12:57 a.m.
#99: AMI lifetimes (Cloud WG members vote needed)
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Reporter: oddshocks | Owner: oddshocks
Type: task | Status: new
Priority: normal | Milestone: Fedora 22
Component: Infrastructure & | Keywords: aws, images, vote,
Release Engineering | policy
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This ticket is to discuss and vote on appropriate lifetimes for Fedora
Cloud AMIs on our official and community cloud accounts, as discussed on
the Cloud SIG list this month[1] and in this week's meeting.
Everyone seems to agree that after a final release, all TC, RC, Alpha,
Beta, and scratch builds should be deleted. This makes sense because
there'd be no reason to use any of these AMIs after the final release.
Still, we need to definitively decide on:
1. When should TC, RC, Alpha, Beta, and scratch builds be deleted? (1)
After a final release? (2) Progressively, when a newer build of the same
type comes out? (3) After a set amount of time, depending on the build
type? Note that with (2) or (3), we'd need some way to mark each build
with it's type. I don't think that necessarily happens now.
2. When should final release AMIs be deleted? (1) After a certain number
of newer final releases? (2) After a certain amount of time? (3) Never?
Also note that if we choose any age-based deletion policies, we'd need to
set up some sort of regular polling of *all* our AMIs on both accounts.
We want to hold as few AMIs at one time as is reasonable. There are many
AMIs created for each image build that happens, so our AWS storage charges
will become quite high if we don't keep our accounts clean. Discuss, and
then perhaps a vote?
[1]:
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/cloud/2015-March/005087.html
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Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/99>
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Fedora Cloud Working Group Ticketing System
2:58 p.m.
#99: AMI lifetimes (Cloud WG members vote needed)
--------------------------------------------------+------------------------
Reporter: oddshocks | Owner: oddshocks
Type: task | Status: new
Priority: normal | Milestone: Fedora 22
Component: Infrastructure & Release Engineering | Resolution:
Keywords: aws, images, vote, policy |
--------------------------------------------------+------------------------
Comment (by jzb):
1) let's delete after final release (1)
2) IMO, we should delete some period after support for that release ends.
Let's check with FeSCO to make sure that doesn't violate any policies,
though?
--
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/99#comment:1>
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Fedora Cloud Working Group Ticketing System
3:07 p.m.
#99: AMI lifetimes (Cloud WG members vote needed)
--------------------------------------------------+------------------------
Reporter: oddshocks | Owner: oddshocks
Type: task | Status: new
Priority: normal | Milestone: Fedora 22
Component: Infrastructure & Release Engineering | Resolution:
Keywords: aws, images, vote, policy |
--------------------------------------------------+------------------------
Comment (by dustymabe):
I think it would be good to get rid of all non-final (testing) AMIs once
the *next* release comes out.
-> Delete F21 alpha/beta etc AMIs once F22 comes out.
Keeping them around for at least some time after final release could be
useful. For example, some bug manifests itself in F21 after a month of
release. We could use the TCs to determine if it was there in beta/alpha
or not and improvie our process to catch a similar bug next time. Maybe
this is dumb but it could be useful information at some point.
For final release AMIs I think we can delete them after a period of time.
--
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/99#comment:2>
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Fedora Cloud Working Group Ticketing System
7:39 a.m.
#99: AMI lifetimes (Cloud WG members vote needed)
--------------------------------------------------+------------------------
Reporter: oddshocks | Owner: oddshocks
Type: task | Status: new
Priority: normal | Milestone: Fedora 22
Component: Infrastructure & Release Engineering | Resolution:
Keywords: aws, images, vote, policy |
--------------------------------------------------+------------------------
Comment (by jsmith):
1) I think pre-release builds should be deleted a few weeks after being
created. This lets someone try an earlier build for troubleshooting
purposes, but keeps the lifetime of alphas, betas, TCs, etc. to a minimum.
2) AMIs for final releases should be deleted at the time that the
particular Fedora release goes EOL. For example, when Fedora 20 goes EOL,
the AMI should get deleted at that same time.
--
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/99#comment:3>
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Fedora Cloud Working Group Ticketing System
8:34 a.m.
#99: AMI lifetimes (Cloud WG members vote needed)
--------------------------------------------------+------------------------
Reporter: oddshocks | Owner: oddshocks
Type: task | Status: new
Priority: normal | Milestone: Fedora 22
Component: Infrastructure & Release Engineering | Resolution:
Keywords: aws, images, vote, policy |
--------------------------------------------------+------------------------
Comment (by dustymabe):
Replying to [comment:3 jsmith]:
2) AMIs for final releases should be deleted at the time that the
particular
Fedora release goes EOL. For example, when Fedora 20 goes EOL,
the AMI should get deleted at that same time.
I don't know if I agree. I'd much prefer keeping final release AMIs around
for a while (maybe not in all regions, but at least 1) for longer than
that. The "cloud" can be quite useful for spinning up and debugging
something on an older release to see how the behavior differs from how you
remember it behaving and from how it behaves today. I'd compare it to
using a live cd to do the same thing.
One example would be that we find bug in kernel Z and want to quickly spin
up older versions of Fedora to see how far it goes back. I think the cloud
is an interesting use case for being able to test these things out quickly
rather than having to find where the images are stored and figure out all
the options needed to start it locally.
--
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/99#comment:4>
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Fedora Cloud Working Group Ticketing System
8 p.m.
#99: AMI lifetimes (Cloud WG members vote needed)
--------------------------------------------------+------------------------
Reporter: oddshocks | Owner: oddshocks
Type: task | Status: new
Priority: normal | Milestone: Fedora 22
Component: Infrastructure & Release Engineering | Resolution:
Keywords: aws, images, vote, policy |
--------------------------------------------------+------------------------
Comment (by hguemar):
1. => (3) I agree with Dusty on that point but just consider keeping it in
all region, because his point also works for third-party service providers
and software editors who would like to do their testing in a more local
region.
2. => (1) If we want to remain interesting for end-users, then, we
shouldn't delete even EOL'ed releases too soon. What's preferrable would
be
a) communicating on lifecycle of images.
b) having at startup, a message indicating to users that this image is no
longer supported and that it will be deleted at some point.
Let's allow end-users to prepare the transition to a newer image, just
remember that our current lifecycle (~13 months) is too short for
entreprises.
--
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/99#comment:5>
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Fedora Cloud Working Group Ticketing System
1:17 p.m.
#99: AMI lifetimes (Cloud WG members vote needed)
--------------------------------------------------+------------------------
Reporter: oddshocks | Owner: oddshocks
Type: task | Status: new
Priority: normal | Milestone: Fedora 22
Component: Infrastructure & Release Engineering | Resolution:
Keywords: aws, images, vote, policy |
--------------------------------------------------+------------------------
Comment (by oddshocks):
OK, it's been a while. Let's close the book on this. There are a lot of
opinions, so I'll boil it down to a few points that folks can vote on:
1. Final AMIs should be deleted when that Fedora version reaches EoL.
2. Final AMIs should never be deleted.
3. Pre-release AMIs should be deleted after the final release.
4. Major pre-release AMIs (Alpha, Beta, etc.) should be kept around for
one more release cycle after final release, in case they might be helpful
for hunting down a bug origins.
As for me, I vote for 1 and 3. My reasoning for this is:
* If someone needs to spin up an older version of Fedora Cloud on AWS for
whatever reason, they can easily create their own AMI for this purpose.
Additionally, Fedimg provides a bin script that allows one to manually
trigger a Fedimg job by providing it with a URL to a .raw.xz image file.
So if someone needs an old Beta or something, all they need to do is give
Fedimg the .raw.xz file.
* It will save space and money.
--
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/99#comment:6>
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Fedora Cloud Working Group Ticketing System
8:42 p.m.
#99: AMI lifetimes (Cloud WG members vote needed)
--------------------------------------------------+------------------------
Reporter: oddshocks | Owner: oddshocks
Type: task | Status: new
Priority: normal | Milestone: Fedora 22
Component: Infrastructure & Release Engineering | Resolution:
Keywords: aws, images, vote, policy |
--------------------------------------------------+------------------------
Comment (by dustymabe):
If these are the only options then I'd vote 2,4.
As for choosing between 1,2, could somewhere in the middle be an option?
How about:
Option 1.5 => Final AMIs will be kept for releases > EOL-N, where we
decide the number for N. If we choose N=1 then currently we would have
F19, F20, F21, F22. We could play with the number as well to say EOL-2 or
so on.
Here is the current EOL status:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/End_of_life?rd=LifeCycle/EOL
--
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/99#comment:7>
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Fedora Cloud Working Group Ticketing System
4:44 p.m.
#99: AMI lifetimes (Cloud WG members vote needed)
--------------------------------------------------+------------------------
Reporter: oddshocks | Owner: oddshocks
Type: task | Status: new
Priority: normal | Milestone: Fedora 22
Component: Infrastructure & Release Engineering | Resolution:
Keywords: aws, images, vote, policy |
--------------------------------------------------+------------------------
Comment (by roshi):
Going with the summary in comment #6 my votes are: 2 and 3.
My understanding of AWS and it's users is that AMI's should be there for a
long long time. Sans some means to monitor how many times it gets
launched, it's probably better to keep them than not to. What's the costs
we're looking at?
As for the milestone AMIs, I don't really see a reason to keep them after
final. Anything we need to debug we should be able to do in another
service or locally.
--
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/99#comment:8>
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Fedora Cloud Working Group Ticketing System
12:13 p.m.
#99: AMI lifetimes (Cloud WG members vote needed)
--------------------------------------------------+------------------------
Reporter: oddshocks | Owner: oddshocks
Type: task | Status: new
Priority: normal | Milestone: Fedora 22
Component: Infrastructure & Release Engineering | Resolution:
Keywords: aws, images, vote, policy |
--------------------------------------------------+------------------------
Comment (by oddshocks):
Yeah, I see why 2 might be the best option.
I propose we roll with 2 (Final AMIs should never be deleted) and 3 (Pre-
release AMIs should be deleted after the final release), at least for now.
We can always change our decision for the next release cycle if we
discover any issues with this policy between now and then.
+1? Ack?
--
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/99#comment:9>
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Fedora Cloud Working Group Ticketing System
1:56 p.m.
#99: AMI lifetimes (Cloud WG members vote needed)
--------------------------------------------------+------------------------
Reporter: oddshocks | Owner: oddshocks
Type: task | Status: new
Priority: normal | Milestone: Fedora 22
Component: Infrastructure & Release Engineering | Resolution:
Keywords: aws, images, vote, policy |
--------------------------------------------------+------------------------
Comment (by kushal):
Our new proposal for deleting AMI(s):
1. Delete the pre-release AMI(s) after the final release.
2. Delete the nightly build AMI(s) after 5 days of the build.
Can we please vote on this? More details are on the mailing list.
--
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/99#comment:10>
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Fedora Cloud Working Group Ticketing System
2:50 p.m.
#99: AMI lifetimes (Cloud WG members vote needed)
--------------------------------------------------+------------------------
Reporter: oddshocks | Owner: oddshocks
Type: task | Status: new
Priority: normal | Milestone: Fedora 22
Component: Infrastructure & Release Engineering | Resolution:
Keywords: aws, images, vote, policy |
--------------------------------------------------+------------------------
Comment (by jzb):
I am +1 on 1 and 2.
--
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/99#comment:11>
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Fedora Cloud Working Group Ticketing System
2:55 p.m.
#99: AMI lifetimes (Cloud WG members vote needed)
--------------------------------------------------+------------------------
Reporter: oddshocks | Owner: oddshocks
Type: task | Status: new
Priority: normal | Milestone: Fedora 22
Component: Infrastructure & Release Engineering | Resolution:
Keywords: aws, images, vote, policy |
--------------------------------------------------+------------------------
Comment (by dustymabe):
I am +1 on 1 and 2
To be clear this is just relating to AMIs right? Not deleting nightly
images from koji?
--
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/99#comment:12>
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Fedora Cloud Working Group Ticketing System
11:13 p.m.
#99: AMI lifetimes (Cloud WG members vote needed)
--------------------------------------------------+------------------------
Reporter: oddshocks | Owner: oddshocks
Type: task | Status: new
Priority: normal | Milestone: Fedora 22
Component: Infrastructure & Release Engineering | Resolution:
Keywords: aws, images, vote, policy |
--------------------------------------------------+------------------------
Comment (by rtnpro):
I am +1 on 1 & 2.
--
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/99#comment:13>
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Fedora Cloud Working Group Ticketing System
8:39 a.m.
#99: AMI lifetimes (Cloud WG members vote needed)
--------------------------------------------------+------------------------
Reporter: oddshocks | Owner: oddshocks
Type: task | Status: new
Priority: normal | Milestone: Fedora 22
Component: Infrastructure & Release Engineering | Resolution:
Keywords: aws, images, vote, policy |
--------------------------------------------------+------------------------
Comment (by jsmith):
I'm voting +1 to both proposals.
--
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/99#comment:14>
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Fedora Cloud Working Group Ticketing System
10:45 a.m.
#99: AMI lifetimes (Cloud WG members vote needed)
--------------------------------------------------+------------------------
Reporter: oddshocks | Owner: oddshocks
Type: task | Status: new
Priority: normal | Milestone: Fedora 22
Component: Infrastructure & Release Engineering | Resolution:
Keywords: aws, images, vote, policy |
--------------------------------------------------+------------------------
Comment (by mattdm):
Let's make sure to send a message to the announce list before deleting any
of the old AMIs, probably with a week's notice (as nice as it would be to
have them cleaned up ASAP given the storage costs).
--
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/99#comment:15>
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Fedora Cloud Working Group Ticketing System
11:07 a.m.
#99: AMI lifetimes (Cloud WG members vote needed)
--------------------------------------------------+------------------------
Reporter: oddshocks | Owner: oddshocks
Type: task | Status: new
Priority: normal | Milestone: Fedora 22
Component: Infrastructure & Release Engineering | Resolution:
Keywords: aws, images, vote, policy, meeting |
--------------------------------------------------+------------------------
Changes (by kushal):
* keywords: aws, images, vote, policy => aws, images, vote, policy,
meeting
--
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/99#comment:16>
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Fedora Cloud Working Group Ticketing System
11:02 a.m.
#99: AMI lifetimes (Cloud WG members vote needed)
--------------------------------------------------+------------------------
Reporter: oddshocks | Owner: oddshocks
Type: task | Status: new
Priority: normal | Milestone: Fedora 22
Component: Infrastructure & Release Engineering | Resolution:
Keywords: aws, images, vote, policy, meeting |
--------------------------------------------------+------------------------
Comment (by dustymabe):
Can this be closed now? I know we deleted a bunch of stuff. Can we state
officially what the new policy is and put that on a wiki page somewhere?
--
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/99#comment:17>
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Fedora Cloud Working Group Ticketing System
8:12 a.m.
#99: AMI lifetimes (Cloud WG members vote needed)
--------------------------------------------------+------------------------
Reporter: oddshocks | Owner: oddshocks
Type: task | Status: closed
Priority: normal | Milestone: Fedora 22
Component: Infrastructure & Release Engineering | Resolution: fixed
Keywords: aws, images, vote, policy, meeting |
--------------------------------------------------+------------------------
Changes (by dustymabe):
* status: new => closed
* resolution: => fixed
Comment:
It was decided at last Cloud WG meeting that this can be closed as we are
now cleaning up non-release AMIs periodically.
--
Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/99#comment:18>
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