This kind of comment is not constructively adding to the dialogue.
Let's stay focused on the specific issue under discussion.
On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 10:53 PM Dale Raby <daleraby(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> So what is next? Do we have to change the colors of chess pieces to
> pink and blue? I had a discussion recently with a "person of color" if
> that is the correct term these days on the subject of "firing" Aunt
> Jemima. He thought it was really kind of stupid. I think he is right.
>
> Surely there must be something that is more important than this childish
> nonsense.
>
> On 6/23/2020 6:16 PM, Eric Gustavsson wrote:
> > Obviously existing printed material cannot be changed. But newer
> > editions of books can most certainly address these things if they so
> > desire.
> >
> > Paul, Ben - there was an OSPO talk about inclusive terminology that
> > was put up a couple of weeks ago that might be of some interest
> >
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZuFeFuazwo
> >
> > Eric Gustavsson, RHCSA
> > He/Him/His
> > Software Engineer
> > Red Hat
> > IM: Telegram: @SpyTec
> > E1FE 044A E0DE 127D CBCA E7C7 BD1B 8DF2 C5A1 5384
> >
> > On Wed, 24 Jun 2020 at 01:11, John Paul Wohlschied <wohlschied(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> >> At this rate, we will be burning older technical books because the
terminology is no longer "acceptable".
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 6:09 PM Gregory Bartholomew
<gregory.lee.bartholomew(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> I have no objection other than maybe the work it puts on the writer to
> >>> learn the new terminology. Personally I don't typically think along
those
> >>> lines and I can see where it might be easy for someone to accidentally
use
> >>> a word out of habit and not even realize that it is one that has been
> >>> flagged by the community as an offensive word.
> >>>
> >>> My only request is that the writers/editors not be expected to learn a
long
> >>> list of words to constantly be thinking about and watching out for. I
would
> >>> rather the list be loaded into the spelling autocorrect system somehow.
> >>>
> >>> My two cents,
> >>> gb
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 4:55 PM Paul Frields <stickster(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Tue, Jun 23, 2020, 5:23 PM Eric Gustavsson
<egustavs(a)redhat.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Raising my opinion as well. As a Swedish person, I've
always
> >>>>> associated whitelists as a list of things you can see, since
white is
> >>>>> bright.
> >>>>> Likewise for blacklists as something in the darkness that you
cannot see.
> >>>>>
> >>>> I'm sure you can understand, though, why our associations in
this case are
> >>>> less relevant.
> >>>>
> >>>> I personally would use the same connotation as the project I'm
writing
> >>>>> about.
> >>>>> If I'm writing about Redis I will write about
master-replica.
> >>>>> Likewise if I'm writing about something that uses
whitelist/blacklist
> >>>>> wording, I will use that as well.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Using a different connotation than is documented is just
confusing.
> >>>>>
> >>>> While I agree upstream references may make this difficult there are
still
> >>>> actions we can take, such as a note to the effect of the
objectionable
> >>>> language, and (if it exists) a link to upstream discussion. We can
also
> >>>> work around with a clear note at the top of an article explaining
the
> >>>> language we will use.
> >>>>
> >>>> I wouldn't edit the Fedora Magazine article either, even though
> >>>>> allowlist/denylist 100% makes more sense in firewalld the
article
> >>>>> talks about it as a problem and proposes a solution - their
> >>>>> firewalld-blacklist package.
> >>>>> If it was to be edited across the article to mention denylist
instead,
> >>>>> and in the end link to a firewalld-blacklist package they
created, one
> >>>>> would be confused as to why it was coded with one word and
released
> >>>>> with a different one.
> >>>>>
> >>>> This seems a weak problem. After all we have many -devel packages
that
> >>>> contain mainly headers.
> >>>>
> >>>> I would vote for discouraging master/slave, and blacklist/whitelist
as
> >>>>> long as it makes sense and doesn't take away any meaning
that needs to
> >>>>> be explained.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Having a style guide sounds great, I'm presuming something
like
> >>>>> codespell can correct custom words as well like RedHat,
> >>>>> NetworkManager, fedora, etc.
> >>>>>
> >>>> I do agree we avoid creating confusion, but this can be done in many
ways
> >>>> that avoid simply falling back to status quo.
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Paul
> >>>> _______________________________________________
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