Re: Flash instructions updated
by Antonio Olivares
--- On Fri, 5/22/09, Adam Williamson <awilliam(a)redhat.com> wrote:
> From: Adam Williamson <awilliam(a)redhat.com>
> Subject: Re: Flash instructions updated
> To: "For testers of Fedora Core development releases" <fedora-test-list(a)redhat.com>
> Date: Friday, May 22, 2009, 3:42 PM
> On Fri, 2009-05-22 at 15:30 -0700,
> Antonio Olivares wrote:
>
> > Exactly. If the thing does not work, then you
> have to use the tool
> > that works. I tried the gnash and it did not do
> the job. You have to
> > use the tools that work for you.
> >
> > That it does not match the goals of the Fedora
> project, yes I have to
> > agree with Adam. But on the other hand, but one
> has to use the tools
> > that work for our systems and those include the nvidia
> drivers and the
> > flash plugin from Adobe.
>
> That was never the point here; no-one's trying to tell
> anyone what to do
> on his or her own personal system. Heck, I use the Adobe
> Flash plugin,
> and the NVIDIA proprietary driver. But what we were talking
> about is a
> page on the Fedora Wiki - which should be written with the
> Fedora
> philosophy in mind. That's all.
>
> I think most people who run Fedora would either be free
> software
> purists, or would say "use free software first, but if you
> can't find
> any that works for the job in hand, non-free is okay". The
> change to the
> page that Paul wrote simply states the second - if you care
> about free
> software, a non-free piece of software is clearly the last
> resort, i.e.,
> you use it if nothing free does the job. It probably helps
> if you think
> about the alternative: if you *don't* care about free
> software, then
> there's no reason Adobe Flash would be the last resort,
> because you
> wouldn't give a fig if it were free or not. It would be the
> first
> resort, probably, because it's the plugin from the author
> of Flash, and
> it's what most people use. So you'd pick it *first*, and go
> to a
> third-party alternative only if it didn't work for you.
> That's the only
> distinction being drawn.
> --
Okay, this argument is reasonable. It is for the wiki, then the points stated are legitimate and thank you for sharing the points. Sorry if I came too hard :(
Regards,
Antonio
14 years, 11 months
Re: Flash instructions updated
by Antonio Olivares
--- On Fri, 5/22/09, Kevin Kofler <kevin.kofler(a)chello.at> wrote:
> From: Kevin Kofler <kevin.kofler(a)chello.at>
> Subject: Re: Flash instructions updated
> To: fedora-test-list(a)redhat.com
> Date: Friday, May 22, 2009, 2:34 PM
> David wrote:
> > Just how often have you heard someone answer, when
> asked, 'what OS do
> > you use?' Something other than 'Linux'?
>
> That doesn't make it any more correct. Even if everyone
> claims that 2=1 or
> that pi=3, that doesn't make it any more true.
\pi \approx 3.14159265 .....
>
> Linux is a kernel. The OS is called GNU/Linux. Fedora is
> one distribution of
> GNU/Linux. There are others. But none of them is just
> Linux, Linux doesn't
> work on its own, without a libc, a shell etc.
>
> Kevin Kofler
>
> --
And distributions are known as Linux Distributions. Fedora is one of many and not all are GNU/Linux or at least they put so in their name. Fedora is simply Fedora Linux not Fedora GNU/Linux. It is Linux plus all those things that you mentioned gcc ... other apps here. No one complains except the people that might be on GNU's bandwagon or FSF purists. Yes they want the attachment GNU/Linux, but others(many others are happy with Linux) not GNU/Linux.
Regards,
Antonio
14 years, 11 months
Re: Flash instructions updated
by Antonio Olivares
> That's not a debate that's appropriate for this list, but
> it is clearly
> not Fedora's position, either in theory or in fact. We do
> not include
> non-free software in Fedora even where it would lead, in
> the short term,
> to a better 'user experience'. That doesn't mean every
> Fedora user is
> required to follow the free software ideology, but it does
> have
> implications for how issues should be presented on pages
> that represent
> the Fedora project.
> --
``We do not include non-free software in Fedora''
Not true, if that were the case, then Fedora would be a 100% free distribution and meet the requirements set by the FSF. They apparently include something that is not free, might be just a tiny fraction of the whole, but just enough for it not to be 100% free :(
Regards,
Antonio
14 years, 11 months
Re: Flash instructions updated
by Antonio Olivares
--- On Fri, 5/22/09, David <dgboles(a)comcast.net> wrote:
> From: David <dgboles(a)comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: Flash instructions updated
> To: "For testers of Fedora Core development releases" <fedora-test-list(a)redhat.com>
> Date: Friday, May 22, 2009, 1:34 PM
> On 5/22/2009 3:05 PM, Adam Williamson
> wrote:
> > On Fri, 2009-05-22 at 14:05 -0400, David wrote:
> >
> >> Just keep repeating to yourself, "Linux is an
> OS... Linux is not a
> >> cause... Linux is an
> OS... Linux is not a cause..."
> >>
> >> :-)
> >
> > Linux isn't an OS, it's a kernel. Fedora is an OS (and
> a project which
> > creates an OS), and Fedora certainly has a cause
> element to it. Note
> > that the first of Fedora's four pillars is Freedom. :)
> The Fedora
> > project is not a project to create the best-working
> operating system at
> > a given moment in time with no regard to the freedom
> of the code it
> > contains, so in this respect, your position does not
> match that of the
> > Fedora project in general.
>
>
> Just how often have you heard someone answer, when asked,
> 'what OS do
> you use?' Something other than 'Linux'? Seldom is the name
> of the
> distribution used.
>
> And that was not my point anyway. One person here needs a
> working Flash
> for his work so he uses Flash from Adobe. And another
> person was calling
> him, sort of, a 'traitor to the free software cause'
> because he was not
> using the somewhat broken gnash. He did not call it by
> name. I can think
> of several places the gnash does not work.
>
> This is all baloney. Use the tool that will do what you
> need to do. A
> computer is a machine, a toll. Not an altar. Bread on the
> table beats
> hungry every time. IMO.
> --
AMEN!!!
>
>
> David
>
> --
Exactly. If the thing does not work, then you have to use the tool that works. I tried the gnash and it did not do the job. You have to use the tools that work for you.
That it does not match the goals of the Fedora project, yes I have to agree with Adam. But on the other hand, but one has to use the tools that work for our systems and those include the nvidia drivers and the flash plugin from Adobe.
Linux is a kernel, yes, but the OS is also called Linux(whether people like it or not). Some call it GNU/Linux and you can create problems with what one writes here. I call it Linux, he called it Linux you call it Fedora.
/bye
Regards,
Antonio
14 years, 11 months
Re: Flash instructions updated
by Antonio Olivares
--- On Fri, 5/22/09, Rahul Sundaram <sundaram(a)fedoraproject.org> wrote:
> From: Rahul Sundaram <sundaram(a)fedoraproject.org>
> Subject: Re: Flash instructions updated
> To: "For testers of Fedora Core development releases" <fedora-test-list(a)redhat.com>
> Date: Friday, May 22, 2009, 1:47 PM
> On 05/23/2009 02:04 AM, David wrote:
>
> >
> > This is all baloney. Use the tool that will do what
> you need to do. A
> > computer is a machine, a toll. Not an altar. Bread on
^
r
missing `r` here?
> the table beats
> > hungry every time. IMO.
>
> I might personally choose to stay hungry on occasions if it
> means it
> brings food to a person who is more hungry. You have a
> personal stand
> point of using whatever tool that fits your needs and value
> not staying
> hungry.
>
> Fedora values are a bit different
>
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Foundations
>
> It is ok to use a distribution that doesn't match your
> values perfectly
> but it important to recognize that there is such a
> difference. This
> doesn't mean that everyone who uses Flash is a traitor but
> again, this
> discussion is about a compromise. Fedora's compromise in
> the case of
> Flash is to describe how to install Flash but also warn
> users that they
> are installing proprietary software.
>
> People who value the virtues of Free software over the
> utilitarian
> benefits would choose to use swfdec or gnash and file bug
> reports when
> things don't work. Others would ignore the warning and
> install the
> proprietary software and deal with somehow when they face
> bugs. Again,
> it is a compromise. I doubt you are going to convince
> everybody who
> values free and open source software to abandon their
> beliefs in favor
> of your thinking. It is better to understand that there is
> a difference
> in values and respect that.
>
> Rahul
>
> --
Yes, sometimes we need proprietary software when the free software just does not cut it or does not meet our needs. Fedora values FREEDOM and we have that FREEDOM to get the stuff from Adobe/Nvidia/....
sed -i 's| free_stuff_that_does_not_work | put_propietary_stuff_that_works |g'
People do not have to abandon their right to a FREE system. But the users have to make that decision themselves not critize them for having to install the proprietary stuff. The users know that a big WARNING you are on your own. We cannot help you. You chose to install the other_stuff then you can't complain to Fedora for doing that. That is OK.
BTW,
all that stuff that fedora is Free, is only partially right. Remember the arguments "that old GNU argument", is a ghost of the past. There are some parts that are also propietary, how come no one says anything about that? Yes they might be just bits/bytes, but it is not totally 100% free according to FSF :(
My $0.02
Regards,
Antonio
14 years, 11 months
Hi
by Alex Turner
Hi guys,
I'm very glad to join at Fedora Bug Zappers Team. I have working a lot
with Fedora and Red Hat Linux since some years ago. So, let's time to
contribute with the project.
I have some experience in programming, like C++ PHP Ruby C Obj-C
Applescript (not really a lang but a lang anyways), python, boo, C
So, let me introduce myself.
My name is Alex Turner, I live at Ann Arbor MI
USA. I use windows 7, mac os x, and have used ubuntu but have gotten
tired of it and want to try something new like fedora.
That was 1 year ago. Now I use windws 7, mac os x,
and fedora for developing Operating systems (for purposes like fun and
a challenge) and using it as a fun operating system.
At my signature I'm sending my contacts fell free if anyone want to contact me.
Bye
--------
Contacts
msn:alex@unity3dgallery.com <msn%3Aalex(a)unity3dgallery.com>
aol:alex@unity3dgallery.com <aol%3Aalex(a)unity3dgallery.com>
gmail:pawngame10@gmail.com <gmail%3Apawngame10(a)gmail.com>
other:alex@unity3dgallery.com <other%3Aalex(a)unity3dgallery.com>
14 years, 11 months
gdb crash in f11-preview
by David L
When I run gdb under emacs and attach to a gdbserver session,
I get an error like this:
A problem internal to GDB has been detected,
further debugging may prove unreliable.
Quit this debugging session? (y or n) y
../../gdb/findvar.c:300: internal-error: value_of_register_lazy:
Assertion `frame_id_p (get_frame_id (frame))' failed.
A problem internal to GDB has been detected,
further debugging may prove unreliable.
Create a core file of GDB? (y or n) y
It seems to only happen when I run under emacs and use gdbserver,
so I don't know if it's a gdb problem or an emacs problem. It happens
even with a simple little hello.cpp application:
gcc -g -o hellof11 hello.c
gdbserver localhost:9100 hellof11
Then, from an emacs window:
M-x gdb
gdb --annotate=3 hellof11
target remote localhost:9100
cont
I haven't filed a bug report yet... any thoughts on the proper
component? gdbserver? gdb? emacs? Can anybody else
reproduce this?
Thanks,
David
14 years, 11 months
rawhide report: 20090522 changes
by Fedora compose checker
Compose started at Fri May 22 06:15:04 UTC 2009
Updated Packages:
alsa-lib-1.0.20-1.fc11
----------------------
* Wed May 06 2009 Jaroslav Kysela <jkysela(a)redhat.com> - 1.0.20-1
- Updated to 1.0.20 final
gallery2-2.3-11.fc11
--------------------
* Thu May 21 2009 Jon Ciesla <limb(a)jcomserv.net> - 2.3-11
- Patch to fix SMTP, 501868.
- Patch to fix captcha, 501871.
* Thu May 14 2009 Jon Ciesla <limb(a)jcomserv.net> - 2.3-10
- Fine-tuning of symlink script.
pungi-2.0.16-1.fc11
-------------------
* Thu May 21 2009 Jesse Keating <jkeating(a)redhat.com> - 2.0.16-1
- Fix boot.iso being on DVD images
tigervnc-0.0.90-0.10.fc11
-------------------------
* Thu May 21 2009 Adam Tkac <atkac redhat com> 0.0.90-10
- rebuild against 1.6.1.901 X server (#497835)
- disable i18n, vncviewer is not UTF-8 compatible (#501832)
Summary:
Added Packages: 0
Removed Packages: 0
Modified Packages: 4
Broken deps for ppc64
----------------------------------------------------------
cabal2spec-0.12-1.fc11.noarch requires ghc > 0:6.10.1-7
14 years, 11 months
modeset on/off changes xrandr output
by Mary Ellen Foster
I've been looking around and I haven't seen anywhere that this is
documented: if I toggle the modeset flag the output of xrandr changes
radically (this is on fully updated F11 rawhide with Intel graphics):
- Outputs have different names:
- modeset: VGA1, LVDS1, DVI{1,2}, TV1
- nomodeset: VGA, LVDS, HDMI-{1,2}, TV
- Maximum virtual size is different:
- modeset: 8192 x 8192
- nomodeset: 1920 x 1920 (nb: native resolution is 1920x1200)
- Available resolutions and refresh rates are different, with many
more available with nomodeset
- e.g., LVDS has only 1920x1200 with modesetting, but six further
resolutions with nomodeset
Is this a known "feature"? Is it documented anywhere?
Thanks,
MEF
--
Mary Ellen Foster -- http://homepages.inf.ed.ac.uk/mef/
ICCS, School of Informatics, University of Edinburgh
The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
Scotland, with registration number SC005336.
14 years, 11 months
