Fedora Cloud Working Group Ticketing System
12:21 p.m.
#105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22
-------------------------------+--------------------------
Reporter: jzb | Owner: jasonbrooks
Type: defect | Status: assigned
Priority: blocker | Milestone: Fedora 22
Component: Docker Host Image | Resolution:
Keywords: meeting |
-------------------------------+--------------------------
Comment (by jasonbrooks):
For cloud-init, the directions in the gist at
https://gist.github.com/jasonbrooks/20cd3ebba36f851b957b work, I'm going
to put these in a blog post and in the fedora cloud wiki.
--
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/105#comment:22>
cloud <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud>
Fedora Cloud Working Group Ticketing System
4:45 p.m.
#105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22
-------------------------------+--------------------------
Reporter: jzb | Owner: jasonbrooks
Type: defect | Status: assigned
Priority: blocker | Milestone: Fedora 22
Component: Docker Host Image | Resolution:
Keywords: meeting |
-------------------------------+--------------------------
Comment (by jasonbrooks):
Blogged here: http://www.projectatomic.io/blog/2015/08/running-a
-containerized-cockpit-ui-from-cloud-init/
will check out where to add on the cloud wiki
--
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/105#comment:23>
cloud <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud>
Fedora Cloud Working Group Ticketing System
1:06 p.m.
#105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22
-------------------------------+--------------------------
Reporter: jzb | Owner: jasonbrooks
Type: defect | Status: assigned
Priority: blocker | Milestone: Fedora 22
Component: Docker Host Image | Resolution:
Keywords: meeting |
-------------------------------+--------------------------
Comment (by jasonbrooks):
Now on the wiki at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Cloud/Tutorials/cockpit-
in-a-container
--
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/105#comment:24>
cloud <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud>
Fedora Cloud Working Group Ticketing System
12:07 p.m.
#105: Missing Cockpit RPMs in Fedora Atomic 22
-------------------------------+--------------------------
Reporter: jzb | Owner: jasonbrooks
Type: defect | Status: closed
Priority: blocker | Milestone: Fedora 22
Component: Docker Host Image | Resolution: fixed
Keywords: meeting |
-------------------------------+--------------------------
Changes (by roshi):
* status: assigned => closed
* resolution: => fixed
--
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/105#comment:25>
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