[Bug 807068] New: Please fine-tune glyphs of Tamil numerals and one symbol in Lohit Tamil font

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Summary: Please fine-tune glyphs of Tamil numerals and one symbol in Lohit Tamil font

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=807068

           Summary: Please fine-tune glyphs of Tamil numerals and one
                    symbol in Lohit Tamil font
           Product: Fedora
           Version: 16
          Platform: Unspecified
        OS/Version: Unspecified
            Status: NEW
          Severity: unspecified
          Priority: unspecified
         Component: lohit-tamil-fonts
        AssignedTo: psatpute(a)redhat.com
        ReportedBy: samjnaa(a)gmail.com
         QAContact: extras-qa(a)fedoraproject.org
                CC: fonts-bugs(a)lists.fedoraproject.org,
                    psatpute(a)redhat.com, i18n-bugs(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
    Classification: Fedora
      Story Points: ---
              Type: ---
        Regression: ---
        Mount Type: ---
     Documentation: ---


Created attachment 572886
  --> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/attachment.cgi?id=572886
TTF of replacement glyphs and attestations for the same

Description of problem:

The Tamil digits in the Lohit Tamil font are not true to the actual printed
glyphs and hence do not look so good even though the rest of the Lohit Tamil
font is OTOH exceptionally of good quality.

The glyph of one Tamil symbol 0BF6 TAMIL DEBIT SIGN is also not true to the
printed glyphs.

Version-Release number of selected component (if applicable):

2.5.0

How reproducible:

Using Lohit Tamil font, compare glyphs to existing printed glyphs.

Actual results:

The relative proportions, shapes and lengths of the strokes in some of the
glyphs are not according to the actual usage in printing. Some changes were
subtle, some were very obvious.

Expected results:

For maintaining high quality, the above problem should be fixed.

Additional info:

I have attached a small font with the replacement glyphs. Mostly they are:

1) glyphs copied from elsewhere in the font or another Lohit font (for zero)
2) existing glyphs with positioning of some nodes slightly modified

If above not possible, only then I have changed the number of nodes. 

I have also provided the attestations from printed books. Especially please
note that the Tamil zero should be perfectly circular, and the 0BF6 TAMIL DEBIT
SIGN should be derived from Tamil PA ப. [In the Unicode chart, the glyph of
0BF6 is wrong and I have asked them to correct it.]

Please make sure to autohint the glyphs as due to change in number of points
the original hinting information might have been lost. Sorry for that.

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[Bug 807068] Please fine-tune glyphs of Tamil numerals and one symbol in Lohit Tamil font

[Red Hat Bugzilla]

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https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=807068

Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com&gt; changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
             Status|NEW                         |MODIFIED

--- Comment #1 from Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com&gt; 2012-05-11 03:52:08 EDT
---
done changes, please check http://pravins.fedorapeople.org/Lohit-Tamil.ttf and
give me your comments. 

Yeah, we are loosing hinting instructions but its fine. We have enabled
autohinting for Tamil in Fedora.

After your comments will commit it to upstream and will do release. 

Note: I have not done changes waiting for Unicode in Lohit Tamil, once Unicode
will change it we can update same.

Done that change in Classical font.

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[Bug 807068] Please fine-tune glyphs of Tamil numerals and one symbol in Lohit Tamil font

[Red Hat Bugzilla]

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https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=807068

--- Comment #2 from Shriramana Sharma <samjnaa(a)gmail.com&gt; 2012-05-15 08:31:41 EDT
---
(In reply to comment #1)
>  Yeah, we are loosing hinting instructions but its fine. We have
> enabled
>  autohinting for Tamil in Fedora. 
Hm, but it would be good if you could tell FontForge to autohint the glyphs
because non-Fedora distributions are also using the Lohit fonts. Frankly, I'm
also using the Lohit fonts when I boot up into Windows XP! So I would prefer
the hinting to *not* be distro-dependent.

>  After your comments will commit it to upstream and will do release. 
Now I have checked whether all the requested changes are done and I observe
that the glyph for TAMIL NUMBER ONE THOUSAND is as yet unchanged in both Tamil
normal and Tamil Classical fonts. Please see the relevant glyph in attachment
#572886.

Next, I also note that the glyphs for ONE HUNDRED and ONE THOUSAND have moved
somewhat downwards in both fonts. Please correct them to their original
positions.

>  Note: I have not done changes waiting for Unicode in Lohit Tamil,
> once Unicode
>  will change it we can update same. 
Do you want me to file a separate bug for the one symbol pending UTC editorial
approval?

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[Bug 807068] Please fine-tune glyphs of Tamil numerals and one symbol in Lohit Tamil font

[Red Hat Bugzilla]

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=807068

--- Comment #3 from Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com&gt; ---
(In reply to comment #2)
>  (In reply to comment #1)
>  > Yeah, we are loosing hinting instructions but its fine. We have enabled
>  > autohinting for Tamil in Fedora.
>  
>  Hm, but it would be good if you could tell FontForge to autohint the glyphs
>  because non-Fedora distributions are also using the Lohit fonts. Frankly,
>  I'm also using the Lohit fonts when I boot up into Windows XP! So I would
>  prefer the hinting to *not* be distro-dependent. 
autohinting does not work well for Indian scripts, so i am bit reluctant to do
it.

But lets add it for newly added characters better to have something rather than
nothing.

>  
>  > After your comments will commit it to upstream and will do release. 
>  
>  Now I have checked whether all the requested changes are done and I observe
>  that the glyph for TAMIL NUMBER ONE THOUSAND is as yet unchanged in both
>  Tamil normal and Tamil Classical fonts. Please see the relevant glyph in
>  attachment #572886 [details]. 
Can you now check it in svn? 
https://fedorahosted.org/lohit/browser/trunk/tamil

>  
>  Next, I also note that the glyphs for ONE HUNDRED and ONE THOUSAND have
>  moved somewhat downwards in both fonts. Please correct them to their
>  original positions. 
My bad, while observing support image i thought its little bit below than other
numerals.

corrected it now.

>  
>  > Note: I have not done changes waiting for Unicode in Lohit Tamil, once Unicode
>  > will change it we can update same.
>  
>  Do you want me to file a separate bug for the one symbol pending UTC
>  editorial approval? 
Yes, new bug will help to keep track.

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[Bug 807068] Please fine-tune glyphs of Tamil numerals and one symbol in Lohit Tamil font

[Red Hat Bugzilla]

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=807068

--- Comment #4 from Shriramana Sharma <samjnaa(a)gmail.com&gt; ---
(In reply to comment #3)
>  autohinting does not work well for Indian scripts, so i am bit
> reluctant to
>  do it.
>  But lets add it for newly added characters better to have something rather
>  than nothing. 
OK thanks.

>  > Now I have checked whether all the requested changes are done
> and I observe
>  > that the glyph for TAMIL NUMBER ONE THOUSAND is as yet unchanged in both
>  > Tamil normal and Tamil Classical fonts. Please see the relevant glyph in
>  > attachment #572886 [details].
>  
>  Can you now check it in svn? 
>  https://fedorahosted.org/lohit/browser/trunk/tamil 
Yes now the new corrected glyphs are applied. Thank you.

>  > Do you want me to file a separate bug for the one symbol pending
> UTC
>  > editorial approval?
>  
>  Yes, new bug will help to keep track. 
Reported bug #826026. You can close this bug once the replacement for the
numerals glyphs alone has been released.

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[Bug 807068] [ta_IN] Please fine-tune glyphs of Tamil numerals and one symbol in Lohit Tamil font

[Red Hat Bugzilla]

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=807068

A S Alam <aalam(a)redhat.com&gt; changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
           Keywords|                            |i18n
                 CC|                            |aalam(a)redhat.com
            Summary|Please fine-tune glyphs of  |[ta_IN] Please fine-tune
                   |Tamil numerals and one      |glyphs of Tamil numerals
                   |symbol in Lohit Tamil font  |and one symbol in Lohit
                   |                            |Tamil font

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[Bug 807068] [ta_IN] Please fine-tune glyphs of Tamil numerals and one symbol in Lohit Tamil font

[Red Hat Bugzilla]

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=807068

--- Comment #5 from Shriramana Sharma <samjnaa(a)gmail.com&gt; ---
Created attachment 589720
  --> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/attachment.cgi?id=589720&action=edit
Further minor updates to glyphs of zero and five

Please find attached further fine-tune updates for the glyphs of Tamil digits
zero and five. Please update trunk version of Lohit Tamil and Tamil Classical
using these two glyphs before closing this bug. Thank you.

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[Bug 807068] [ta_IN] Please fine-tune glyphs of Tamil numerals and one symbol in Lohit Tamil font

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https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=807068

--- Comment #6 from Fedora Update System <updates(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; ---
lohit-tamil-fonts-2.5.1-1.fc17 has been submitted as an update for Fedora 17.
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/lohit-tamil-fonts-2.5.1-1.fc17

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[Bug 807068] [ta_IN] Please fine-tune glyphs of Tamil numerals and one symbol in Lohit Tamil font

[Red Hat Bugzilla]

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=807068

--- Comment #7 from Fedora Update System <updates(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; ---
lohit-tamil-fonts-2.5.1-1.fc16 has been submitted as an update for Fedora 16.
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/lohit-tamil-fonts-2.5.1-1.fc16

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[Bug 807068] [ta_IN] Please fine-tune glyphs of Tamil numerals and one symbol in Lohit Tamil font

[Red Hat Bugzilla]

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=807068

--- Comment #8 from Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com&gt; ---
(In reply to comment #5)
>  Created attachment 589720 [details]
>  Further minor updates to glyphs of zero and five
>  
>  Please find attached further fine-tune updates for the glyphs of Tamil
>  digits zero and five. Please update trunk version of Lohit Tamil and Tamil
>  Classical using these two glyphs before closing this bug. Thank you. 
This fix will be available with next build. trunk is updated though.

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[Bug 807068] [ta_IN] Please fine-tune glyphs of Tamil numerals and one symbol in Lohit Tamil font

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https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=807068

--- Comment #9 from Shriramana Sharma <samjnaa(a)gmail.com&gt; ---
Created attachment 590473
  --> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/attachment.cgi?id=590473&action=edit
TTF of replacement glyph for Tamil Rupee Sign and attestations for the same

Hello Pravin. I wonder if instead of the glyph for debit sign, you can replace
the glyph of rupee sign which would look better and more in line with the (the
Unicode code chart and) attested shapes from scholarly works if replaced by the
attached glyph.

The attestations are from:

A Handbook of the Tamil Language, G U Pope, 1855
A Comprehensive Tamil and English Dictionary, M Winslow, Madras, 1962

Can you do this under this bug itself (its summary still says "one Tamil
symbol" despite debit sign going to a different bug) as it is not yet closed?
Or should I submit a separate bug?

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[Bug 807068] [ta_IN] Please fine-tune glyphs of Tamil numerals and one symbol in Lohit Tamil font

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https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=807068

--- Comment #10 from Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com&gt; ---
Thought our shape is not exactly matching with one provided by Unicode but
definitely yours designed is better than existing :)

Done the changes in git, Thank you !!

In between with the introduction of new Indian Rupee Symbol ₹, what is effect
on uses of Tamil Rupee Symbol?

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[Bug 807068] [ta_IN] Please fine-tune glyphs of Tamil numerals and one symbol in Lohit Tamil font

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https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=807068

Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com&gt; changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
             Status|MODIFIED                    |CLOSED
         Resolution|---                         |UPSTREAM
        Last Closed|                            |2012-06-14 08:04:51

--- Comment #11 from Pravin Satpute <psatpute(a)redhat.com&gt; ---
Closing, all the patches are committed in upstream.

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[Bug 807068] [ta_IN] Please fine-tune glyphs of Tamil numerals and one symbol in Lohit Tamil font

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https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=807068

--- Comment #12 from Fedora Update System <updates(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; ---
lohit-tamil-fonts-2.5.1-2.fc17 has been submitted as an update for Fedora 17.
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/lohit-tamil-fonts-2.5.1-2.fc17

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[Bug 807068] [ta_IN] Please fine-tune glyphs of Tamil numerals and one symbol in Lohit Tamil font

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https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=807068

Fedora Update System <updates(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
         Resolution|UPSTREAM                    |ERRATA

--- Comment #13 from Fedora Update System <updates(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; ---
lohit-tamil-fonts-2.5.1-1.fc16 has been pushed to the Fedora 16 stable
repository.  If problems still persist, please make note of it in this bug
report.

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[Bug 807068] [ta_IN] Please fine-tune glyphs of Tamil numerals and one symbol in Lohit Tamil font

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https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=807068

--- Comment #14 from Fedora Update System <updates(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; ---
lohit-tamil-fonts-2.5.1-2.fc17 has been pushed to the Fedora 17 stable
repository.  If problems still persist, please make note of it in this bug
report.

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