Proposal: Fedora G11N Steering Committee

[Pravin Satpute]

Hi All,

  I am sure, most of the people working with Fedora I18N, L10N from 5-6
year must be aware regarding Fedora L10N Steering Committee. [1]  As far
as i know this committee was active around 2009 and very effective.

 During Fedora G11N activity day discussions, we again felt there is
need for some kind of official committee to drive Fedora Globalization
activities. Fedora is growing faster with number of different domains
and G11N also need to adapt those changes quickly to remain on the track.

 For this purpose and in line with [1], we were thinking of Fedora
Globalization steering committee. I have created initial proposal for
it. [2] 

 Its open for feedback, please feel free to share other active members,
discuss in your respective language groups. This is just initial
proposal and i am sure, we can improve and make it more effective with
active participation.

Regards,
Pravin Satpute


1.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N_Steering_Committee?rd=L10N/SteeringCo...
2. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_G11N_Steering_Committee_Proposal
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[Andrei Fediukov]

Hello, I am a member of the team of russian-language localization, and a 
ambassador of fedora. my nickname redandrei. I'm interested in the 
spread of fedora, but do not understand the purpose of the project G11N.

please give an external definition of "globalization." and if you can, a 
description of the need to apply it to the project fedora, in your own 
words.
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On 16 December 2015 at 15:29, Andrei Fediukov <user15092011(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>  Hello, I am a member of the team of russian-language localization,
> and a
>  ambassador of fedora. my nickname redandrei. I'm interested in the spread of
>  fedora, but do not understand the purpose of the project G11N.
>
>  please give an external definition of "globalization." and if you can, a
>  description of the need to apply it to the project fedora, in your own
>  words. 
*
http://blogs.adobe.com/globalization/2012/04/12/globalization-myth-series...
* https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/G11N/Globalization_Proposal

I believe above both link can answer your queries.

Thanks,
Pravin Satpute
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[Andrei Fediukov]

>   From your earlier reply, I thought you are asking for some external
>  links with definition. :) 
I asked for is not so much external links (by the way there was no more 
relevant references, such as wikipedia or something? what do you draw 
inspiration?) as your own vision. on the wiki page g11n absolutely 
nothing is clear.

>  Please mention those problems. I think that will be good start to
> Form
>  translation group as suggested by Zoltan in earlier reply.
>  I would love to participate as a member of this group with you all :) 
a good start would be to solve the problems of localization, which I'll 
let you know if you do not know the current situation.

and, incidentally, to adhere to the rules of writing in the mail, no 
html and etc. but that such an approach to the existing rules, I'm 
afraid you've done even more trouble with your new project.

>  I am just opening up this for wider group for suggestion and
> feedback.
>  Positive/Negative feedback are welcome. I think this is way we can
>  learn and improve further. 
hope mailing list has become open and not closed and only for "members 
of the mailing list" (and then somehow does not agree with your words 
"open" and "broader groups") and I, as a subscriber of your mailing 
list, no longer have to specifically ask you to publish my message.

and why our correspondence does not enter the discussion page? You're 
hiding something?
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[Andrei Fediukov]

>  *
> http://blogs.adobe.com/globalization/2012/04/12/globalization-myth-series...
>  * https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/G11N/Globalization_Proposal
>
>  I believe above both link can answer your queries. 
The fact that I, more recently, doing fedora localization into Russian. 
and of course I have read your wiki page, but besides the general, 
"marketing" phrases I could not see anything.

what issues will decide this project? what are the goals for the project 
fedora. you can find the time to express their own vision and not to 
answer me a link 3 years ago?

I personally see the existing problems at the stage of localization, and 
you offer to the problems of old projects to add a new project. budget 
plan, assign positions. how it will solve the existing problems? I'm 
sure it will only create new ones, in the best case situation is not 
Change, apart from financial costs.
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[Zoltan Hoppar]

Hi,

I think this is a good start to have a translation steering commitee,
but myself I don't like the "globalization" name, but understand the
purpose. Would be nicer to rename it to Translation Steering commitee
- (TransCom, maybe).
I suggest to have a subdomain, and a portal like site under the fpo,
where every translaton can get an common entrypoint of informations.
Not only wiki links, and translation portal, else I think we should
provide new entries, avallable resources, and deadlines - allowances,
group creation methods, acceptance percentages, changes too.

Zoltan

2015-12-16 10:59 GMT+01:00 Andrei Fediukov <user15092011(a)gmail.com&gt;:
>  Hello, I am a member of the team of russian-language localization,
> and a
>  ambassador of fedora. my nickname redandrei. I'm interested in the spread of
>  fedora, but do not understand the purpose of the project G11N.
>
>  please give an external definition of "globalization." and if you can, a
>  description of the need to apply it to the project fedora, in your own
>  words.
>  --
>  trans mailing list
>  trans(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/[e-mail] 


-- 
PGP:  06853DF7
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On 16 December 2015 at 15:52, Zoltan Hoppar <hopparz(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote:
>  Hi,
>
>  I think this is a good start to have a translation steering commitee,
>  but myself I don't like the "globalization" name, but understand the
>  purpose. Would be nicer to rename it to Translation Steering commitee
>  - (TransCom, maybe). 
I liked your idea of having Translation steering/governance committee.
Translation is huge effort with many language sub-group and lots of
activity. I think we should proceed for it. We definitely need one.

At G11N level, i think L10N, I18N, Zanata and QA group should gather
and create bigger picture. We are actually doing it without any formal
group presently. So just want to have some formal group in Fedora for
this. As mentioned in proposal [1] couple of members from Translation
group can represent for input/things required from other groups in
G11N.

1. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_G11N_Steering_Committee_Proposal

>  I suggest to have a subdomain, and a portal like site under the fpo,
>  where every translaton can get an common entrypoint of informations.
>  Not only wiki links, and translation portal, else I think we should
>  provide new entries, avallable resources, and deadlines - allowances,
>  group creation methods, acceptance percentages, changes too. 
Right. We have to make this easy. We created presentation template in
recent FAD where new comers can quickly understand what things need to
be done. Noriko can share it with us.
At least easiest task is start with Wiki cleanup.


-
Pravin



>  Zoltan
>
>  2015-12-16 10:59 GMT+01:00 Andrei Fediukov <user15092011(a)gmail.com&gt;:
> > Hello, I am a member of the team of russian-language localization, and a
> > ambassador of fedora. my nickname redandrei. I'm interested in the spread of
> > fedora, but do not understand the purpose of the project G11N.
> >
> > please give an external definition of "globalization." and if you can, a
> > description of the need to apply it to the project fedora, in your own
> > words.
> > --
> > trans mailing list
> > trans(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> > http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/[e-mail]
>
>
>
>  --
>  PGP:  06853DF7
>  _______________________________________________
>  g11n mailing list
>  g11n(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>  http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/[e-mail]
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[Satyabrata Maitra]

+1 for Steering committee. Very much needed initiative.

Regards
Satya
Senior Quality Engineer
Red Hat Inc.
PNQ Center, India.
DID : [phone]
Cell : [phone] 
Fax : [phone]
***The wise man should restrain his senses like the crane and accomplish his purpose with
due knowledge of his place, time and ability***


----- Original Message -----
From: "Pravin Satpute" <pravins(a)fedoraproject.org&gt;
To: "Globalization" <g11n(a)lists.fedoraproject.org&gt;
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2015 3:16:56 PM
Subject: Proposal: Fedora G11N Steering Committee

Hi All,

  I am sure, most of the people working with Fedora I18N, L10N from 5-6
year must be aware regarding Fedora L10N Steering Committee. [1]  As far
as i know this committee was active around 2009 and very effective.

 During Fedora G11N activity day discussions, we again felt there is
need for some kind of official committee to drive Fedora Globalization
activities. Fedora is growing faster with number of different domains
and G11N also need to adapt those changes quickly to remain on the track.

 For this purpose and in line with [1], we were thinking of Fedora
Globalization steering committee. I have created initial proposal for
it. [2] 

 Its open for feedback, please feel free to share other active members,
discuss in your respective language groups. This is just initial
proposal and i am sure, we can improve and make it more effective with
active participation.

Regards,
Pravin Satpute


1.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N_Steering_Committee?rd=L10N/SteeringCo...
2. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_G11N_Steering_Committee_Proposal
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[Patrick マルタインアンドレアス Uiterwijk]

Hi,

>  
>   For this purpose and in line with [1], we were thinking of Fedora
>  Globalization steering committee. I have created initial proposal for
>  it. [2]  
Would it instead be an idea to instead of forming a new committee next to the current
Internationalization (i18n)
Fedora subproject, extend that subproject to g11n?
Otherwise, I would personally be a bit confused if I were to contribute to
internationalization: would that be the
i18n subproject, or the g11n subproject (which per definition as far as I understood
includes i18n)?

I do agree that a steering committee directing this subproject would be a good idea, but I
think that the proposal
is a bit underspecified at this moment: "To drive Fedora globalization by providing
governance and community
activity support for Internationalization, Localization and Zanata group." is a very
broad, marketing-sounding goal
in my opinion, and not very clear. What kinds of things do we want the FGSCo to be
governing?
Would that be things like working with QE to add test cases/release criteria, get more
contributors, organize
events, ...?
Probably best to expand a bit more, especially if you're also planning to raise
funds.

Also, I am doubtful whether some of these goals are in order for the g11n team,
especially: "Raising funds & Budget planning"
and "Event planning in region/country". I think we should probably ask help from
Ambassadors for these parts, since they
are supposed to have experience with these kinds of things. And while I realize that a lot
of g11n people might be ambassadors,
I am not sure whether we need another committee responsible for all this.  (note: this is
based on some expectations from me regarding
goals for this committee, see previous point).

>  
>   Its open for feedback, please feel free to share other active members,
>  discuss in your respective language groups. This is just initial
>  proposal and i am sure, we can improve and make it more effective with
>  active participation. 
Thank you for getting this process in motion, would be great to see g11n gain more ground
in Fedora!

With kind regards,
Patrick Uiterwijk
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On 16 December 2015 at 21:07, Patrick  マルタインアンドレアス  U
<puiterwijk(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote:
>  Hi,
>
> >
> >  For this purpose and in line with [1], we were thinking of Fedora
> > Globalization steering committee. I have created initial proposal for
> > it. [2]
>
>  Would it instead be an idea to instead of forming a new committee next to the current
> Internationalization (i18n)
>  Fedora subproject, extend that subproject to g11n? 
In fact i think that was idea earlier. I18n group is more active with
Fedora development life cycle. Merge two groups under G11N initiative
and synchronise plus points. i.e. More language experts in L10N and
more developers aligned with Fedora development life cycle in i18n.

But after executing it for 6 months, i feel though there are few
points to synchronize, there are also number of different topics which
just required sub-group level attention. More L10N and more i18n
expertise.

So rather than complete merge of activities, just collaborate on
common requirement points under G11N governance/committee group make
sense. I think that should be goal of G11N steering committee. As
given in proposal, it will have members from respective groups.

>  Otherwise, I would personally be a bit confused if I were to
> contribute to internationalization: would that be the
>  i18n subproject, or the g11n subproject (which per definition as far as I understood
> includes i18n)? 
With new structure. We will have full fledges groups i18n, l10n, QE.
Issues required collaboration or higher level attention should get
handled by people with different expertise where G11N group comes into
picture.

>  I do agree that a steering committee directing this subproject would be a good idea, but
> I think that the proposal
>  is a bit underspecified at this moment: "To drive Fedora globalization by providing
> governance and community
>  activity support for Internationalization, Localization and Zanata group." is a very
> broad, marketing-sounding goal
>  in my opinion, and not very clear. 
Agree. I think we need to work further on improving proposal. Added
sentence regarding its Draft status. :)

>  What kinds of things do we want the FGSCo to be governing?
>  Would that be things like working with QE to add test cases/release criteria, get more
> contributors, organize
>  events, ...?
>  Probably best to expand a bit more, especially if you're also planning to raise
> funds. 
+1 I saw Localization steering committee objectives was very well
explained. [1] We need to further work on it.

>  Also, I am doubtful whether some of these goals are in order for the g11n team,
> especially: "Raising funds & Budget planning"
>  and "Event planning in region/country". I think we should probably ask help
> from Ambassadors for these parts, since they
>  are supposed to have experience with these kinds of things. And while I realize that a
> lot of g11n people might be ambassadors,
>  I am not sure whether we need another committee responsible for all this.  (note: this is
> based on some expectations from me regarding
>  goals for this committee, see previous point). 
Good point. !!
For getting fund/budget for G11N activities, we need to work with
Council, Ambassadors/FAMSco group. I am active Ambassadors from last
one year and learned number of activities get planned during budgeting
process. G11N activities i.e. FAD, L10N sprints are presently missing
from it.

Ambassadors are experts in there country and with the help of
Ambassadors we can try to grow L10N community in respective regions.
We can plan and organize events like L10N sprint specifically in APAC
regions, there is good scope to grow community with such activity.

This is started happening already with different Ambassadors taking
active role in it.

> >
> >  Its open for feedback, please feel free to share other active members,
> > discuss in your respective language groups. This is just initial
> > proposal and i am sure, we can improve and make it more effective with
> > active participation.
>
>  Thank you for getting this process in motion, would be great to see g11n gain more ground
> in Fedora! 
I will rather say thanks for support :)
In present situation G11N will become successful only when we will
have active L10N community, like we had during 2009. We already have
number of active members and i am sure with all, will find way to make
L10N again active.

Regards,
Pravin Satpute
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